Calving heifers

[Nicky]

I think there are definitely correlations. Not sure what is going here this year, hopefully all will end well.
Uhlrichs bulls look awesome, wish they weren't so far away. Evans, that is interesting about them staying home. Should tell them, they could use it as a marketing tool

 

[Mountain Cowgirl]

I checked out the Peter Ulrich webpage and found it interesting. Back in the 1960s, some Hereford breeders were using small polled bulls with heifers for lower birth weight. My father had the idea that since our brood cows were larger and horned from west Texas range bloodlines (his Uncle) he could develop a large polled brood cow. Most polled cows in those days were small and breeding heifers was risky, but holding over an extra year wasn't penciling out with enough zeros after the leading digit.

We had an experimental herd of about a dozen big-boned old beginning broken mouthed horned registered Hereford cows that were risky to run another year on the Texas ranch where they had to cover a lot of acres just to get enough grass to survive and stay lanky.

It was assumed by everybody except my dad that his purchase of a small polled bull was a mistake and while he might get polled heifers they would be small and not acceptable as replacement brood cows and certainly not worth the risk of breeding as heifers.

My dad was right and the heifers from those old Texas cows were amazing. Big cows like their mamas but fuller bodies thanks to being surrounded by Colorado irrigated pasture grass and not having to walk far to fill up. They were all polled. The thing is when they were bred to a polled bull they produced small cows like the polled Herefords. Since we had the Texas ranch connection, we built a large herd of big-boned large polled brood cows and got any replacements by using that original plan. These polled large cows were bred to a horned bull and the calves (mostly horned) were sold at weaning right at the ranch.

We never had to pull a single calf from these polled replacement heifers due to size, even when bred to a large horned bull. I did turn a couple of breeches but out of several hundred births. I did pull or helped pull at least four a year from my grandpa's grade herd. He had a fascination with his white-faced blacks. The year he tried a polled Hereford bull with Angus cows was an ugly one involving vet visits and calf decapitation just to save the cows. I wish I could unsee that ugly year, but such is ranch life.

Some of our experimental herd with big horned range cows and a small polled bull. Look at the size of those yet to be weaned polled heifer calves. Nothing like their very small sire. They were average birth weight and fast-growing. The heifers were of such size at breeding time, they never had birthing problems.

 

[deff]

I think there are definitely correlations. Not sure what is going here this year, hopefully all will end well.
Uhlrichs bulls look awesome, wish they weren't so far away. Evans, that is interesting about them staying home. Should tell them, they could use it as a marketing tool

Perhaps the breed associations need to develop a "BSH" EPD (Bulls Staying Home)!

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

I have a motto of Moderation in Excess, I have found if you continually use excessively light birth weight bulls you will probably end up with heifers and cows that can't have a decent calf and if you use big heavy you will end up with calving troubles and size creep in your herd.
I like to use consistent sized bulls with moderate weights and from a long line of moderate cattle

 

[deff]

Back in the 70's, I inherited a reputation herd of Hereford cows from my Dad. We ran the calves over as yearlings in those days and sold bred heifers at a special sale in town each fall. We usually topped the market as we had a long list of repeat buyers. There were no EPD's and folks didn't record birth weights back then. All you could do was try to pick a smooth shouldered, small headed prospect when shopping for a "heifer bull". We got into a wreck one Spring where every calf had to be pulled and almost a third of the heifers went to the vet for cesareans. We were in the shed pulling on a very difficult calf one morning and the auction yard report concluded with "for those of you experiencing calving difficulties, we have a consignment of Longhorn bulls at this week's auction"! For the next three years, we never had to pull a calf but we couldn't get anyone to take our bred heifers at any price!

 

[Faster horses]

Back in the 60's, early 70's we leased from a Hereford based owner. So we ran Herefords.
The first black bulls we bought to breed them to caused us to have several cesareans in those heifers.
There was no EPD's or much of a history on those cattle. We hadn't had any c-sections on
the Hereford heifers, bred to Hereford bulls. We chalked it up to hybrid vigor.

Interesting that we had just bought our first gooseneck trailer. It didn't match our pickup which was in style back then. We weren't worried about the color at all so we just bought it and pulled it home. It was a Swan trailer, and it proved to be a great trailer; burnt orange in color. Good thing we did that because we had to take a heifer to town for a c-section that very night!!

Also, the way c-sections were done changed either from year-to-year or place to place. Back then the local vet took the calf out of the belly, had the heifers flat on their back with their legs tied!! Then in SW Montana, those vets chose to break the pelvis. Luckily we didn't have many c-sections to take to them. The other vet there took the calf out the side and that's how it was done after that-there and in SE Montana. I'm glad we got to the point we hadn't had a c-section for over 20 years.

 

[Faster horses]

Ben Lawson of Fablous Females said on genetics "one like the sire, one like the dam, and one in the middle."

That's why it takes years of dedication to get the cattle you want.

He's also Bovagene. I looked it up and it's interesting.

