Canadian Consumers have a Choice for their Health!!!

[Econ101]

Again, This isn't anti canadian or imports. If you think it is than I apologize. I am just saying that people did ask, sometimes more than once..(Especiall with that dang Chicken). The biggest complaints about price back than were the ranchers that came in and wondered how we were charging 16.99 or whatever it was a pound for CAB angus tenderolin when prices at the ranch were so crappy (1999) But heck, as I said, things change.

Ranchers coming in to a store asking about a product they raise is not typical consumers.

How many ranchers would a store in L.A. get?

It is sad to realize that a rancher wouldn't know there is only one small tenderloin per animal and in 1999 only 15% of the black cattle slaughtered were accepted for CAB.

Comparing the most expensive cut on a steer to the farmgate price is pretty stupid.

Jason, I hate to burst your knowledge bubble again, but there are two tenderloins, one on each half of a beef not one. Perhaps your meat cutteer is doing the "butcher's cut". You might want to check that out.

On your porter house steaks it will be the small piece seperated by the bone if it is not cut out.

 

[Jason]

Point taken, but does it change the rest of my post?

 

[jdst]

Get this through your head, once and for all OT: When beef leaves here, its PROUDLY stamped Product Of Canada. Its not our fault that your processors remove the label.

Rod

I know I'm a day or so behind here, but I can't let this go unchanllenged...

Cargill & Tyson bring beef into Canada in their Alberta plants, do a little repackaging and it goes to stores in "Product of Canada" boxes. Some of it's from Uruguay.

What you refer to as "proudly stamped" I would consider "fraudulently stamped".

Is there anyone selling beef in Canada that's traceable? YES!!! Check out http://www.pctb.coop/tracing.asp. I bought meat in packages numbered HVP-804 and HVP-942. You can use those numbers. The first one seems to give more information, and if you have the time to waste (I did!) you can cut-and-paste the parents name and find out about them, too.

Now I'll read the rest of the posts...

 

[Northern Rancher]

Last guy I saw that was this twisty was Toller Cranston-OT reminds of chicken little with his constant fear mongering posts-except I thick Chicken Little is probably a bit more rational. When U'S ranchers have you and your fellow R-Calfer's as friends who needs enemies.

 

[jdst]

And now that most of y'all think I can't spelled 'unchallenged' I'll even admit to previewing the post.

If you guys are really 'ranchers' - which is a fancy name for farmers - which is an honourable profession if ever there was one, then you should stop with the nationalistic bull s---.

You are being divided and conquered. Unless and until you can get your collective act together and agree to cooperate with each other, you will remain divided and conquered, and you will remain serfs on the land which you think you own, (but you don't if you have a mortgage or assignment in a loan!) and you will work for 'wages', (which, in reality, you do!) that shrink each year.

You are being played, gents. By a bunch of bit---s that will NEVER put out!

You want to get some control over an industry you spend your blood sweat and tears labouring in and never get off the bottom rung? Stop being fooled into voting on stupid principles like "same sex marriage" and "wars on poverty", no, I mean "drugs", no I mean "terror" and vote for someone who will help you survive.

There's nothing magic about misdirection.

 

[Mrs.Greg]

jdst...go take your meds...while your doing that try posting links that work :roll:

 

[jdst]

Mrs. Greg - I have taken my meds. But then I get to chatting with my "farmer friends" and I get right riled again. It angers me to see how badly treated honest people are.

Your first name better not be Gerry!!! (No matter how it's spelled.)

And the link would have worked it I hadn't put a period after it - the software on the board included it with the cut and pasted link. But, here it is on a line by itself:
http://www.pctb.coop/tracing.asp

Since it hadn't changed colour I didn't know it had made a link. Itested this one in 'preview'.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

What you refer to as "proudly stamped" I would consider "fraudulently stamped".

Point taken jdst, but it still leaves Canada stamped "Product of Canada" and its STILL the end processor in the US who doesn't inform his consumers that its come from Canada. We're being blamed by guys like OT for not wanting to label beef, yet we label it all the time. My point is that guys like OT need to deflect the blame back where it belongs: his own countrymen and his own processors. I'm just tired of his Canada bashing that has absolutely no basis in reality. I've posted time and again how producers in the US and Canada need to band together to fight whats happening in the beef market, but as long as protectionist fools like OT continue to spread lies and disinformation, it will never happen. OT is the multinational packers best friend.

