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Calving later?

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Big Swede

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For all of you that are calving later, "in sync with nature", what do you consider to be the ideal time to start? My usual pasture turn out date is about the middle of May when the cool season grasses have had time to get a decent start. Would that be the logical time to start calving? I'm located in southern SD so compare that to where you live. Thanks
 
The last time I was through your part of the country I was only 14 or 15, so I can't remember it well enough to compare to where we are. My best advice would be to go by what the deer, antelope and elk do. If they start the 1st of May or the 15th of May, it's for a reason. We went to June 1st when we made the switch a few years back, but the last couple years have started about the 20th of May. This seems to be the ideal time for our environment, according to Mother Nature. :wink:

P.S. - Our grasses start when yours do....mid-May. We will be trailing the cows out to the stockpiled pasture that they barely grazed in November/December, within 2 weeks. They'll stay on that through April before we move them to the calving grounds in the first part of May.
 
I am from midwest Sd. I would be nervous about May calving with the heat we can get from mid May on.
I have always figured the ideal time to calf had to with the time that works best for breeding. I calf in April. My turn out date is about June 25 which should be at or near the peak of the grass season. If you breed on all cool season grasses you may want to consider turning out a little earlier. Just look at the hay and if you should be right in the middle, stop and turn out the bulls. I know people who breed strictly on buffalo grass so they turn out about July 5. I wouldn't want to go later unless I had shade(I don't have shade for breeding or calving)
 
I didn't go quite that late. It may be better. The first of June is when Antelope fawn in this country. I did shift from Last week of February to March 20 last year, and left that alone for this year too. The loss in pounds per head was well compensated for in calf survival, health, and reduced feed consumpation. Even later might make sense.........You are on the right track I betcha!!
 
I calve in April. We usually have good grass by May 1st. I save high quality 2nd crop hay for calving season. I always felt that high protien in the hay made the most milk and that is what gave me the most growth in the calf. April weather here can be harsh. Nieghbors just North don't calve until May. That is too late as in a good year I will be cutting first crop hay last week in May.
 
One of the reasons I want to start calving later is so that I don't have to concentrate my herd in a confined area because of weather concerns. We can get wind and snow until the first of May some years. Calving on summer range will virtually eliminate scours, pnuemonia, and other diseases we encounter when we have to keep our cattle sheltered in the winter and early spring.

I know there can be some really nice weather in late April but my summer range isn't ready plus you still have weather issues. My uncle lost about half his calf crop one year when a blizzard hit the first week of May back in the 60's when he had already turned out to grass.

I really believe you could eliminate your scour guard shot on summer range, and at $3.00 plus per head that would be significant in itself. Another thing I would consider eliminating is tagging calves. Unless you are performance testing the commercial guy really doesn't need to tag calves in my opinion. The only reason I do now is to keep pairs paired up after a spring storm when they are calving on top of each other.

Maybe I'm just getting lazy but I'm really looking for ways eliminate labor and expense. What do ya think?
 
I don't think there is any "free lunch" no matter when a person calves. Just got off the phone with my brother-in-law, who ranches south of Valentine in the Sandhills. He has tried spring calving, summer calving, and fall calving. He has gone back to spring calving because of dissatisfaction with the other two seasons. I asked him what his optimum choice for a calving date would be, and he responded that he synchronizes his heifers to be due March 1st, with the cows due date on March 15th.

He liked the summer calving in some regards, but his breed back was terrible. He only calved two-year-olds, three-year-olds, and four-year-olds in this time period. The two-year-old started calving on May 15th, with the others beginning June 1st. The two-year-olds came up 40% empty trying to breed on late summer dried up grass. The three's were 20% empty and the four's were 15% empty. Calving troubles were less but when they happened there were usually more dire consequences. Often the cow perished along with the calf. Excessive heat was just as troublesome as spring blizzards. The second year of this trial had nearly the same results, so this was the last year of his "experiment."

He has also fall calved extensively through the years. Extra feed is involved in this procedure also. After trying these different options, my brother-in-law is back to calving in March. At least now he knows why he calves in March, and he isn't thinking the grass is greener on the other side of the season.

Scours can be just as big a problem on big pasture situations as they are in confined lots. Back in the 'sixties, our neighbor was calving in April on big pastures. He had a terrible scour problem and lost a lot of calves. Blizzards can come in April and May just as easily as they do in February and March. Dry cold snow is sometimes much more desirable for calving than is a cold wet spring rain, and the muddy conditions that come as a result.

Each ranch is different, and each ranch needs to be fine-tuned to when calving is best. Our ranch has lots of swampy boggy meadows that can't be grazed in the summertime anyway. The poor quality hay put up on some of this ground needs to be fed during the coldest part of the winter, or the cattle won't eat it.

The correct calving date for each ranch reminds me of super-duper corral plans that are found in some livestock publications. Sure, if a person had a level piece of ground with no other buildings or obstacles to worry about, these "ideal" corral plans would work just fine. In real life, there are existing barns and other buildings, tree groves, and uneven terrain that all need to be taken into account. Thus the ideal corral plans often get wadded up and tossed out the window. It is the same way on calving dates. What works well on one outfit might not work nearly so well on another. The secret is to adapt to the situations at hand.
 
