Canadian Press

[Tam]

One of the issues many are missing is that R-CALF almost needs to challenge this apellate action in order to keep Big Government from getting bigger and more powerful...The appeals panel looked at no evidence addressing the issues and issued their ruling only on the fact giving USDA the power to make such discretionary decisions- without a way for consumers, producers or US citizens to challenge their facts or reasoning ....More power to the bureacratic system...Several other groups are requesting R-CALF to and may join in the appeal....

Should make SH.. happy- another ruling giving more power to his big government.......

This is truly scarey when you see whats happening with USDA, and even have many high level former employees and political leaders coming out and acknowledging that USDA is totally bought and controlled by the big money multinational packers and their support groups.

It is also scarey to see what a little money in the hands of a bunch of protectionists and the right judge can do to a whole nation too. :wink:

 

[Jessie]

One of the issues many are missing is that R-CALF almost needs to challenge this apellate action in order to keep Big Government from getting bigger and more powerful...The appeals panel looked at no evidence addressing the issues and issued their ruling only on the fact giving USDA the power to make such discretionary decisions- without a way for consumers, producers or US citizens to challenge their facts or reasoning ....More power to the bureacratic system...Several other groups are requesting R-CALF to and may join in the appeal....

Should make SH.. happy- another ruling giving more power to his big government.......

This is truly scarey when you see whats happening with USDA, and even have many high level former employees and political leaders coming out and acknowledging that USDA is totally bought and controlled by the big money multinational packers and their support groups.

OT,

How you put it makes sense to me. But does that not mean that it would all go back to the issue of Canadian beef is infected and American beef is not? There is no disputing rcalf made canadian beef out to be the total and only villian. Just lately when the border reopens the tune changed some. If so how can that be a part of the issue with the USDA getting to big for their britches as both countries have and are in the same boat. The more negative beef issues that come up, serioursly is not going to be good for any one. So in order to deal with the USDA having to much power this issue and the canadian cattle have to be the sacrifical lamb? Why not go after the lack of proceedure. Why would raclf be pushing to get the border closed yet again?
And why would raclf saddle up with PETA.

 

[Sandhusker]

You don't get it, Tam.

 

[Bill]

Just how do you R-CALFers think you are going to get your borders open to the Asian markets and keep your border to Mexico open if you get Canadian UTM beef ban because it is a genuine risk of death. Or have you forgotten that the US HAS BSE IN THEIR NATIVE HERD. If the courts agree to close the border to all beef then what will that be telling your consumers Haymaker. THAT ALL US BEEF IS ALSO UNSAFE FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION. You guys are so stupid you would cut your own nose off to spite your face. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Tam- Canadian beef is already negatively affecting out export trade- countries that we are exporting to are demanding US ONLY beef- and that is the reason the USDA has had to set up the BEV program and those packers participating in that program have to go thru the extra rules and efforts to guarantee a US product....Still too bad USDA won't do that for US customers......

What countries would that be?

Just as I thought another unfounded BS statement.

 

[Bill]

Sandhusker look at it this way. Not only are we disadvantaged by the control the US packers have in Canada, we also have to endure R-Calf targeting our product. You can spout off all you want about R-Calf not going after Canadian producers but it is total BS and you know it.

If R-Calf is so concerned about USDA, SUE THEM for the billions you claim to have lost due to their inadequacies with the feed ban. I don't agree with that approach but at least then we may be able to believe that Canada isn't their target. Until they focus on something other than closing the Canadian border closed it is impossible to see them as anything less than an anti-Canadian lobby group that twists the knife in our backs every chance you get.

Bill, why don't you sell your beef to somebody else, like Japan and Korea?

Do you think the answer to your question may be contained in my post above where I mention the control the US packers have? That has to be the poorest deflection you have ever come up with.

Production in Canada is increasing and once the Japanese and Korean market is fully re-opened to Canada and the US, Canadians will increase our share of that market while maintaining our presence in the US .

Why don't you answer my question under the WTO thread? :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Bill- Tam- The USDA lists regulations for 7 countries under the BEV program-- each have differing requirements....Those countries are Mexico, Taiwan, Egypt, Lebanon, Chile, Canada, and the Phillippines- their is also a proposed draft program for Japan.....

 

[Anonymous]

One of the issues many are missing is that R-CALF almost needs to challenge this apellate action in order to keep Big Government from getting bigger and more powerful...The appeals panel looked at no evidence addressing the issues and issued their ruling only on the fact giving USDA the power to make such discretionary decisions- without a way for consumers, producers or US citizens to challenge their facts or reasoning ....More power to the bureacratic system...Several other groups are requesting R-CALF to and may join in the appeal....

Should make SH.. happy- another ruling giving more power to his big government.......