Rod

 

[Mrs.Greg]

Mrs. Greg - I have taken my meds. But then I get to chatting with my "farmer friends" and I get right riled again. It angers me to see how badly treated honest people are.

Your first name better not be Gerry!!! (No matter how it's spelled.)

And the link would have worked it I hadn't put a period after it - the software on the board included it with the cut and pasted link. But, here it is on a line by itself:
http://www.pctb.coop/tracing.asp

Since it hadn't changed colour I didn't know it had made a link. Itested this one in 'preview'.

Maybe I jumped on you too quick and too hard...happens around here sometimes too much canuck bashing going on....thing is also don't like "rancher is a fancy name for farmer" WRONG!!

Gerry?????

 

[Anonymous]

What you refer to as "proudly stamped" I would consider "fraudulently stamped".

Point taken jdst, but it still leaves Canada stamped "Product of Canada" and its STILL the end processor in the US who doesn't inform his consumers that its come from Canada. We're being blamed by guys like OT for not wanting to label beef, yet we label it all the time. My point is that guys like OT need to deflect the blame back where it belongs: his own countrymen and his own processors. I'm just tired of his Canada bashing that has absolutely no basis in reality.

Rod

Rod- I know it is not the Canadians doing the fraudulent labeling... I'm quite aware of who is performing it and the reason (profiteering) its being done...And I'm quite aware these same multi-nationals are the ones that have worked to kill any laws to change the practice....

But I'm also aware of why many Canadians have criticized and openly opposed both on here and at the M-COOL hearings the current M-COOL law and any truth in labeling laws changes that have/will be proposed-- they have sadly become profiting co-conspirators in the fraud....They have a very solid motive for never seeing that consumers are told the truth- and its all financial.... Canadian beef, in the 12 years of NAFTA, has lost any identity it had and is not as marketable unless it's passed off as US beef- and for the last 5 years what identity it had, has become questionable... Many in the US did not even know they have eaten Canadian meat and if it hadn't been for BSE and the border closure issue few would have become aware it had been possible....This financial motive- and Canadas lack of any legitimate export market outside the US makes most Canadians arguments against truth in labeling and our M-COOL law dubious if not outright deceitful in intent...

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

But I'm also aware of why many Canadians have criticized and openly opposed both on here and at the M-COOL hearings the current M-COOL law and any truth in labeling laws changes that have/will be proposed

You may want to change that to "some" Canadians. Most Canadians don't really care whether you want to label our beef or not. As far as we're concerned, we label it when it leaves and what the end user does is completely up to them.

For those who oppose M-Cool, its been, from my experience, due to the following reasons:

1) No clear explanation of what makes it a Product of Canada. I know, pre-BSE, that many cow/calf operators in the US sent their livestock north to be finished, then it shipped back for slaughter. Some of it was slaughtered up here. So what does that become a product of? Is it a US cow? Or a Canadian cow? And no-one could answer that question for us, so we began to suspect that the whole M-Cool thing was just half cocked and not at all well thought out.

2) No clear explanation of why it made a difference. I guarantee you that if you sampled a Montana Angus steak fed with Montana oats and barley, you won't tell the difference between a Saskatchewan Angus steak fed with Saskatchewan oats and barley. So the beef is the same, why the labelling? And the only conclusion we can draw from that is pure protectionism which is exactly what NAFTA was supposed to prevent. We'd already seen the US kick up a stink over softwood lumber and red Spring Wheat, we weren't going to take it again over our beef.

3) M-Cool could lead to overt acts of protectionism. Don't buy Canadian beef cause it isn't safe! You R-Calf guys have virtually assured that any Canadian who opposed M-Cool will remain opposed to it until the end of time.

Rod

 

[Anonymous]

But I'm also aware of why many Canadians have criticized and openly opposed both on here and at the M-COOL hearings the current M-COOL law and any truth in labeling laws changes that have/will be proposed

You may want to change that to "some" Canadians. Most Canadians don't really care whether you want to label our beef or not. As far as we're concerned, we label it when it leaves and what the end user does is completely up to them.

