Big Muddy rancher
Well-known member
Strange, Stan isn't president anymore.
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Canada Quarantines Possible BSE Farm; Industry Worried
- Thread starter Big Muddy rancher
- Start date
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Anonymous
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Big Muddy rancher said:Strange, Stan isn't president anymore.
Maybe they forgot to tell Old Stan...
Brad S
Well-known member
This should concern US cattlemen as well as Canadian cattlemen. It evokes questions about bse origin being something other than our currently held beliefs. A 4 year old cow would be springing with her third calf, so we're only suspecting 2 calves that may or may not be hot. The real worry is if we don't have transmission method in a box.
Brad S said:This should concern US cattlemen as well as Canadian cattlemen. It evokes questions about bse origin being something other than our currently held beliefs. A 4 year old cow would be springing with her third calf, so we're only suspecting 2 calves that may or may not be hot. The real worry is if we don't have transmission method in a box.
I will totally agree with you on that, Brad.
Sandhusker
Well-known member
Brad S said:This should concern US cattlemen as well as Canadian cattlemen. It evokes questions about bse origin being something other than our currently held beliefs. A 4 year old cow would be springing with her third calf, so we're only suspecting 2 calves that may or may not be hot. The real worry is if we don't have transmission method in a box.
If we don't have transmission nailed down, what the heck are we doing trading with BSE positive countries?
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Anonymous
Guest
Sandhusker said:Brad S said:This should concern US cattlemen as well as Canadian cattlemen. It evokes questions about bse origin being something other than our currently held beliefs. A 4 year old cow would be springing with her third calf, so we're only suspecting 2 calves that may or may not be hot. The real worry is if we don't have transmission method in a box.
If we don't have transmission nailed down, what the heck are we doing trading with BSE positive countries?
AMEN- If it isn't feed- than how do we know it can't be passed from cow to cow :???: Some TSE studies indicate possibly urine as a transmission agent for CWD...Looks to me like for every question we had about BSE, we now have about 10 more- and still no solid answers.......
RobertMac
Well-known member
Oldtimer said:Sandhusker said:Brad S said:This should concern US cattlemen as well as Canadian cattlemen. It evokes questions about bse origin being something other than our currently held beliefs. A 4 year old cow would be springing with her third calf, so we're only suspecting 2 calves that may or may not be hot. The real worry is if we don't have transmission method in a box.
If we don't have transmission nailed down, what the heck are we doing trading with BSE positive countries?
AMEN- If it isn't feed- than how do we know it can't be passed from cow to cow :???: Some TSE studies indicate possibly urine as a transmission agent for CWD...Looks to me like for every question we had about BSE, we now have about 10 more- and still no solid answers.......
Some have always had questions on "currently held beliefs". How can you nail down transmission if cause hasn't been nailed down?
bse-tester
Well-known member
Oldtimer wrote:
Have you ever watched buck deer sniff and lick the back-end of the does when the Rut is on?? Elk and Moose do it, as do Bison, most cattle and hey, even horses. That has been cited as a direct route for transmission by us for some time now - but again, the Government officials, including the so-called expert Government employees, failed to catch on and still hide their heads in the sand or some other place the sun simply will not shine???
I have sat and watched wild Elk push their noses through the game-fence to lick the butt-end of hot cows and have watched them nose to nose through the same fence. It is not rocket science!!
AMEN- If it isn't feed- than how do we know it can't be passed from cow to cow Some TSE studies indicate possibly urine as a transmission agent for CWD...Looks to me like for every question we had about BSE, we now have about 10 more- and still no solid answers.......
Have you ever watched buck deer sniff and lick the back-end of the does when the Rut is on?? Elk and Moose do it, as do Bison, most cattle and hey, even horses. That has been cited as a direct route for transmission by us for some time now - but again, the Government officials, including the so-called expert Government employees, failed to catch on and still hide their heads in the sand or some other place the sun simply will not shine???
I have sat and watched wild Elk push their noses through the game-fence to lick the butt-end of hot cows and have watched them nose to nose through the same fence. It is not rocket science!!
bse-tester said:Oldtimer wrote:
AMEN- If it isn't feed- than how do we know it can't be passed from cow to cow Some TSE studies indicate possibly urine as a transmission agent for CWD...Looks to me like for every question we had about BSE, we now have about 10 more- and still no solid answers.......
