Canada May Have Another Post Feedban Positive

[ranch hand]

Waiting for OT to answer Brad S question. Sure wouldn't want to let him off the hook on that or perhaps you care to answer Sandhusker. Do a comparison between the two countries for us and tell us where the problem is different in Canada than the US. :lol: :lol:

Divide the number of cattle by the number of occurances for both countries and compare the number, Bill.

Now, is it a loophole problem or a compliance problem?

Number of REPORTED occurances or can we somehow factor in the ones covered up in the US as well? Phyllis showed there was at least one. Canada has been transparent as glass through all our cases and it has been to our benefit, eg. Japan is taking Canadian beef and not American. Canadian packing capacity is steadily increasing so this has been a big break for us. The more R-Calf kicks dust the at USDA and keeps playing whatever BSE card they can find the longer it takes for markets to re-open to American product. Shortsighted? :lol: :lol: :lol:

The thing R-Calfers haven't learned has to do with glass houses. You ought not keep throwing stones. Like I said above, only a fool would believe the US won't have some post-feed ban cases as well. We will see the protectionists in Billings do a different dance then.

The only reason you are still sending beef to Japan is you haven't sent any bone with the meat. First time you do then you too will be banned again.

 

[ranch hand]

BSE in Six-Year-Old Dairy Cow "Highly Probable" Canadian Cattlemen Association Says
meatingplace.com

A six-year-old dairy cow from British Columbia is believed to be Canada's fifth case of BSE. Final test results will not be available until this weekend, but Dennis Laycroft, executive vice president, Canadian Cattlemen's Association, told Bloomberg that a confirmation was "highly probable." Canadian veterinary authorities said that the infection may have resulted from cross-contamination from poultry feed or other feed that may have contained protein from cattle.
If confirmed, the case would be significant because the animal was born at least two years after the imposition of a ban on cattle parts in feed meant for cattle, the suspected source of BSE infection.

The animal was discovered on a farm in Fraser Valley in British Columbia as part of the nation's BSE surveillance program, which has tested more than 100,000 high-risk cattle since 2003. The test was deemed inconclusive, and samples were sent to the National Centre for Foreign Animal Disease in Winnipeg, Manitoba.

CCA's Laycroft told Bloomberg that even if this younger animal tests positive, that result would be consistent with results in Europe, where cases were discovered well after feed bans were enacted, most due to contamination or improper cleaning of feed containers, as well as cross-contamination from feed meant for other animals or feed imported from countries with no feed bans.

I thought you didn't allow cattle into chicken feed or other feeds?

 

[Anonymous]

OT what sort of feedban loophole problems exist on either side of the border?

Brad S-- All the feedbans that were proposed by USDA, FDA, CFIA back in 2003 and 2004-- poultry litter, blood products, MBM in livestock feed, rendering plate waste, complete SRM removal and destruction, etc...I can't remember them all- but several of them that Canada thought they had were never implimented- same as the US- they were lobbied against by the renders, poultry industry, dairy industry, and Packers and never put into effect....

Go back and look at what the seven scientist group, and MacDonalds came out with for loopholes..........They spelled it out and did the report that Canada hadn't followed thru--Proposed but never implimented :???:

I agree that the US testing program appears to be a joke- but Canadas feedban apparently has been a sham also- either that or they better shut everything down and rethink the whole BSE transfer theory until they find out something.....

 

[Bill]

BSE in Six-Year-Old Dairy Cow "Highly Probable" Canadian Cattlemen Association Says
meatingplace.com

A six-year-old dairy cow from British Columbia is believed to be Canada's fifth case of BSE. Final test results will not be available until this weekend, but Dennis Laycroft, executive vice president, Canadian Cattlemen's Association, told Bloomberg that a confirmation was "highly probable." Canadian veterinary authorities said that the infection may have resulted from cross-contamination from poultry feed or other feed that may have contained protein from cattle.
If confirmed, the case would be significant because the animal was born at least two years after the imposition of a ban on cattle parts in feed meant for cattle, the suspected source of BSE infection.

