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Checkoff Survey- But Will CBB listen to it!!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Anonymous
  • Start date Start date
Nebraska Dave,

In the COOL law, to be designated as U.S. origin requires meat products to be from cattle, hogs, and sheep that are born, raised, and slaughtered in the United States. In contrast, USDA's commodity procurement program requires meat products to come from U.S. produced livestock which excludes only imported meat and meat from livestock imported for direct slaughter.

An animal that is born in Canada or Mexico, raised in Canada or Mexico, AND FED IN THE US would qualify for the school lunch program. An animal that is born in Canada or Mexico, raised in Canada or Mexico, and FED IN THE US WOULD NOT qualify for "M"COOL.

Didn't know that did you Dave? Admit it, you didn't know that did you?

What R-CALF doesn't tell you is just as important as what they do tell you. Wonder why I dislike R-CULT so much? You have a perfect example right here. They don't tell you the truth. They only tell you what they want to tell you.

The requirements for the school lunch program and the requirements for "M"COOL are not the same regardless what R-CULT tells you. That is a fact!


Go ahead cheap talking Sandcheska, prove me wrong!

Watch Sandcheska divert the challenge Dave. That's why he finds his comfort zone in avoiding the debate and making his meaningless little statements instead. Sandcheska couldn't support his position with supporting facts if his life depended on it.


Want the facts on Country of Origin Labeling Dave?

Here they are.........


The Facts Behind Mandatory Country of Origin Labeling

Don't consumers have a right to know where their beef comes from? This rhetorical question was the standard argument used repeatedly by proponents of Mandatory Country of Origin Labeling ("M"COOL). That argument sounds good on the surface and garnered much of the current support for "M"COOL but this issue goes much deeper than consumers having the right to know where their beef comes from. The concept is easy to support but implementation, enforcement, and cost/benefit questions remain mostly unanswered.

Ironically, the same proponents of "M"COOL who insisted on consumers knowing which beef was from cattle that were exclusively "Born, Raised, and Slaughtered in the U.S." are also telling USDA not to burden them with traceback on their cattle to verify the claims on the label. Talk about wanting your cake and eating it, too. I wonder how many consumer groups are aware of this effort to water down the enforcement aspects of this labeling law? It's also ironic that those who claim to be in the cattle industry and not the beef industry are telling those in the beef industry how to market beef.

Foreign Beef Small Percentage

Let's forget the standard arguments for a moment and focus strictly on the facts of this legislation. The first important fact to consider is that only an estimated 5% of our current beef consumption in the U.S. would be labeled as "foreign beef" under this law. The balance would be either labeled as "Product of U.S." or "U.S. Beef" or it would be exempt from labeling. Nobody knows what the future of trade holds but this is the situation with normal trade with Canada and Mexico.

Recent figures from USDA show that 20% of our domestic beef consumption is imported beef and live cattle. Of this 20%, 75% of these imports end up in "food service" where they would be exempt as written in the "M"COOL law.

A large percentage of our beef imports are lean trimmings from Australia and New Zealand that we blend with our surplus 50/50 trim to add value to it. Over 90% of these trimmings find their way to the food service (hotels, restraunts, and institutions) industry. Food service establishments such as McDonalds, Taco John's, Pizza Hut, and many others, which constitute around 50% of our total beef consumption, will be exempt from this law. The entire poultry industry is also exempt from "M"COOL as it's been proposed.

The "food service exemption" is a primary reason that "M"COOL got as far as it did. Logistically, it would be quite a challenge to label every McDonalds hamburger, label the meat on every Domino's pizza, label the meat in every Taco John's taco, and label every Ball Park hot dog even if the consumer was asking for it. They obviously are not.

What does this "food service exemption" mean in regard to "M"COOL? It means that currently, only 5% of our total beef consumption in the U.S. would be labeled as "foreign beef" under this law because of this exemption. (That is, providing that the remaining 5% is not also channeled toward food service). For that reason, under the current import situation, most consumers will not have the opportunity to make a choice between foreign and domestic beef even if this law was enforceable.

Of the small percentage of beef that might currently be labeled as "foreign beef', most would be from Canada and Mexico. Canada currently has a source verification system that helped them to trace their recent BSE situation. They have a consumer safety edge from that standpoint. In contrast, Mandatory ID was specifically forbidden from our Country of Origin Labeling law.