Have you ever watched buck deer sniff and lick the back-end of the does when the Rut is on?? Elk and Moose do it, as do Bison, most cattle and hey, even horses. That has been cited as a direct route for transmission by us for some time now - but again, the Government officials, including the so-called expert Government employees, failed to catch on and still hide their heads in the sand or some other place the sun simply will not shine???
I have sat and watched wild Elk push their noses through the game-fence to lick the butt-end of hot cows and have watched them nose to nose through the same fence. It is not rocket science!!
It seems some of the vets we have are city born and city raised. Anyone watching a cow coming in heat and a persistent bull would see the same thing.
It just blows their SRM removal theory of safety. Don't let truth get in the way of a mind made up!!!! :roll: :roll:
I have a question for you if BSE is passed on by a bull sniffing a cow then why do we not find more bulls with the disease. One thing I have noticed is that all the cases in Canada young and old were COWS.And note it is one per herd in Canada's cases. So Why haven't bulls contracted it if they are the ones sniffing? and why isn't there more than one per herd if urines the route of transmission? :?
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Anonymous
Guest
Tam said:I have a question for you if BSE is passed on by a bull sniffing a cow then why do we not find more bulls with the disease. One thing I have noticed is that all the cases in Canada young and old were COWS.And note it is one per herd in Canada's cases. So Why haven't bulls contracted it if they are the ones sniffing? and why isn't there more than one per herd if urines the route of transmission? :?
How many people keep bulls until they get old-- I know around here few keep them much past 4 years...
Big Muddy rancher
Well-known member
Oldtimer said:Tam said:I have a question for you if BSE is passed on by a bull sniffing a cow then why do we not find more bulls with the disease. One thing I have noticed is that all the cases in Canada young and old were COWS.And note it is one per herd in Canada's cases. So Why haven't bulls contracted it if they are the ones sniffing? and why isn't there more than one per herd if urines the route of transmission? :?
How many people keep bulls until they get old-- I know around here few keep them much past 4 years...
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Lots of bulls make it to twenty months
Big Muddy rancher
Well-known member
Hey BSE TESTER, how many animals have you diagnosed with your test for BSE and at what age?
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Anonymous
Guest
Big Muddy rancher said:Oldtimer said:Tam said:I have a question for you if BSE is passed on by a bull sniffing a cow then why do we not find more bulls with the disease. One thing I have noticed is that all the cases in Canada young and old were COWS.And note it is one per herd in Canada's cases. So Why haven't bulls contracted it if they are the ones sniffing? and why isn't there more than one per herd if urines the route of transmission? :?
How many people keep bulls until they get old-- I know around here few keep them much past 4 years...
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Lots of bulls make it to twenty months
Yeah- but what are there- 30-40 cows to every old bull?
Lets see Canada has now found 9 BSE cases -8 origin cases, which means you could find 22-32 more positive cows before the odds say one has to be a bull...
Just a thought Tam, but it could be just bulls or bucks, whatever, are just carriers to other animals. (not that I believe much about these other theories) but this would mean though, once one cow has it it should spread around teh entire herd.
BINGO. IF one has it and it is the cows urine on a bull that spreads it then why aren't we finding herdmates also infected? Shouldn't every cow that that bull bred after sniffing the infected cow contract it from him? :? If it is the urine and the cows are in the same pasture why aren't they picking it up by just grazing on the grass that an infected cow pees on?Cattleman said:Just a thought Tam, but it could be just bulls or bucks, whatever, are just carriers to other animals. (not that I believe much about these other theories) but this would mean though, once one cow has it it should spread around teh entire herd.
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Anonymous
Guest
Tam said:BINGO. IF one has it and it is the cows urine on a bull that spreads it then why aren't we finding herdmates also infected? Shouldn't every cow that that bull bred after sniffing the infected cow contract it from him? :? If it is the urine and the cows are in the same pasture why aren't they picking it up by just grazing on the grass that an infected cow pees on?Cattleman said:Just a thought Tam, but it could be just bulls or bucks, whatever, are just carriers to other animals. (not that I believe much about these other theories) but this would mean though, once one cow has it it should spread around teh entire herd.