The animal was discovered on a farm in Fraser Valley in British Columbia as part of the nation's BSE surveillance program, which has tested more than 100,000 high-risk cattle since 2003. The test was deemed inconclusive, and samples were sent to the National Centre for Foreign Animal Disease in Winnipeg, Manitoba.

CCA's Laycroft told Bloomberg that even if this younger animal tests positive, that result would be consistent with results in Europe, where cases were discovered well after feed bans were enacted, most due to contamination or improper cleaning of feed containers, as well as cross-contamination from feed meant for other animals or feed imported from countries with no feed bans.

I thought you didn't allow cattle into chicken feed or other feeds?

Canada and the US both have a ruminent to ruminent feed ban. Rendered ruminent protein can still be fed to non-ruminents in both countries.

 

[RoperAB]

OT what sort of feedban loophole problems exist on either side of the border?

Brad S-- All the feedbans that were proposed by USDA, FDA, CFIA back in 2003 and 2004-- poultry litter, blood products, MBM in livestock feed, rendering plate waste, complete SRM removal and destruction, etc...I can't remember them all- but several of them that Canada thought they had were never implimented- same as the US- they were lobbied against by the renders, poultry industry, dairy industry, and Packers and never put into effect....

Go back and look at what the seven scientist group, and MacDonalds came out with for loopholes..........They spelled it out and did the report that Canada hadn't followed thru--Proposed but never implimented :???:

I agree that the US testing program appears to be a joke- but Canadas feedban apparently has been a sham also- either that or they better shut everything down and rethink the whole BSE transfer theory until they find out something.....

Nobody around here ever fead any of these banned products to cattle because it was never cost efficient to do so.
Now if a small mixed farm has some cows, chickens and pigs, well I could see how cattle could get out and possible get into chicken feed or something like that by accident on occasion. But it would be a freak kind of accident.

 

[RoperAB]

BSE in Six-Year-Old Dairy Cow "Highly Probable" Canadian Cattlemen Association Says
meatingplace.com

A six-year-old dairy cow from British Columbia is believed to be Canada's fifth case of BSE. Final test results will not be available until this weekend, but Dennis Laycroft, executive vice president, Canadian Cattlemen's Association, told Bloomberg that a confirmation was "highly probable." Canadian veterinary authorities said that the infection may have resulted from cross-contamination from poultry feed or other feed that may have contained protein from cattle.
If confirmed, the case would be significant because the animal was born at least two years after the imposition of a ban on cattle parts in feed meant for cattle, the suspected source of BSE infection.

The animal was discovered on a farm in Fraser Valley in British Columbia as part of the nation's BSE surveillance program, which has tested more than 100,000 high-risk cattle since 2003. The test was deemed inconclusive, and samples were sent to the National Centre for Foreign Animal Disease in Winnipeg, Manitoba.

CCA's Laycroft told Bloomberg that even if this younger animal tests positive, that result would be consistent with results in Europe, where cases were discovered well after feed bans were enacted, most due to contamination or improper cleaning of feed containers, as well as cross-contamination from feed meant for other animals or feed imported from countries with no feed bans.

I thought you didn't allow cattle into chicken feed or other feeds?

Canada and the US both have a ruminent to ruminent feed ban. Rendered ruminent protein can still be fed to non-ruminents in both countries.

Is it still in the milk replacer for calves? I know the milk replacer we used to use was made in the States and it had I think it was either blood meal or bone meal in it from cattle.

 

[Anonymous]

OT what sort of feedban loophole problems exist on either side of the border?

Brad S-- All the feedbans that were proposed by USDA, FDA, CFIA back in 2003 and 2004-- poultry litter, blood products, MBM in livestock feed, rendering plate waste, complete SRM removal and destruction, etc...I can't remember them all- but several of them that Canada thought they had were never implimented- same as the US- they were lobbied against by the renders, poultry industry, dairy industry, and Packers and never put into effect....