Canada and the United States have been trading genetics for years making Canada's beef quality every bit as good as our northern cattle. Their carcass data confirms this. To suggest otherwise is to ignore the facts. In regard to Mexican beef, considering the percentage of our population that is Hispanic, it's doubtful that they would shy away from the sliver of beef that is labeled as being born in Mexico and fed in the United States.



Enforcement an Issue

Next, let's look at the enforcement aspects of this law. As mentioned previously, the same proponents of this law that said "consumers should have the right to know where their beef comes from", are also telling USDA that they do not want to be burdened with traceback to prove origination. This has been one of the most deceitful tactics used by the proponents of this law. Without proper enforcement and an adequate traceback system, the food safety value that this law supposedly provides is questionable.

"M"COOL proponents only wanted imported animals to be tracked and the balance to be "presumed" as U.S. origin. The problem with that idea is that the law clearly states that "any person engaged in the business of supplying a covered commodity to a retailer shall provide information to the retailer indicating the country of origin of the covered commodity". Nowhere does the law suggest that only imported animals would be tracked.

There are also trade laws to consider regarding the marking of imported animals. Proponents of this law keep throwing out the "presumption of US origin" argument as an alternative to traceback of domestic cattle when USDA has stated clearly that "presumption of US origin" is not an option due to the constraints of both laws.

Some have contended, based on their interpretation of the law, that only retailers would need to provide information and that live cattle are not a covered commodity therefore should not fall under the guidelines of proving origination. Consider that these same proponents of "M"COOL insisted on proving which beef was from cattle that were exclusively "Born, Raised, and Slaughtered in the U.S.".

The intent of this law was quite clear when it was written. It becomes obvious that neither a retailer nor a processor can determine the origin of the beef without also determining the origin of the cattle the beef came from. After all, beef is not "Born, Raised, and Slaughtered in the U.S.", live cattle are. There's no way around the initial intent of this law despite the best efforts of those who are against a traceback system to verify the claims of the label.

The USDA Grain Inspection, Packers and Stockyards Administration (GIPSA) has also stated that processors are within their legal rights to require information from producers to verify the origin of the cattle and understandably so as there is no other way to substantiate the origin claims of the label without verification as this law is written.

What we ended up with is a law that must prove which cattle were "Born, Raised, and Slaughtered in the U.S." without adequate enforcement to substantiate the claims of the label because Mandatory ID was prohibited. Where's the logic in that? You tell me! Proponents have viewed additional efforts to water down the enforcement aspects of this law as a positive step. This law is flawed and deceptive by not offering consumers what it had originally implied.

Affidavits are Inadequate

Some have suggested that if "Presumption of U.S. Origin" is not an option, then producers should be allowed to use signed affidavits to verify the origination of their cattle. It's highly unlikely that consumers would ever allow labeling claims to be verified solely based on a signed affidavit without some sort of traceback system.

Even if consumers would be willing to accept labeling claims based solely on a signature, this still requires a change in the law as it is currently worded. From history, we know that a signature is only as good as its enforcement. The LMA's checkoff petition drive revealed this when it was proven that 33% of these signatures were fraudulent.

If producers could positively identify their livestock based solely on a signature, we wouldn't need brand inspection anywhere. Those of us who live in brand inspection areas know that signed affidavits, without a brand to verify the affidavit, wouldn't be effective from an enforcement standpoint.

It's interesting to note that those who have liability concerns with traceback do not have liability concerns about signed affidavits. If they are equal in their ability to verify a label from an enforcement standpoint, one has to ask why the preference for one over the other? Either "signed affidavits" are verifiable proof to back the claims of a label or they're not! I think the answer is obvious!

Just as interesting is the fact that those who claim that packers are trying to hide foreign beef behind the USDA inspection stamp are now trusting packers enough to correctly label imported beef with only a signature as verifiable proof. There is no consistency in the arguments of the proponents of this law.

Branding could be used as a means of source verification but not all states or areas have brand inspection and there is duplications of brands between states. Either way, this only tracks the cattle, not the estimated 300 packages of beef that these cattle may become.

Proponents of "M"COOL continually attempt to equate "M"COOL to the school lunch program when the requirements for origin of the two are not the same. In the COOL law, to be designated as U.S. origin requires meat products to be from cattle, hogs, and sheep that are born, raised, and slaughtered in the United States. In contrast, USDA's commodity procurement program requires meat products to come from U.S. produced livestock which excludes only imported meat and meat from livestock imported for direct slaughter.