Tam- On the same line then- why aren't all the herdmates and cows in this herd infected? Did only that one cow get the infected feed and none of the others :???: Or is it because of the amount of the infected material and the stage of an animals life when exposed-- whether it be feed or urine or whatever? Kathy's shooting uranium depleted shells over the corral is almost as sound as USDA's and CFIA's theories anymore :wink: :lol:
Anyway there were/are too many questions arising for USDA to have dropped/ be dropping the firewalls and the safeguards they had developed over years of research, until they get some more solid answers...
bse-tester
Well-known member
Good question Tam but the truth of the matter is that most ranchers do not keep their bulls too long - at least the ones I know and it is entirely possible that if an infected bull is taken to the slaughterhouse, he would probably pass through the entire plant without anyone knowing he was a carrier due to the fact that he probably was not displaying any symptoms of BSE. Much the same way that any cow would that was also not displaying symptoms - but most people do not want to hear that possibility and simply discount it as impossible!! Also, keep in mind that for that bull to actually find a hot female that is actually carrying and discreeting the infection is quite rare so the chances of it happening are slim to begin with.
But how many bulls have sniffed and licked an infectious cow and then made it through the plant to the table??? That is the question that should be asked. If we can find PrPsc in membranes from the vulva, the nose, the tongue and various other parts of the animal including meat, organs, brain, urine and blood, the routes of transmission may well be many more than we can imagine! Imagine a cow that is carrying the PrPsc and has not yet displayed any symptoms but is urinating all over the concrete floor in the milk barn, or in the pasture, or in the pond or dug-out and may even be bleeding from too close a contact with the barb-wire and is rubbing against or the wound is being licked by another cow - it is almost impossible to imagine the many different means of transmission of PrPsc from one animal to another.
But how many bulls have sniffed and licked an infectious cow and then made it through the plant to the table??? That is the question that should be asked. If we can find PrPsc in membranes from the vulva, the nose, the tongue and various other parts of the animal including meat, organs, brain, urine and blood, the routes of transmission may well be many more than we can imagine! Imagine a cow that is carrying the PrPsc and has not yet displayed any symptoms but is urinating all over the concrete floor in the milk barn, or in the pasture, or in the pond or dug-out and may even be bleeding from too close a contact with the barb-wire and is rubbing against or the wound is being licked by another cow - it is almost impossible to imagine the many different means of transmission of PrPsc from one animal to another.
bse-tester
Well-known member
Big Muddy wrote:
Hey Big Muddy, our test was developed in the UK by a scientist who worked for the Ministry of Agriculture, Food & Fisheries for many years. During the time of the BSE crisis over there, I am told it was used for the diagnosis of approxiamtely 60 cases of Bovine BSE, ranging in age from 2 years old to 9 years old and approximately 6 goat infections and numerous Scrapie infections in sheep and that these cases proved to be positive for PrPsc when confirmed by the VLA. Of course, the test was not recognized by the authorities at the time and now we are moving towards validation.
The VLA Labs in Weybridge have agreed to consider suppling our validation process with urine (subject to supplies on hand) from the BSE crisis in England. The hold a vast amount of Scrapie infected urine and some BSE infected urine taken from the carcasses of some of the infected cattle at the time of slaughter prior to incineration.
Also, it was used to detect PrPsc in 19 CJD cases and one (1) Alzheimer's case, conducted at the United States National CJD Surveillance Center in Cleveland, Ohio, within the past 5 years.
Hey BSE TESTER, how many animals have you diagnosed with your test for BSE and at what age?
Hey Big Muddy, our test was developed in the UK by a scientist who worked for the Ministry of Agriculture, Food & Fisheries for many years. During the time of the BSE crisis over there, I am told it was used for the diagnosis of approxiamtely 60 cases of Bovine BSE, ranging in age from 2 years old to 9 years old and approximately 6 goat infections and numerous Scrapie infections in sheep and that these cases proved to be positive for PrPsc when confirmed by the VLA. Of course, the test was not recognized by the authorities at the time and now we are moving towards validation.
The VLA Labs in Weybridge have agreed to consider suppling our validation process with urine (subject to supplies on hand) from the BSE crisis in England. The hold a vast amount of Scrapie infected urine and some BSE infected urine taken from the carcasses of some of the infected cattle at the time of slaughter prior to incineration.
Also, it was used to detect PrPsc in 19 CJD cases and one (1) Alzheimer's case, conducted at the United States National CJD Surveillance Center in Cleveland, Ohio, within the past 5 years.