For those who oppose M-Cool, its been, from my experience, due to the following reasons:

1) No clear explanation of what makes it a Product of Canada. I know, pre-BSE, that many cow/calf operators in the US sent their livestock north to be finished, then it shipped back for slaughter. Some of it was slaughtered up here. So what does that become a product of? Is it a US cow? Or a Canadian cow? And no-one could answer that question for us, so we began to suspect that the whole M-Cool thing was just half cocked and not at all well thought out.

Born- Raised - Slaughtered in USA...Anything that has been in Canada becomes Product of Canada- anything that has been in Mexico becomes Product of Mexico etc. etc.

2) No clear explanation of why it made a difference. I guarantee you that if you sampled a Montana Angus steak fed with Montana oats and barley, you won't tell the difference between a Saskatchewan Angus steak fed with Saskatchewan oats and barley. So the beef is the same, why the labelling? And the only conclusion we can draw from that is pure protectionism which is exactly what NAFTA was supposed to prevent. We'd already seen the US kick up a stink over softwood lumber and red Spring Wheat, we weren't going to take it again over our beef.



3) M-Cool could lead to overt acts of protectionism. Don't buy Canadian beef cause it isn't safe! You R-Calf guys have virtually assured that any Canadian who opposed M-Cool will remain opposed to it until the end of time.

Partially because over the years the US producers have worked tirelessly to instill in the US consumers a history of supporting and confidence with US agriculture and agriculture products- and now these consumers that have been so loyal are being deceived, misled, and defrauded....
Partially because of food safety- the BSE issue in Canada is definitely an issue and I believe the final choice on safety should be left to the consumers on it-- then you have the pollution, outlawed drugs and chemicals questions, slaughtering cleanliness, inspector credibility of Mexico and some of the emerging third world countries we are importing from and I think it becomes a right for consumers to have correctly labeled meat products.....

Rod- I honestly believe that if M-COOL existed- many of the issues between Canada and R-CALF would not exist....Its the fraud thats being used and the Canadian and multinational industries free ride on the shirttails of what the US producer has worked so hard to build, that has many members upset- not the Canadian producer themselves.....That wouldn't take away the BSE issue completely- but if consumers were given the correct labeling- the choice would be theirs...I think most R-CALF members would drop all opposition to the Final Rule if M-COOL was enacted and the FDA reinstituted the feedban rules they originally proposed....

Rod

 

[Jason]

This really shows the true intent.

Anything that has been in Canada becomes Product of Canada- anything that has been in Mexico becomes Product of Mexico etc. etc.

Under that standard, a calf born in Montana, lives for 8 months there, comes to Canada and is backgrounded for 90 days, markets shift and he goes to Nebraska to be finished for 120 days, is processed in a US plant under USDA inspection... and it is product of Canada??????

That steer might be a fine specimin, but he spent 12 of 15 months of his life in the US. It is more of a fraud to claim him as product of Canada than anything happening now.

 

[Sandhusker]

This really shows the true intent.

Anything that has been in Canada becomes Product of Canada- anything that has been in Mexico becomes Product of Mexico etc. etc.

Under that standard, a calf born in Montana, lives for 8 months there, comes to Canada and is backgrounded for 90 days, markets shift and he goes to Nebraska to be finished for 120 days, is processed in a US plant under USDA inspection... and it is product of Canada??????

That steer might be a fine specimin, but he spent 12 of 15 months of his life in the US. It is more of a fraud to claim him as product of Canada than anything happening now.

A calf can be born in Manitoba, fed in Manitoba, live all 18 months of it's life in Montana except for the one day it traveled to the US to be slaughtered, and it's product of the USA. That makes no sense to me.

 

[Anonymous]

This really shows the true intent.

Anything that has been in Canada becomes Product of Canada- anything that has been in Mexico becomes Product of Mexico etc. etc.

Under that standard, a calf born in Montana, lives for 8 months there, comes to Canada and is backgrounded for 90 days, markets shift and he goes to Nebraska to be finished for 120 days, is processed in a US plant under USDA inspection... and it is product of Canada??????

That steer might be a fine specimin, but he spent 12 of 15 months of his life in the US. It is more of a fraud to claim him as product of Canada than anything happening now.

Much of this is because we (the US) have no control or oversight over that animal while its out of country....Some of the import countries have differing rules on slaughter inspection, enviroment, pollution control, and drugs and feed allowed....Remember we are not only talking Canada, but Mexico, Uruguay, Central America, etc...