Go back and look at what the seven scientist group, and MacDonalds came out with for loopholes..........They spelled it out and did the report that Canada hadn't followed thru--Proposed but never implimented :???:

I agree that the US testing program appears to be a joke- but Canadas feedban apparently has been a sham also- either that or they better shut everything down and rethink the whole BSE transfer theory until they find out something.....

Nobody around here ever fead any of these banned products to cattle because it was never cost efficient to do so.
Now if a small mixed farm has some cows, chickens and pigs, well I could see how cattle could get out and possible get into chicken feed or something like that by accident on occasion. But it would be a freak kind of accident.

All I can say is apparently if the feed theory is correct- someone (feed manufacturer, pig farmer, chicken farmer, hobby farmer, dairyman, whatever) isn't following it-- or there would not now be 3 POST feed ban positives....

How much consumer demand will have to be lost before the governments of both countries put the feedban rules that were originally proposed into effect? :???: ....

 

[Anonymous]

I thought you didn't allow cattle into chicken feed or other feeds?

Canada and the US both have a ruminent to ruminent feed ban. Rendered ruminent protein can still be fed to non-ruminents in both countries.

Is it still in the milk replacer for calves? I know the milk replacer we used to use was made in the States and it had I think it was either blood meal or bone meal in it from cattle.

Blood products are still allowed in Canada the last I saw- same as US :roll: .......Dairymen don't want to give up their milk replacer.......

 

[Silver]

If the scientists are correct and all it takes is a couple of grams of pre-feedban contaminated feed, then I would expect that the odd cow would be coming down with bse for years to come as the stuff could lurk in feed bins for years into the future.
Congrats once again to Canada's food safety programmes for catching another one, and keeping it out of the food chain. Sure makes me glad I allways ensure my steak at the restaurant is Canadian.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Blood products are still allowed in Canada the last I saw- same as US :roll:

This is the only real issue I have with R-Calf. Our feed bans are pretty much identical to yours, our livestock issues are virtually identical, and I really do firmly believe if your testing percentages matched ours, you'd likely find the same or close to same numbers of BSE positive animals, statistically speaking.

So I guess I just don't understand why you'd want to close your border, at least as far as safety issues go anyway.

I know I've posted about a CanAm herd, but I realize that our needs are somewhat different than yours (M-ID for example), so that may be a dream that will never be realized. However, I do think instead of fighting one another, we should be going up against the real enemies.

Rod

 

[Manitoba_Rancher]

I know there are a few brands of milk replacer on the Canadian market now that are based from actual milk that has been dehydrated. If there are still a few on the market that have bloodmeal or bonemeal in them they should get rid of them.

 

[Econ101]

OT what sort of feedban loophole problems exist on either side of the border?

Brad S-- All the feedbans that were proposed by USDA, FDA, CFIA back in 2003 and 2004-- poultry litter, blood products, MBM in livestock feed, rendering plate waste, complete SRM removal and destruction, etc...I can't remember them all- but several of them that Canada thought they had were never implimented- same as the US- they were lobbied against by the renders, poultry industry, dairy industry, and Packers and never put into effect....

Go back and look at what the seven scientist group, and MacDonalds came out with for loopholes..........They spelled it out and did the report that Canada hadn't followed thru--Proposed but never implimented :???:

I agree that the US testing program appears to be a joke- but Canadas feedban apparently has been a sham also- either that or they better shut everything down and rethink the whole BSE transfer theory until they find out something.....

Nobody around here ever fead any of these banned products to cattle because it was never cost efficient to do so.
Now if a small mixed farm has some cows, chickens and pigs, well I could see how cattle could get out and possible get into chicken feed or something like that by accident on occasion. But it would be a freak kind of accident.

Roper, the chicken feed problem is only a problem because of MBM in the poultry feed. Tyson does it because they have a whole lot of it from their cattle operations and a whole lot of chickens to feed. Cattle eating regular chicken feed without possible MBM in it is not really a concern. It is mostly on their large farms where they factory farm the poultry and the kind of contamination that was spoken of in the Australian article I posted on it.

