Changing calving seasons

[Soapweed]

A few years ago I bought a small ranch from an elderly gentleman. He asked if I wanted to buy his cow herd as well . I asked when they started to calve...he said he never pulled the bulls. That way he could take a pickup load of calves to town anytime he needed a calf check. :lol:

I usually leave the bulls in for about ninety days, figuring a late calf is better than no calf.

I agree. With a late calver, you got options.

With an open cow--you don't.

I will leave the bull in for 90 days but then I will cull any that don't calve in the first 60.

I agree that a late calf is better than no calf but I don't have to put up with late calves for long. Any cow that calves after May 31st goes to market at weaning time along with any opens.

Good nutrition and good mineral programs promote quick breed backs and as such we need to strive for the best and cull the rest. It does not cost more to keep a good cow than it does to keep a poor one.

A late calver can easily gain back the time they have lost and get back in the front of calving within the herd. Today I was sorting heavies, and several of the ones that are getting close were at one time some of the latest calvers. (I know because they had our "fall" tag, which means they were called open and put into the fall herd, but instead had a very late spring calf.) One instance in particular comes to mind. Out of the last fifteen that calved one year, the following year twelve of them were in the front third for calving. Therefore I see no need to cull late calvers for that reason alone.

 

[WyomingRancher]

I haven't tried calving on grass, but I did try mid-April through May calving. I was trying to calve as late as possible, but still be ready to turn onto the forest permit by mid-June. In my experience, it didn't work for me at all. I couldn't move the cows back to earlier calving fast enough, and surprisingly they transitioned back rather easily.

Those years of later calving were the toughest I've put in by far. Late spring is when heavy wet snows typically hit, practically every cow had to calve in the barn. Taking young pairs to the forest wasn't exactly a picnic either, and our pregnancy rates took a hit from trying to breed completely on a permit. Also, since the calves had been branded later, flies were a problem, not exactly what you want the public to see on their forest.

If we ran on 100% deeded land, I might consider a May 15 start-date. However, I can't complain about calving early. I've got good facilities, and excellent shelter to turn pairs out into once they've dried off and nursed. Besides, most of the place is covered in abortion-causing ponderosa pine trees, and I've found it's best to get the cows calved out and back into the trees for protection before the big snows come in late spring.

 

[leanin' H]

Wise ranchers work with their habitat, their unique situations and what has worked for generations. That's not to say thinking outside the box and trying new ideas has no place. But there is a reason why what works in each area has allowed ranchers to survive and even thrive. There is no cookie cutter solution or one size fits all. Its the variables and unknowns that keep us all guessing. It is sure fun to get the chance to see how others run their outfits. Or screw them up. :wink: :lol:

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

I usually leave the bulls in for about ninety days, figuring a late calf is better than no calf.

I agree. With a late calver, you got options.

With an open cow--you don't.

I will leave the bull in for 90 days but then I will cull any that don't calve in the first 60.

I agree that a late calf is better than no calf but I don't have to put up with late calves for long. Any cow that calves after May 31st goes to market at weaning time along with any opens.

Good nutrition and good mineral programs promote quick breed backs and as such we need to strive for the best and cull the rest. It does not cost more to keep a good cow than it does to keep a poor one.

A late calver can easily gain back the time they have lost and get back in the front of calving within the herd. Today I was sorting heavies, and several of the ones that are getting close were at one time some of the latest calvers. (I know because they had our "fall" tag, which means they were called open and put into the fall herd, but instead had a very late spring calf.) One instance in particular comes to mind. Out of the last fifteen that calved one year, the following year twelve of them were in the front third for calving. Therefore I see no need to cull late calvers for that reason alone.

Wonder if those cows caught up because they calved on green grass and cycled back quicker.

 

[Soapweed]

I agree. With a late calver, you got options.

With an open cow--you don't.

I will leave the bull in for 90 days but then I will cull any that don't calve in the first 60.

I agree that a late calf is better than no calf but I don't have to put up with late calves for long. Any cow that calves after May 31st goes to market at weaning time along with any opens.

Good nutrition and good mineral programs promote quick breed backs and as such we need to strive for the best and cull the rest. It does not cost more to keep a good cow than it does to keep a poor one.

A late calver can easily gain back the time they have lost and get back in the front of calving within the herd. Today I was sorting heavies, and several of the ones that are getting close were at one time some of the latest calvers. (I know because they had our "fall" tag, which means they were called open and put into the fall herd, but instead had a very late spring calf.) One instance in particular comes to mind. Out of the last fifteen that calved one year, the following year twelve of them were in the front third for calving. Therefore I see no need to cull late calvers for that reason alone.

Wonder if those cows caught up because they calved on green grass and cycled back quicker.

For what it's worth, this is one thing I like about winter calving. The days are steady but without super big runs. I don't want them all coming at once. The calves come fast enough the way it is. Calving on green grass, I'll bet you could get up to 10 percent of the herd on any given day. That is too many.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

A late calver can easily gain back the time they have lost and get back in the front of calving within the herd. Today I was sorting heavies, and several of the ones that are getting close were at one time some of the latest calvers. (I know because they had our "fall" tag, which means they were called open and put into the fall herd, but instead had a very late spring calf.) One instance in particular comes to mind. Out of the last fifteen that calved one year, the following year twelve of them were in the front third for calving. Therefore I see no need to cull late calvers for that reason alone.

Wonder if those cows caught up because they calved on green grass and cycled back quicker.

For what it's worth, this is one thing I like about winter calving. The days are steady but without super big runs. I don't want them all coming at once. The calves come fast enough the way it is. Calving on green grass, I'll bet you could get up to 10 percent of the herd on any given day. That is too many.