The Inevitable "Blame Game"

The USDA is the agency that is in charge of implementation and enforcement of this law. Many want to blame USDA for not being able to implement this law as proponents had intended but when you read the law, it becomes obvious that this law would be very difficult to enforce as it is written. If the law allowed it, tracking imported cattle to the packing plant is not the problem. The problem is when you try tracking an estimated 300 packages of beef from an imported carcass that end up being shipped to various destinations with packages of beef of mixed origin without a mandatory ID system.

The wording on the label has to be substantiated with adequate enforcement. One solution to this, providing that the law as written is changed, might be for processors to schedule cattle that were not "Born, Raised, and Slaughtered in the U.S.", only on certain days. This would create slaughter scheduling problems of scheduling enough foreign cattle to maintain plant flow. Another potential solution is DNA testing to match the package with the cattle that the beef came from but at this point DNA testing is cost prohibitive.

Certainly with modern technology these carcasses and the beef products that they become can be traced but the first question that must be asked is, will this tracing mechanism be enforceable to assure consumers of the validity of the label? The second question that must be asked is will the expenses of differentiating 5% of the beef be worth the costs of labeling all the beef and the costs of implementation and enforcement? Those questions have not been answered adequately for beef producers.

Consumer Loyalty to US Products Questionable

NCBA supports voluntary Country of Origin labeling. The justification being to allow any potential consumer demand for U. S. BEEF, to drive the market needs rather than another government mandate. I know of two source verified "US BEEF" products currently in production neither of which are realizing any noticeable premium above commodity beef prices. There has not been any evidence provided to suggest that consumers are willing to pay enough more for 95% of the U.S. labeled commodity beef to offset the costs of labeling all beef.

Proponents of "M"COOL have used a study from CSU as proof of consumer's willingness to pay more for U.S. BEEF. CSU later responded to this misinterpretation of their study by suggesting that Country of Origin was not a priority with most consumers when compared to other issues such as price, flavor, tenderness, etc . Consumer purchases of New Zealand lamb and Argentina Grass Fed Beef are two examples of how consumers are not always as loyal to U.S. products as we would hope. All the foreign products that surround our daily lives including our clothes is also proof that we are not always as loyal to domestic products as we would like to believe. In comparing what consumers say and what consumers do, one finds out that "talk is cheap"!

It's interesting to note that those who claim that the packers and retailers do not pass on the benefits of the beef checkoff are suggesting that packers would pass on the benefits of "M"COOL. Can't have it both ways.


Costs to implement "M"COOL

The last issue of contention is what will the "M" COOL implementation costs be? Numerous cost estimations have been presented but all are just educated guesses. Suspiciously absent from these cost estimates is one from those who are pushing hardest for this law. Costs will no doubt raise and lower according to the accountability that is required in verifying the label. If the enforcement aspects of this law are reduced to signed affidavits, of course the costs will lower but so will the consumer confidence in the validity of the label.

What we know for sure is that there will be costs and those costs are always passed down the line to the producer. To think that the processors and retailers will absorb these extra costs without passing them on to the producers in the form of lower cattle prices is foolish.

Finding solutions

So what is the solution to making this flawed law work? One suggestion is for "M"COOL proponents to step up to the plate, change the law, and allow for source verification to substantiate the claims on the label which would give consumers and producers food safety value. This would allow traceback for disease and food safety reasons, it would allow us to remain competitive with our export markets, and it would still allow differentiation of the 5% of our current U.S. beef consumption that might be labeled as imported. This is the common ground between the polarized sides of this issue. This would benefit consumers but the benefits to producers is certainly questionable.

If an enforceable traceback system is not an option, the second suggestion is to get rid of this flawed law and let the free enterprise system do what it does best and keep further government regulation out of our industry.

Either consumers have a right to know where their beef comes from by making this law enforceable or they don't. Either producers who want to differentiate foreign products are willing to stand behind this desire by proving it, or they're not. If this law is not enforceable, it offers nothing of value to the consumers and burdens producers with additional expense and yet another governmental intervention into our lives.

I support consumers knowing where their beef comes from, both foreign and domestic beef, if that is what they desire but I will not support interfering with the consumer's ability to verify the claims on a food label nor USDA's ability to enforce it. Our customers deserve better than that!