 

[Jason]

Sandhusker right away goes to the live cattle slaughter, r-calfs main gripe,

A calf can be born in Manitoba, fed in Manitoba, live all 18 months of it's life in Montana except for the one day it traveled to the US to be slaughtered, and it's product of the USA. That makes no sense to me.

Then OT answers the main concern of labeling that animal as Canadian

Much of this is because we (the US) have no control or oversight over that animal while its out of country....Some of the import countries have differing rules on slaughter inspection, enviroment, pollution control, and drugs and feed allowed....Remember we are not only talking Canada, but Mexico, Uruguay, Central America, etc...

Canada has no control over US slaughter practices. We are in sync with nearly everything the US does but r-calfers want Canada lumped in with the other countries that have developing standards.

The real intent is obvious.

R-calf is afraid of competition from Canada because we have a product and a reputation that will sway consumers if it was allowed head to head on a level playing field. So label it as "other" to try to hide the real quality instead of having to compete against it fairly.

 

[Bill]

This really shows the true intent.

Anything that has been in Canada becomes Product of Canada- anything that has been in Mexico becomes Product of Mexico etc. etc.

Under that standard, a calf born in Montana, lives for 8 months there, comes to Canada and is backgrounded for 90 days, markets shift and he goes to Nebraska to be finished for 120 days, is processed in a US plant under USDA inspection... and it is product of Canada??????

That steer might be a fine specimin, but he spent 12 of 15 months of his life in the US. It is more of a fraud to claim him as product of Canada than anything happening now.

A calf can be born in Manitoba, fed in Manitoba, live all 18 months of it's life in Montana except for the one day it traveled to the US to be slaughtered, and it's product of the USA. That makes no sense to me.

What's so hard to figure out? It was cattle when it left Canada and in the US it was turned into beef. Oldtimer told us that R-Calfers don't raise BEEFS so what's your big concern?

Steel from a Canadian plant can be shipped to the US and turned into a widget the next day and then your darned proud to see a made in the USA sticker on it.

 

[Anonymous]

,

R-calf is afraid of competition from Canada because we have a product and a reputation that will sway consumers if it was allowed head to head on a level playing field. So label it as "other" to try to hide the real quality instead of having to compete against it fairly.

If Canadians really felt they had a "reputation" product they should be screaming for M-COOL and to have thier product labeled Product of Canada, rather than fighting to keep their product sold under false labeling and fraudulent practices......Looks like Canadians have no pride or confidence in what they produce.....

 

[Sandhusker]

Jason, "R-calf is afraid of competition from Canada because we have a product and a reputation that will sway consumers if it was allowed head to head on a level playing field. So label it as "other" to try to hide the real quality instead of having to compete against it fairly."

Total nonsense. If R-CALF is afraid to compete with your beef, why are we trying to get it labeled as such?

 

[jdst]

COOL IT!! - pun intended.

Chill my brothers. People who live in glass houses shouldn't... etc. etc.

As you can see from the site I posted, it is relatively simple and inexpensive to trace an animal's entire life. It can cross the border, go on vacations, whatever. The consumer can simply key in the number (ours will have bar codes for in-store reporting to consumers) and find out whatever.

Now, let's say we have four happy little steers. Two in Montana and two in Manitoba. They are born within a week of each other and when they are 9 months old they are trucked to Wisconsin (from Manitoba) and Alberta (from Montana). After 4 more months, one of the pair in Alberta goes home to Montana, and one of the pair in Wisconsin goes back to Manitoba.

Six more months go by and the animals in Canada are slaughtered by PCTB and the ones in the US are slaughtered by Creekstone. The tracing history shows where each animal spent it's life, when it moved and what it ate. I'll agree this is too much for a label, and maybe difficult for legislation to agree on a "Product of ----" definition.

Common sense might tell us it should say Product of Canada/USA but then the nationalists would jump in and say maybe it should say "USA/Canada", or worse, lawyers would insist one would say USA/Canada, one Canada/USA, one USA/Canada/USA and the last one Canada/USA/Canada.

To make matters worse, let's assume the mothers of all four were bred by AI and the sperm was from a bull in Germany. Let's get in a few more lawyers.

What would the consumer think? Looking at the tracing records on the computer in a supermarket, I'd be thinking: "Holy crap! These animals get around!"

And if the brand on the label was a brand I liked I would put it in my cart!!

That last bit, lady and gentlemen, is my point.