Our heifers calve prior to the cow herd and the cows start around the 15th of March. We also have a fall calving herd that had the calving date sat back until Sept. One year they started in August and we lost around 4 calves to no apparent reason at all. Everyone wondered if it was the heat and the local vet confirmed our suspisions. After talking to the vet he said it was just to hot and those new babies couldn't handle the summer heat we were having.
 
The best advise I got was from Dr. Dick Diven...he said to calve on your peak forage. This matched the cows peak nutrient needs with your ranches ability to supply that need. Economics!!!

I'm 150 miles from the Gulf Coast. The past several years I have calved May/June with a few lates in July. The bull is out in late summer. I haven't noticed problems with heat.

Making a dramatic change in your operation, like changing calving dates, will create stress...stress causes problems. Don't expect your cows to have their reproductive cycle changed and not have problems. If you want less problems, move them slower...a couple of weeks a year. If you want to make a big change all at once, be prepared to take a hit. What helped me is that at the time I was moving calving season(even though I did it slow over about 5 years), I was losing rented pasture ground...I had to sell something anyway, so the opens made it easy. The cows that had the fertility and functional efficiency to make the move and not miss a beat have made me an efficient, care free herd. Cows that require your time and your money to do THEIR JOB, aren't going to make you a profit!!!!
 
Soapweed, I have heard about some issues with breed back when calving later, but in my situation I have a 12 pasture rotation where in a "normal" year the regrowth after the first pass through is fantastic. The first pass through the pasture lasts from the middle of May till the middle of July, and if we get enough rain for regrowth you can't even tell there were cattle in the pasture when the time comes for the second pass through the rotation. Of course if it doesn't rain no grazing plan works very well does it?

The heat issue does concern me a little but I won't have any frozen feet or ears! :wink: I appreciate all your comments both pro and con.
 
We calve our main cow herd starting May 15. It works absolutely great on the calving end. We used to loose several calves a year to over-eating, even though we vaccinated for it. Our first calf heifers seemed to always have health problems in their calves, and then we would loose some to the cold as well. We never really had any scour problems, but we did vaccinate the cows for it anyway. We checked the heifers at dark, 2:00 AM and then sunrise, and no night checks on the cows, weather permitting. But then we switched to summer calving and everything changed. We now have zero health problems in the calves as far as over eating, the first calf heifers calves don't have any health trouble anymore and we don't do any night checks on the heifers and only check the cows in the morning when we weigh and tag. We almost never haver to help a cow/heifer calve anymore either. Everything seems to go a whole lot better when they are out on open pasture by themselves eating green grass. The cows calve in a 7 quarter pasture and the heifers are in a half section. They can go off on their own and do it. Plus it seems that the first calf heifers breed back a little better, but I think that is due to the green grass being a better feed at calving than the hay we always had before.

I can only think of one time we had some heat issues on the new babies. A newborn didn't get up and suck right away and he got dehydrated. Luckily we cought it in time and got some elctrolytes in him.

Now, the downfall to calving this time of the year is we are breeding the cows in the dead of heat in the summer. We start AI'ing Aug. 1 and then turn the bulls in after that. The AI rates have dropped a little, as it is already hot, and then we synch them and you have 200 cows in heat in 3 days, riding and moving around. Their temp is up and it is also hard on our horses in this heat. The overall breeding % is down a little compared to what it was before, but then again, we used to breed for 60 days, now we breed for 45, so it may be that instead.

Another downfall, you won't get the 205 day weights out of your cows that you did when you were calving earlier. The grass gets harder and the cows milk production slows down when that calf really needs the milk.

Also, we have blown out a few udders as milk production is pretty high on the cows when the grass ir real green and powerful. Them 85 lbs calves just can't drink enough milk to keep the udders empty at this stage.

Overall, we are ahead of the game $ wise calving this time of the year. The main problem with it is on the commercial side, it is harder to market your calves as the months they go to kill the prices are ussually the poorest months. In the past we either retained them all the way through or sold our commercial calves as Naturals, but this year we just got them along over the winter and will be selling them as green grassers in about a month or so. This market seems to always be retty hot.
 
I'm probably under 50 miles north of Doug. I looked on my '07 calendar to see just for sure. I put my bulls out with both cows and heifers on July 17. So I should start calving the last week or so of April thru May and probably run into the first part of June.

I agree with Doug on the hot part of May, but IMO a little too warm sure beats too cold! Worst part of calving when it's hot is if the cows have access to surface water (which has not been a problem in this area for several years!) The cow will sometimes decide to calf too close to a dam or waterhole.


I'd still rather fight heat/ open water than cold/snow at calving time. I'm better set up now than in the past because I now have water piped in to every pasture. I can keep the cattle out of pasture with surface water if necessary.

Edit: a couple more things. On the calving difficulties it seems I have fewer problems than I used to. Maybe I'm getting better at selecting heifer bulls? :roll: I attribute the cattle being in good condition from being out on a bigger pasture and getting more exercise. Back when on the last year I still calved in the first part of March, it seemed I assisted fewer heifers than in previous years.