BOVAGENE - Only the very best of the Angus breed

Only the best of the Angus breed.

www.bovagene.com

 

[leanin' H]

I have a motto of Moderation in Excess, I have found if you continually use excessively light birth weight bulls you will probably end up with heifers and cows that can't have a decent calf and if you use big heavy you will end up with calving troubles and size creep in your herd.
I like to use consistent sized bulls with moderate weights and from a long line of moderate cattle

Amen. Moderation in excess!!!! When ya start chasing one or two traits that's when wrecks happen

And while there isn't a correlating EPD for it, how a calf is shaped is a huge factor in calving ease. Square shoulder blocky calves are trouble. I worked at a USU experimental ranch in the 80-90s. We weighed every calf out of 500 at birth. We had a Simm bull throw 11 calves over 95 pounds and never assisted a cow. Calves were shaped like hot dogs and just flew out

 

[Mountain Cowgirl]

Calves were shaped like hot dogs and just flew out

White Park cows are known for quick and easy births due to their narrow chest and long bodies. To my old eyes, they look like a bovine version of a Weiner dog. When one considers they birth at a high success rate even under harsh range conditions and have fast-growing calves, maybe a White Park bull might be a nice addition for breeding heifers.

 

[gcreekrch]

White Park cows are known for quick and easy births due to their narrow chest and long bodies. To my old eyes, they look like a bovine version of a Weiner dog. When one considers they birth at a high success rate even under harsh range conditions and have fast-growing calves, maybe a White Park bull might be a nice addition for breeding heifers.
View attachment 1637

No!

 

[Faster horses]

White Park cows are known for quick and easy births due to their narrow chest and long bodies. To my old eyes, they look like a bovine version of a Weiner dog. When one considers they birth at a high success rate even under harsh range conditions and have fast-growing calves, maybe a White Park bull might be a nice addition for breeding heifers.
View attachment 1637

Neighbor down the road in SW Mt had White Park, they looked nothing like these. They were blocky and they couldn't sell the calves.

 

[webfoot]

White Park cows are known for quick and easy births due to their narrow chest and long bodies. To my old eyes, they look like a bovine version of a Weiner dog. When one considers they birth at a high success rate even under harsh range conditions and have fast-growing calves, maybe a White Park bull might be a nice addition for breeding heifers.
View attachment 1637

They might work until it comes time to sell the calves. Then you get to give those spotted calves away.

 

[Evans]

I think there are definitely correlations. Not sure what is going here this year, hopefully all will end well.
Uhlrichs bulls look awesome, wish they weren't so far away. Evans, that is interesting about them staying home. Should tell them, they could use it as a marketing tool

Bull sales are just starting so I dont really know yet what bulls are selling for this year but Herefords generally sell for a couple of thousand less than an equivalent Angus bull. Peter sells to a lot of Americans so it must be worth it. I know you will gain on the $ exchange.
I'm betting if you called Peter 403 625 1o36. Well I dont want to speak for him but I would be surprised if he didn't help you a lot to make it happen. I'm pretty sure a large % of his bulls go south.
Peters bulls cross well with small framed Angus cows. Light birth weights with darn good weaning weights. You can get the same gains with large framed red Angus and charolais bulls but at a bigger feed cost.
Everybody seems to be getting away from horned cows because its more work at branding but my best cows mostly are the ones that had horns. My cows are mostly red angus,,,,a little old horned simmental ,plus a horned Hereford bull. My heifers are red baldies.
But if you cross a red Angus with a horned Hereford bull you won't get many calves with horns. It still seems if you breed the horns out of the cow your not going to have a good of a cow. Same thing with horses if you breed the feathers off them.haha just my opinion. I'm sure someone else has experienced the opposite. I'm not trying to start a fight

 

[Evans]

One other thing that I forgot. The more I feed my cows, the bigger the birth weight. I dont over feed and I dont like to give them a barley ration before the calve.

 

[leanin' H]

Exercise is a huge factor on calving ease. Heifers stuffed into a small pen and over fed make for a nightmare come calving time. A good walk does us all good

 

[Faster horses]

Bull sales are just starting so I dont really know yet what bulls are selling for this year but Herefords generally sell for a couple of thousand less than an equivalent Angus bull. Peter sells to a lot of Americans so it must be worth it. I know you will gain on the $ exchange.
I'm betting if you called Peter 403 625 1o36. Well I dont want to speak for him but I would be surprised if he didn't help you a lot to make it happen. I'm pretty sure a large % of his bulls go south.
Peters bulls cross well with small framed Angus cows. Light birth weights with darn good weaning weights. You can get the same gains with large framed red Angus and charolais bulls but at a bigger feed cost.
Everybody seems to be getting away from horned cows because its more work at branding but my best cows mostly are the ones that had horns. My cows are mostly red angus,,,,a little old horned simmental ,plus a horned Hereford bull. My heifers are red baldies.
But if you cross a red Angus with a horned Hereford bull you won't get many calves with horns. It still seems if you breed the horns out of the cow your not going to have a good of a cow. Same thing with horses if you breed the feathers off them.haha just my opinion. I'm sure someone else has experienced the opposite. I'm not trying to start a fight

We had a friend, (now deceased) who we called a great cowman. He lived in tough country and never overgrazed. He ran sheep and cattle; specifically Horned Hereford cattle for years. He maintained that if you breed the horns off a Hereford you take their brain away.