Out on green grass they could all come one day. :wink:

 

[Soapweed]

Wonder if those cows caught up because they calved on green grass and cycled back quicker.

For what it's worth, this is one thing I like about winter calving. The days are steady but without super big runs. I don't want them all coming at once. The calves come fast enough the way it is. Calving on green grass, I'll bet you could get up to 10 percent of the herd on any given day. That is too many.

Out on green grass they could all come one day. :wink:

And that would be the day of the big May blizzard. :?

 

[Roundup]

I really enjoy the winter calving. We calve about 300 head in a 60 day interval. A modern calf barn with heat rooms and pasture lights helps the process. With synch and AI we are 80% calved out in February, I would not do it without the facilities. April and early May is for branding, AI and farming on our ranch, just what we elect to do.

 

[Soapweed]

I really enjoy the winter calving. We calve about 300 head in a 60 day interval. A modern calf barn with heat rooms and pasture lights helps the process. With synch and AI we are 80% calved out in February, I would not do it without the facilities. April and early May is for branding, AI and farming on our ranch, just what we elect to do.

How can it be so wrong when it feels so right? :wink:

 

[rancherfred]

5% in a day is pretty common for us. Have never seen 10% but that would be fine with me. We usually have at least 70% in 21 days, which would indicate no problem with breed back in the hot days of August. I think the highest number I ever saw was around 80% in 21 days. It will keep you running ragged for those three weeks, but then it is coasting for the rest of the season.

 

[Northern Rancher]

I had 45 calves one year before the temp got above -43-I'll risk a May storm lol.

 

[flyingS]

The first spring we worked for the Rex Ranch, 587 cows out of 655 calved in 23 days. Almost 90% in just over 21 days. It is fast and furious and was quite overwhelming, if I had a choice I wouldn't do it any other way. All of the cows were illiterate so I didn't have to be embarrassed by the fact that I couldn't get 4 digits on a tag, we just skipped the tagging and rode heavies and pairs. Life was grand and I think I rode 23 outside horses that year.

 

[Dylan Biggs]

I used to have quite a few tail first, leg back, head first no feet, upside down, etc. calves when pen calving but that issue disappeared on grass.

Our experience has also been that malpresentations have virtually disapeared. Haven't pulled a calf from a cow in 7 or 8 years. The last one I remember was from the nieghbors monster hereford bull and the calf came backwards, got him out alive.

 

[LCP]

Thanks for everyone's input. I'm mainly looking at the labor side of things. We calve 150 at my place (2's and 3's) and 250 old cows at the other, 4 mi away. Spring storms are not at all enjoyable, since I can only be one place at a time. I can't stand losing calves, and we really don't lose all that many to weather. But it comes at such a cost to my body and ability to enjoy my job. I dread the idea of doing it this way for another 30 years. Call me soft but I want to enjoy my work.

I've seen those late May calving heifers shorten up their calving interval considerably as 3's - as much as 40 days earlier than their first calf. In fact, I've looked at calving intervals of 2's and 3's for the past few years and there is usually about a 30 day shorter interval for the last 25% that calved as 2's vs the first 25%. I was amazed. That was what really got me wondering if we were working against the grain on this thing.

For those who are calving later, do many of you background your calves or retain ownership to slaughter? Has calving later hurt or helped those marketing decisions?

 

[Northern Rancher]

I probably have taken 90% of ours to slaughter since we started-we've placed on feed in the spring or just off grass too. With the market on the way up we'll probably sell calves again-there's a bit more money in feeding when nobody wants them.

 

[rancherfred]

We usually sell some for winter delivery and carry the rest through to grass. We will sell the balance of the steers in the late summer/early fall depending on markets. The heifers will usually be kept through to yearlings. This year we bred everything and then decide what to keep, based first on fertility. Marketing is completely different than it was with winter calving. We used to chase the calf fat markets.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned in this discussion that you may see become an issue is that the animal may need to be redesigned. Since you are changing the production environment for the cow they may need to be tweaked to fit their new environment. Specifically, you shouldn't be surprised if you start seeing udders blow up. Not literally, but we have certainly had to pay more attention to the udder and teat structure than we used to. Something about freshening on green grass really seems to stress udders that were designed to feed new borns on hay. It isn't something that can't be dealt with, but you do need to be more vigilant than you would with a more typical calving system. I am not sure if this is the root of the problem, but it is almost like they produce a lot more milk at freshening on green grass than they would on hay so the udder and teats are stressed and structure can start to break down. The calves take a while, think several days, to get the bag completely nursed out the first time and as a result the teats can be huge. I refuse to milk them, so if they have a small calf at weaning they are gone. We are slowly getting them cleaned up, but it is a long term project.

 

[Big Swede]

When we calved in Mar and Apr we would wean and push those calves from day one and depending on the feeder market we would either sell 800 pounders in Jan or finish them here on the place. We were always out of cattle by June 1 so that means most were 13-14 mo of age at slaughter. One year I had a back problem about April 1st and we got about an inch of rain followed by 2 feet of snow. It about killed me but I only lost a couple calves. That's the year I decided that if I wanted my son to take over some day there had to be a better way. Why would he want to do what I was doing.

Since we have always backgrouded, losing a little weight at weaning was not a problem. Another barrier I had to break through in my mind was not to push those calves like I used to. I raise all my own feed but just because you have $6 corn in the bin doesn't mean you have to feed it. I sold 6 weight steers in Jan for $50 a head less than 800 pound steers. That's just the supply and demand situation that happens ever year.

I know exactly what you're going through LCP, hope this helped.