1. Most consumers are not asking for Country of Origin Labeling

2. Those consumers that do want to know where their beef comes from can buy source verified branded beef.

3. When you segregate ONLY 5% of the beef as imported, you have created a novelty item that favors the rare product.

4. Sales of New Zealand lamb is a perfect example of how U.S. consumers are not loyal to U.S. products.

5. "M"COOL prohibited the means to enforce it by prohibiting "M"ID.

6. There is nothing in "M"COOL that cannot be provided better by the free enterprise system.

7. There will be costs associated with segregating foreign carcasses and foreign beef products that will be passed on to producers in the form of lower cattle prices.

8. Packers and retailers off all sizes opposed "M" COOL at "M"COOL listening sessions.

9. Those who sell beef generally know more about selling beef than those who just sell cattle.

10. Consumers base their shopping priorities on price and value, not country of origin.




~SH~
 
Dave you should know that those "facts" about M-COOL are "facts" written by and interpreted by SH....He wrote an article a couple years ago that the editor printed and a couple old NCBA folks stood up and cheered him on it- made him a legend in his own mind :lol: -- and he's been living in the past on that article and his laurels ever since.... We've seen 1000's of copy and pastes from it for years ... :gag: :lol: :lol: He can't admit things have changed... :roll:

But beside segregating US beef for the lunch program under that programs definition- the Packers/USDA have segregated out foreign beef and guaranteed USA born, raised, and slaughtered for many of our export markets over the last few years...Japan and Korea to name a few- along with some others under the BEV program.... Along with the born, raised, and slaughtered US branded programs out there....

So it has been shown it can be done... :roll:
 
OT: "Dave you should know that those "facts" about M-COOL are "facts" written by and interpreted by SH....He wrote an article a couple years ago that the editor printed and a couple old NCBA folks stood up and cheered him on it- made him a legend in his own mind -- and he's been living in the past on that article and his laurels ever since.... We've seen 1000's of copy and pastes from it for years ... He can't admit things have changed..."

As always, those who cannot debate, discredit. Same-O, Same-O from the "factually void".

The law has not changed nor have the requirements of the law in order for it to be enforceable.

You cannot refute a single fact that was stated. Nothing in that article has been refuted by anyone. The facts simply do not support what you WANT TO BELIEVE so, as always, you make your "steers attempt" to discredit it. Have another whiskey law man.


OT: "But beside segregating US beef for the lunch program under that programs definition- the Packers/USDA have segregated out foreign beef and guaranteed USA born, raised, and slaughtered for many of our export markets over the last few years...Japan and Korea to name a few- along with some others under the BEV program.... Along with the born, raised, and slaughtered US branded programs out there...."

So it has been shown it can be done..."

WHO SAID IT COULDN'T BE DONE OT ????

That's not the point. The point is you "M"COOL advocates do not support "M"ID and "M"COOL will require a "MANDATORY ID" to enforce it. That is a fact that you cannot deny. You handed USDA this dumb assed law and then didn't want to be burdened with the ID program that will be required to enforce it. That's the depth of your intelligence. Now you blame USDA because they didn't "JUST MARK THE IMPORTS" that you "CLAIMED" would enforce this law.

It's unfortunate that you "M"COOL advocates are not responsible for enforcing your backwards law.

The requirements of the school lunch program are not the same as "M"COOL requirements so why do you keep using that wore out argument?

Now why don't you step up to the plate for once and prove me wrong on anything that has been stated. Just because it's not what you WANT TO BELIEVE doesn't mean it's not fact.

You and Sandcheska are such blind followers of the gospel according to R-CULT. SHEEP!


~SH~
 
M-COOL only requires country of origin. It does not require the ranch the animal was born in. All cattle entering this country are hot branded "CAN" or "M". As long as the boys at the border are doing their job, if the animal does not have a "M" or "CAN", it is of US origin. Since even a grade school kid can identify country of origin of any animal in the packer's pen via the brands or lack thereof, traceback needs to go no further back from there. That's one of the reasons R-CALF was opposed to traceback to the producers - it isn't needed.

The packers have shown they can keep product seperate - they are already doing it with their premium, natural, and organic lines. If they can keep a "natural" animal's beef identified, they can keep a Canadian animal's beef identified.
 