I attributed that to the fact the heifers were grazing all winter in one pasture and walking a mile every day for water in another pasture. Pipeline water tank access every 1/4 mile might make my cattle lazy.

Another factor might be than calf birthweights are lighter in cows that calve later. I've heard somewhere that fetal growth increases during cold weather when the cow ramps up her metabolism to keep warm in subzero temps.

On the breeding thing. I can't really say I've noticed a decrease in cow herd or bull fertility due to heat. I did not preg check in the fall. I sold one open cow who was in heat a month ago.


Out of 22 yearling heifers to be bred I had 3 came in heat over the winter. Sold 2 along with the cow and have one in to feed for the deep freeze. I had a 3 yr old black Angus bull on the heifers for 42 days and then sold him. Heat might have been a factor on the heifer deal. Had Hereford bulls on the mature cow herd, for more like 60 days.

Yes, I'm sure the heat does sometimes make it difficult for cows and bulls to get in the mooooood for love, but I still think where there is a will there is a way! :wink:
 
BRG, thanks for your thoughts. I synpathize with your overeating problems in the past. That's what I am going through right now. I vaccinate for it but it still claims about 1-2% of my calves each year. I'm really glad to hear that May calving might help that situation.

Another thing about marketing, the green grasser market is the one I'm shooting for so having lighter calves in the fall should help me there also. My program is usually to background on an agressive ration to sell 7-8 weights in Dec or Jan but with the price of corn and other feed, I think the market for light calves destined for grass will be hotter than ever.

I've seen so many times that 5 weight calves in Mar will dollar out about what 8 weight will. Why fight it? Produce what they want. I'll get off my soapbox now.
 
One word of caution about those switching to calving later there will be some attrition the first years as you sort through the cows finding ones that are sound enough physically and mentally to calve by herself on pasture. Udders blow up more because of poor structure than too much milk-there are cows that can't keep track of her calf-we found that when rotating pastures-GO SLOW or you will have some mishaps with mothering. Once you get those problems sorted through calving willbe noticeably easier than slopping through the mud and snow. We start in May-up in our country April can be a cold muddy hell.
 
Swede, I've had my share of overeating problems in the past that don't seem to bother now. I don't know if later calving has anything to do with it in my case or not. I vaccinate the calves at birth with Vision 7. Then they get another clostridial shot at branding time, and another at fall shot time.

If you want the most effective blackleg vaccine, give your calves Alpha 7 at birth. It's the best protection there is, but the oil based adjuvant is not tissue friendly. We discussed that somewhere else on this board recently.
 
Big Swede...

I think you know what you want to do. I think there have been positives and negatives brought forth. BRG and others bring up good points of marketing, heat, and milk/udder issues.

One concern I would have where we live is the quality of the natural water (that from dams, creeks, and springs) in late July/August. Our water quality seems to go straight to hell come the heat of the summer, especially in a couple of pastures. So much so, that when we start hauling water or move the cows to a pasture with a well you can see the hair coat on Mom and calves improve almost immediately. We are late March/April calvers, so don't generally breed then, so I can't tell you what happens to conception in those pastures, but my bet is that it wouldn't be good.

While we're taking about water...don't forget quantity either...those girls will be milking pretty decent in July/August and that production combined with the heat potential will spike the water consumption pretty significantly.

Just food for thought...take it or leave it.

Have a good day!

Cheers---

TTB :wink:
 
NR,

From my experience, the udder statement you made is not exactly accurate. Yes, poor udders will have more trouble. But we always have a few calves that only suck one teat and the other 3 ballon up until he decides to suck them as well. Sometimes this will last for a couple weaks. But once he does suck the other three and they go back to normal, if it didn't hurt her bag, and it will look good again. Perfect example is the cows photo below. Last spring after she calved her bag did not look pretty as, he only sucked the one and forgot about the other 3 and they ballooned up for a while, but luckily he decided to suck the others and it din't hurt her. But take a look at how good her udder structure is. That is what I meant before.

Margo.JPG


Thanks,
BRG
 
Bottom line BRG, is that you and Northern are both AWARE of monitoring the udders. That's the main thing. If that cows udder is lost to mastitis in a couple more years, then in my opinion she has an udder that can't take it. I would rather have a little less milk from a cow that produces until she's 16, than one who loses her bag by the time she's 9. Obviously you are aware of that and selecting females accordingly.

Funny thing about following Mother Nature's model.......we do it for a while and suddenly we realise that it actually works, and it's pretty tough to improve on, or the old girl woulda done it herself already. :wink:
 
Ya I agree. For what we are doing and the way we treat our cows, we probably have to much milk. But that is a tough thing to fix. Like all the rest of the EPDs, the milk is creeping higher and higher every year. When the average that use to be 12, now it is 17. I would like all of ours to be somewhere around 15, but it seems that the bulls that I select for by visual appearance, and mothers looks, productivity, & structure, the milk number always seems to be 20+. Not real sure how to change that trend. But, that really has nothing to do with the shape or structure of the udder.
 

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