This is truly scarey when you see whats happening with USDA, and even have many high level former employees and political leaders coming out and acknowledging that USDA is totally bought and controlled by the big money multinational packers and their support groups.

OT,

How you put it makes sense to me. But does that not mean that it would all go back to the issue of Canadian beef is infected and American beef is not? There is no disputing rcalf made canadian beef out to be the total and only villian. Just lately when the border reopens the tune changed some. If so how can that be a part of the issue with the USDA getting to big for their britches as both countries have and are in the same boat. The more negative beef issues that come up, serioursly is not going to be good for any one. So in order to deal with the USDA having to much power this issue and the canadian cattle have to be the sacrifical lamb? Why not go after the lack of proceedure. Why would raclf be pushing to get the border closed yet again?
And why would raclf saddle up with PETA.

Tam- the reason Canada is involved is because the question is about USDA's discretionary right to alter, and the procedure they used to alter, the import rules that were in effect to protect the US from bringing more BSE into the country-- alledgedly against the advice of their own scientists... there are just too many questions about their procedure that need to be and should be answered in a trial- not with a blanket stamp of the appeals court giving them an unchallengeable power.....

And R-CALF is as connected to PETA as Big Beaver is to France! But as people get a chance to actually become aware of the ruling there are more rumblings from some staunch conservatives about how this is another rung up on the ladder up for big government control- and I would not be surprised to see some of the liberal groups like ACLU to jump in...

 

[Murgen]

And R-CALF is as connected to PETA as Big Beaver is to France! But as people get a chance to actually become aware of the ruling there are more rumblings from some staunch conservatives about how this is another rung up on the ladder up for big government control- and I would not be surprised to see some of the liberal groups like ACLU to jump in...

You mean an American group would tie food safety(an issue that has been dealt with) or a natural disaster, to their own political agenda?

I DON"T BELIEVE IT!!!! These groups are not accustomed to making mountains out of mole hills!

 

[Kato]

"The USDA lists regulations for 7 countries under the BEV program-- each have differing requirements....Those countries are Mexico, Taiwan, Egypt, Lebanon, Chile, Canada, and the Phillippines- their is also a proposed draft program for Japan....."

So how come they aren't trying to shut the Mexican border? Too far from Montana? :?

R-Calf may think they aren't allied with PETA, but you can bet your bottom dollar that there are PETA members taking very good notes of every derogatory remark R-Calf makes about the safety of American beef. We will hear Bill Bullard quotes coming from the mouths of vegetarian activists before this is over, of that I am convinced. I used PETA as an example, but they are far from the only ones who are waiting to jump in on this.

It's not the Canadians who "Just don't get it" :!: We "get" it just fine. We "got" it for two long years. :shock:

 

[Murgen]

It's not the Canadians who "Just don't get it" We "get" it just fine. We "got" it for two long years.

Well said again Kato, I'm sure there are lots of producers who still have their pants pulled down, just in case we "get it" again from RCALF.

But what do we expect from a group who believes, we're a bunch of Canadian "hussies"

I guess we will just have to paint "Food safety" on our barrels for the next time we're bent over. It will remind us why we're enduring the going over.

 

[Sandhusker]

It's not the Canadians who "Just don't get it" We "get" it just fine. We "got" it for two long years.

Well said again Kato, I'm sure there are lots of producers who still have their pants pulled down, just in case we "get it" again from RCALF.

But what do we expect from a group who believes, we're a bunch of Canadian "hussies"

A single US trade organization "gives it" to an entire Canadian industry? Must be one heck of a powerful organization.

 

[Murgen]

They were, key word being "were", but not so much now. I think the US industry has seen RCALF's cards and have decided they are not the "voice of the American Rancher"

 

[Sandhusker]

Bill, "Do you think the answer to your question may be contained in my post above where I mention the control the US packers have? That has to be the poorest deflection you have ever come up with."

So what are you doing to combat that? Have you even sent one letter to any of your representatives? Have you joined an organization that recognizes the problem and is taking measures to fix it? What have YOU done?

Bill, "Production in Canada is increasing and once the Japanese and Korean market is fully re-opened to Canada and the US, Canadians will increase our share of that market while maintaining our presence in the US."

Sounds good. How are you going to do it?

Bill, "Why don't you answer my question under the WTO thread?"

Until just now, I didn't read your post. You don't want the answers, Bill, you just want to fight with a R-CALFer. There have been plenty of examples presented the last month or so that illustrate the problems. Mike posted a good deal of them. You can either figure it out or not - doesn't effect me either way.

 

[Murgen]

Until just now, I didn't read your post. You don't want the answers, Bill, you just want to fight with a R-CALFer. There have been plenty of examples presented the last month or so that illustrate the problems. Mike posted a good deal of them. You can either figure it out or not - doesn't effect me either way.