 

[Brad S]

There's nothing to throw rocks back and forth across the border here. We can all agree we both need and want well devised and enforced animal protein feed bans, and any animal protein in any feed increases the risk of ol Nellie's calf getting exposed. The divide ain't between north and south ranchers, but cattle vs chicken. With a couple post ban exposures, all feeding of animal protein in production agriculture is suspect. Like someone pointed out, a little feed bridging and some feed may end up at the wrong farm.

 

[PORKER]

If the scientists are correct and all it takes is a couple of grams of pre-feedban contaminated feed, then I would expect that the odd cow would be coming down with bse for years to come as the stuff could lurk in feed bins for years into the future.

The other way is that the offspring are born with it and every herd should be either tested with a bse blood test when avaiable or a bse urine test which works now.

 

[flounder]

CANADIAN FEED POLICY AND BSE

Prepared by:
Frédéric Forge
Science and Technology Division
11 July 2005

TABLE OF CONTENTS

INTRODUCTION

USE OF ANIMAL PROTEIN IN FEED

REGULATIONS COVERING BSE-RELATED FEED CONTROL

A. The 1997 Feed Ban
B. Review of the 1997 Feed Ban
C. Proposed Amendments to the 1997 Feed Ban

FEED IMPORTS

A. Import Policy
B. Import Statistics

CONCLUSION: BANNING "CANNIBALISM" IN THE LIVESTOCK INDUSTRY?

APPENDIX 1 – CURRENT AND PREVIOUS BSE IMPORT POLICIES

APPENDIX 2 – DATA ON SELECTED CANADIAN IMPORTS, 1995-2003


A. The 1997 Feed Ban

In 1997, rendered protein products derived from almost all mammals were banned for use in ruminant feed under Part XIV of the Health of Animals Regulations. Rendered protein products, including bovine products, can still be used in animal feed for non-ruminants such as hogs and poultry that are not susceptible to BSE. The United States implemented a similar feed ban the same year.

Canadian producers may feed their ruminants only approved animal protein (products) such as pure porcine, equine, poultry and fish products. Protein that includes meat and bone meal from mammals other than pigs and horses is prohibited in ruminant feeds. Milk, blood, gelatin, rendered animal fats and their products have not been banned.


http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/library/PRBpubs/prb0506-e.htm

http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/library/PRBpubs/prb0506-f.htm


PRB 04-12E
CHRONOLOGY OF BSE-RELATED EVENTS
AND GOVERNMENT INITIATIVES

Prepared by:
Marc LeBlanc
Economics Division
Revised 20 September 2005
20 May 2003



http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/library/PRBpubs/prb0412-e.htm

http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/library/PRBpubs/prb0412-f.htm


MAD COW DISEASE
AND CANADA'S CATTLE INDUSTRY

Prepared by:
Frédéric Forge, Science and Technology Division
Jean-Denis Fréchette, Principal, Economics Division
Revised 12 July 2005

TABLE OF CONTENTS

INTRODUCTION

GENERAL INFORMATION ABOUT BSE

BSE IN CANADA BEFORE 2003
A. The 1993 Case
B. BSE Monitoring
C. Measures to Prevent the Emergence of the Disease in Canada….

MAY 2003: A NEW CASE OF MAD COW DISEASE
A. Results of the Investigation
B. Suggested Additional Measures

BSE: THE NORTH AMERICAN ISSUE

CONSEQUENCES FOR CANADA'S CATTLE INDUSTRY
A. Resuming Export Trade
1. The American Border
2. International Trade Rules: Complying with National Health Measures
B. Repositioning the Industry

CONCLUSION

CHRONOLOGY

APPENDIX: BEEF PRODUCT EXPORTS

see full text;


http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/library/PRBpubs/prb0301-e.htm


http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/library/PRBpubs/prb0301-f.htm



EFSA Scientific Report on the Assessment of the Geographical BSE-Risk (GBR)
of Canada
Adopted July 2004 (Question N° EFSA-Q-2003-083)
[Last updated 08 September 2004]



http://www.efsa.eu.int/science/tse_assessments/gbr_assessments/564/sr02_biohaz02_canada_report_v2_en1.pdf