All we gotta do is slap a USA brand on our cattle and call it good. There is a difference between an ID system and a traceback system.
 
Sandcheska: "M-COOL only requires country of origin. It does not require the ranch the animal was born in."

"M"COOL requires proof of where every animal was "BORN, RAISED, AND SLAUGHTERED". The "BORN" requirement that you R-CULTers insisted on will require traceback to the ranch. USDA has already stated what will be required and you are still trying to sell your R-CULT logic of how you THINK IT SHOULD BE.


Sandcheska: "All cattle entering this country are hot branded "CAN" or "M". As long as the boys at the border are doing their job, if the animal does not have a "M" or "CAN", it is of US origin. Since even a grade school kid can identify country of origin of any animal in the packer's pen via the brands or lack thereof, traceback needs to go no further back from there. That's one of the reasons R-CALF was opposed to traceback to the producers - it isn't needed."

Once again, this statement exposes the complete stupiditiy of your logic. Do you honestly believe that no state in the US has an "M"brand registered in every location? How dense can you be?

More importantly, branding the hide doesn't have a damn thing to do with tracking the beef that's under that hide.

This statement exposes your complete ignorance of beef fabrication and retail beef sales.


Sandcheska: "The packers have shown they can keep product seperate - they are already doing it with their premium, natural, and organic lines. If they can keep a "natural" animal's beef identified, they can keep a Canadian animal's beef identified."

Neither natural or organic lines have the "born, raised, and slaughter" designation requirements of "M"COOL. Another of your typical apples to watermelons comparisons.

This is another example of your blatant hypocrisy. On one hand you criticize the packers for "SUPPOSEDLY" hiding foreign beef behind the USDA stamp and in the next breath, you trust them to label foreign beef correctly without an enforceable traceback system. You're such a hypocrite.

In order to comply with the requirements of "M"COOL, proof of where each animal was "BORN, RAISED, AND SLAUGHTERED" will be required. There's no way around it. You will reap the stupidity that you have sewed.


NE dave: "All we gotta do is slap a USA brand on our cattle and call it good."

YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS ?????

There is numerous states or areas within states that don't have brand laws AND YOU WANT TO FORCE THEM INTO A 3 DIGIT BRAND ON THE HIDE which doesn't have anything to do with tracing the beef that's under that hide?

Do you know what a three digit brand would do in reducing the value of hides???


NE Dave: "There is a difference between an ID system and a traceback system."

Please explain!



~SH~
 
SH

I believe the M brand goes on the cheek.

You keep saying a animal branded on the hide does nothing for traceback on the beef from that animal. So what would work? An EID tag sure wouldn't work either then.

Back to the school lunch program.....the last line on page 7 says something to effect that the contractor will develop an ID system to keep track of and so on and so on.......
So if the product has to be of USA origin, how do they meet this requirement of having an ID and record system? and by the way, yes I have been told before that imported feeders finished in the USA could possibly be entered in the program even though I think that is against the spirit and intent of the rule.

I'm not saying I would advocate putting a USA brand on our cattle......but for sake of argument

The difference in ID and traceback ....well we brand the imports so their country of origin is ID'd. Remember we are talking about COOL here not disease traceback. An animal's country of origin ID can be generic without having an individual and unique code or number.
 
NE Dave: "I believe the M brand goes on the cheek."

Are you saying no "M" brand is registered on the cheek in any state?


NE Dave: "You keep saying a animal branded on the hide does nothing for traceback on the beef from that animal. So what would work? An EID tag sure wouldn't work either then."

Let's step back to the obvious. If you are going to have a law, it has to be enforceable. If you have a processing plant that slaughters mixed origin cattle (foreign and US), if all the cattle are not marked going into the plant, how can you prove the origin of the beef coming out in an enforceable manner? You can't short of cost prohibitive DNA testing. The only way to accomplish enforcing the requirements of "M"COOL will be with an enforceable traceback on all cattle entering the plant unless you force packers to slaughter only foreign or domestic cattle in certain shifts which the packers would fight tooth and nail because slaughter scheduling needs some flexibility.

Let's say you have a plant that slaughters 1000 head per day. In front of you is 3000 packages of beef marked "Product of Canada". You tell me how you are going to prove that is Canadian beef unless you have a traceback system on the origin of all cattle entering the plant?