You don't think it will affect you, but the Canadian solution to your RCALF's fight will affect you. Wait and see!

There must be a reason the packers are expanding in Canada, and wanting to bring in more South American beef, into the US. Maybe they think the US market can be supplied by that lower quality meat, and export right from the source, the great quality, without having to switch labels from "product of Canada" to "product of US".

Now that's big picture!!!! The Japanese are playing with you, and RCALF/USDA are falling right into their hands. I wonder how much effort the USDA is placing on proving themselves right and RCALF wrong! While proving themselves right, the USDA is resisting change, and proving the Japanese correct. (correct in the sence or the US not meeting customer preferences)Thanks RCALF!

Look for Canadian beef to gain market share in Japan, China and the larger markets worldwide!

 

[Anonymous]

Bill- You and I have argued about this before over oil....And I'll probably get slammed again as being antiCanadian- but just like the oil industry is no longer Canadian owned or controlled- neither is your beef industry....After NAFTA Canadians jumped at the big money the US owned and multinational companies poured in and sold their country....

You, like us in the US, have given much of our sovereignty and control of our governments to the Big Bucks of Big Business- and getting that sovereignty back is going to be a tough row to hoe....

I hope your member owned and co-op slaughter houses succeed- and you get your own export markets developed- but I wouldn't wager a dime on it....If it interfers in any way with the Big Boys and their marketing plans those plants and markets will be just another pesky fly to be swatted.......

 

[Bill]

Bill- Tam- The USDA lists regulations for 7 countries under the BEV program-- each have differing requirements....Those countries are Mexico, Taiwan, Egypt, Lebanon, Chile, Canada, and the Phillippines- their is also a proposed draft program for Japan.....

Your statement Oldtimer was countries that we are exporting to are demanding US ONLY beef.

Your two largest export markets Jan 2005 to july 2005 are MEXICO 67,396mt and CANADA 15,319mt. Are you trying to tell us that the countries listed above who are taking Canadian beef are DEMANDING American?

 

[Sandhusker]

OT is right, Murgen. For the most part, there is no longer a Canadian beef industry. In it's place is the US owned beef industry in Canada. There will be no Canadian solution. You'll do just as the US packers tell you to do just as you are now.

Why are the US packers expanding up there? Agman's sources tell him it is to supply the domestic market. If you believe that..... Why do they want to bring in more beef from overseas? You don't have to actually think hard on that one, do you?

 

[Murgen]

Bill- You and I have argued about this before over oil....And I'll probably get slammed again as being antiCanadian- but just like the oil industry is no longer Canadian owned or controlled- neither is your beef industry....After NAFTA Canadians jumped at the big money the US owned and multinational companies poured in and sold their country....

Is the oil industry American owned? Or public, and investment can be made by non-Americans?

If it interfers in any way with the Big Boys and their marketing plans those plants and markets will be just another pesky fly to be swatted.......

What makes you think that the "big boys" have forgotten where their supply for exports came from? The US recorded record amounts of imports last year, and that's without export markets. Would it be in the "big boy" interests to kill close to the source? What was the average per pound increase (value added ) in selling price on imported Canadian meat, that was re-exported?

Might be more efficient/profit making to just for-go the import/labelling costs and just export directly from Canada!

 

[Bill]

Bill- You and I have argued about this before over oil....And I'll probably get slammed again as being antiCanadian- but just like the oil industry is no longer Canadian owned or controlled- neither is your beef industry....After NAFTA Canadians jumped at the big money the US owned and multinational companies poured in and sold their country....

You, like us in the US, have given much of our sovereignty and control of our governments to the Big Bucks of Big Business- and getting that sovereignty back is going to be a tough row to hoe....

I hope your member owned and co-op slaughter houses succeed- and you get your own export markets developed- but I wouldn't wager a dime on it....If it interfers in any way with the Big Boys and their marketing plans those plants and markets will be just another pesky fly to be swatted.......

We agree on that OT.

 

[Tam]

It's not the Canadians who "Just don't get it" We "get" it just fine. We "got" it for two long years.

Well said again Kato, I'm sure there are lots of producers who still have their pants pulled down, just in case we "get it" again from RCALF.

But what do we expect from a group who believes, we're a bunch of Canadian "hussies"

A single US trade organization "gives it" to an entire Canadian industry? Must be one heck of a powerful organization.

In Leos words "R-CALF used consumers groups to get their message out because they attract more attention". So you see Sandhusker it is not who you are but who you are willing to USE to further your agenda that is the big problem. R-CALF is willing to saddle up with anyone that can further their agenda and they proved it with the consumer groups admitted to by your own LEADER. They will say anything to further their agenda and they proved that with all the lies about the Canadian Beef industry. If this was about the USDA why the LYING about Canada?