Docket No. 03-080-1 -- USDA ISSUES PROPOSED RULE TO ALLOW LIVE ANIMAL
IMPORTS FROM CANADA


https://web01.aphis.usda.gov/BSEcom.nsf/0/b78ba677e2b0c12185256dd300649f9dOpenDocument&AutoFramed



Suppressed peer review of Harvard study October 31, 2002

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/oa/topics/BSE_Peer_Review.pdf



USA AND MEXICO EFSA Scientific Report on the Assessment of the Geographical
BSE-Risk (GBR)



http://www.efsa.eu.int/science/tse_assessments/gbr_assessments/565/sr04_biohaz02_mexico_report_v2_en1.pdf



http://www.efsa.eu.int/science/tse_assessments/gbr_assessments/573/sr03_biohaz02_usa_report_v2_en1.pdf


Subject: Substances Prohibited from Use in Animal Food or Feed, Proposed
Rule, Docket No. 2002N-0273 C-534 VOL 45 (PhRMA) and Entered On February 17,
2006
Date: March 10, 2006 at 5:23 pm PST

Marie A. Vodicka, PhD

Assistant Vice President

Biologics & Blotechnology

Scientlflc & Regulatory Affairs

SCIENCE & REG AFFAIRS

Division of Dockets Management (HFA-305)

Food and Drug Administration

5630 Fishers Lane, rrn . 1061

Rackville, MD 20862

Re: Substances Prohibited from Use in Animal Food or Feed, Proposed Rule,
Docket

No. 2002N-0273

February 14, 2006

Dear Sir or Madam :

The Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA) is
providing

comment to the proposed rules issued. ......

snip...

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dockets/02n0273/02n-0273-c000534-01-vol45.pdf


Subject: Docket No: 2002N-0273 (formerly Docket No. 02N-0273) Substances
Prohibited From Use in Animal Food and Feed PAUL BROWN
Date: January 20, 2006 at 9:31 am PST

December 20,2005

Division of Dockets Management (HFA-305)

Food and Drug Administration

5630 Fishers Lane

Room 1061

Rockville, MD 20852

Re: Docket No: 2002N-0273 (formerly Docket No. 02N-0273)

Substances Prohibited From Use in Animal Food and Feed

Dear Sir or Madame:

As scientists and Irecognized experts who have worked in the field of TSEs
for

decades, we are deeply concerned by the recent discoveries of indigenous BSE
infected

cattle in North America and appreciate the opportunity to submit comments to
this very.........

snip...

Given that BSE can be transmitted to cattle via an oral route with just .OO1
gram of infected tissue, it may not take much
infectivity to contaminate feed and keep the disease recycling. ........


http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dockets/02n0273/02n-0273-c000490-vol40.pdf


December 19, 2005

Division of Dockets Management (HFA-305)

Food and Drug Administration

5630 Fishers Lane

Room 1061

Rockville, MD 20852

Re: Docket No: 2002N-0273 (formerly Docket No. 02N-0273)

Substances Prohibited From Use in Animal Food and Feed

Dear Sir or Madame:

The McDonald's Corporation buys more beef than any other restaurant in the
United States. It is

essential for our customers and our company that the beef has the highest
level of safety.

Concerning BSE, ...........

snip.......

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dockets/02n0273/02n-0273_emc-000134-02.pdf



THE SEVEN 1/2 SCIENTIST REPORT ON BSE/TSE ***


http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dockets/02n0273/02n-0273-EC244-Attach-1.pdf


***

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OPPDE/Comments/03-025IFA/03-025IFA-2.pdf



Docket No. 2003N-0312 Animal Feed Safety System

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dockets/03n0312/03N-0312_emc-000001.txt


Docket Management Docket: 02N-0273 - Substances Prohibited From Use in

Animal Food or Feed; Animal Proteins Prohibited in Ruminant Feed

Comment Number: EC -10

Accepted - Volume 2


http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/03/Jan03/012403/8004be07.html



PART 2


http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/03/Jan03/012403/8004be09.html


http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/01/slides/3681s2_09.pdf



Asante/Collinge et al, that BSE transmission to the 129-methionine

genotype can lead to an alternate phenotype that is indistinguishable

from type 2 PrPSc, the commonest _sporadic_ CJD;



http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/03/slides/3923s1_OPH.htm


TSS

 

[flounder]

April 13, 2006, 10:36PM
Possible case of mad cow roils markets
Tentative results in Canada cause investors to worry


By JERRY BISECT and BOB BURGDORFER
Reuters News Service

CHICAGO - A possible new case of mad cow disease in Canada rattled the U.S. cattle markets Thursday because the animal in question was born after a 1997 feed ban that was enacted to prevent the disease.

Investors fretted that the discovery, which could be the fifth native-born case of the brain-wasting bovine spongiform encephalopathy in Canada, could shake consumer confidence in the $200 billion U.S. beef and cattle production industry.

Canadian officials said earlier Thursday that the suspected case was in a 6-year-old Holstein dairy cow in British Columbia that did not enter the human food chain. Final test results are expected Sunday.

Officials said the infected cow was born in April 2000, after the Canadian government prohibited cattle from eating feed containing ruminant protein. The ban was put in place by the U.S. and Canada in 1997.

Since Canadian beef and cattle are shipped into the United States, there were concerns that the finding could affect demand for all beef.

U.S. consumers have continued to buy beef despite three mad cow cases in the United States and four previously confirmed cases in Canada.

The United States Agriculture Department said it has not drawn any conclusions regarding Canada's suspected case.

"Should it be positive, we're prepared to send a team to Canada to help with the epidemiological investigation," USDA spokesman Ed Lloyd said.

Mad cow disease, or BSE, is a fatal brain disease in cattle. Scientists believe humans can contract a similar fatal disease by eating infected material from contaminated animals. The disease is not contagious in cattle, but is believed to be spread by feed made from animal parts, called meat and bone meal.

The National Cattlemen's Beef Association, a cattle producers trade group, said Thursday's news should not affect beef trade between the United States and Canada.

However, R-CALF-USDA, another cattle trade group, argued that Canada's safety measures are not sufficient and that the U.S. should do more to protect consumers here.

At the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, live cattle futures turned lower Thursday after the suspected Canadian case was announced, traders at the exchange said.

Cattle for June delivery closed at 75.275 cents per pound, down 0.375 cent for the day. The contract had peaked Thursday at 76.325 cents.



http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/3793007.html


> "Should it be positive, we're prepared to send a team to Canada to help with the

> epidemiological investigation," USDA spokesman Ed Lloyd said.


:lol2: :lol2: :lol: :? :shock: :cry2: :help:


that's like the blind leading the blind, or dumb and dumber goes to Canada. ...TSS

 

[Anonymous]

Since Canadian beef and cattle are shipped into the United States, there were concerns that the finding could affect demand for all beef.

Easy solution...Implement the M-COOL law and let the consumers have the choice....

 

[Mike]

"Should it be positive, we're prepared to send a team to Canada to help with the epidemiological investigation," USDA spokesman Ed Lloyd said.

Kind of like sending Barney Fife to investigate Enron. :shock: :???: :lol:

 

[Ralph]

Do you think it is possible that 6 years ago, the dairy farmer did not realize the importance of reading feed labels and to not feed chicken feed to Dairy animals? I bet he has known the importance for the last 3-4 years

Today, ruminant by-products are not handled in plants that make ruminant feed, in Canada

Milk replacers are blood free in Canada, and some feed companies even make NAPF, (Non-animal Protein/Fat) feeds for Ruminants.

it's funny that some blame producer choices on the existence of loopholes, instead of blaming the producer for breaking existing laws and regulations.

 

[Bill]

If the scientists are correct and all it takes is a couple of grams of pre-feedban contaminated feed, then I would expect that the odd cow would be coming down with bse for years to come as the stuff could lurk in feed bins for years into the future.

The other way is that the offspring are born with it and every herd should be either tested with a bse blood test when avaiable or a bse urine test which works now.

What countries have accepted and are currently using a urine test for BSE?