What's ironic is that most R-CULTers have this idea in their head that consumers will prefer US beef. I'll bet you anything that they are wrong. The rare novelty item will have the marketing advantage and I can assure you that Canadian beef will mirror our best beef. Some of our best genetics in the US originated in Canada. The reputation of "northern cattle" didn't stop at the border simply because some R-CULTer thinks Canadian cattle are negatively impacting our cattle prices because they don't understand the concept of global markets and they don't understand the impact of corn prices.

What's so hypocritical about this law, is "M"COOL proponents accuse the large packers of hiding foreign beef behind the USDA grade stamp (implying US beef) but they're not willing to make their law enforceable with a traceback system. How hypocritical. They are suddenly willing to trust these large packers to label beef correctly without an enforceable traceback system. IF CANADIAN BEEF OUTSELLS US BEEF, WHICH IT VERY WELL COULD, WHAT IS TO KEEP A PACKER FROM LABELING US BEEF AS CANADIAN BEEF TO INCREASE HIS SALES???

Did the R-CULTers think of that when they were shouting "just mark the imports", "just mark the imports", "Don't burden me with traceback".

How ironic that those who claim to be in the "cattle industry" and not the "beef industry" think they know more about the "beef industry" than those who actually sell beef?

The arrogance of R-CALF!


ND Dave: "Back to the school lunch program.....the last line on page 7 says something to effect that the contractor will develop an ID system to keep track of and so on and so on......."

Yeh so what? That doesn't have a thing to do with the requirements of "M"COOL which demands proof of where the animal was "BORN, RAISED, AND SLAUGHTERED".



NE Dave: "So if the product has to be of USA origin, how do they meet this requirement of having an ID and record system?"

I already told you. The only exemptions for the school lunch program is foreign fat cattle going direct to slaughter and foreign beef that is already marked. That is not the same as a "born, raised, and processed in the US" requirement.


NE Dave: "and by the way, yes I have been told before that imported feeders finished in the USA could possibly be entered in the program even though I think that is against the spirit and intent of the rule."

Haha! Doesn't matter what the "spirit and intent of the rule was", either it's enforceable or it's not. Again, the only exemptions for the school lunch program are imported beef and imported cattle GOING DIRECT TO SLAUGHTER. Imported feeders that are fed in the US and slaughtered in the US become "US ORIGIN" by default.

There is no comparison between the school lunch program and the requirements of "M"COOL.


NE DAVE: "I'm not saying I would advocate putting a USA brand on our cattle......but for sake of argument"

It was a bad argument because you will not get non brand areas to require a brand without one hell of a fight. I grew up in a non brand area and I sure as hell don't want to have to brand when I have never had a problem with cattle theft. On the other hand, I can understand the importance of branding in certain areas especially where I live now.


NE Dave: "The difference in ID and traceback ....well we brand the imports so their country of origin is ID'd. Remember we are talking about COOL here not disease traceback. An animal's country of origin ID can be generic without having an individual and unique code or number."

I'm telling you Dave, and USDA has already made it clear, if we get Country of Origin Labeling, the only way you will enforce it is with a traceback system on all cattle entering plants that slaughter cattle of mixed origin to match the amount of imported beef going out of the plant.

"M"COOL is absolutely the dumbest law I have ever witnessed short of allowing the federal government to determine who will and who will not own cattle through the communist packer ban. As if packers shouldn't be allowed to bid on my feeder calves. Insane.

AND FOR WHAT??? Consumers aren't asking for "M"COOL, the foreign product is given novelty status as was proven with New Zealand lamb, the consumers who do want US BEEF can buy source verified beef now WHICH REQUIRES A TRACEBACK.

This law is a joke because a handful of import blamers thought they would save consumers from themselves and they didn't know that consumers are not loyal to US products as Walmart has proven.

"M"COOL is a totally worthless law from every standpoint.

There is value in traceback from a disease standpoint but there is no value in "M"COOL when 95% of the labeled beef, under this law as it's written, would be "US BEEF" anyway.

Consumer: "Ah....let's see, do I want the US beef or the US beef or the US beef of the US beef or the US Beef.............ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz!

Absolutely ridiculous!

As Rush Limbaugh would say, "SYMOBOLISM OVER SUBSTANCE"


~SH~
 
Sooooo......let's see here

Since we have no traceback system....there is no way the requirements for the school lunch program can be met either, at least not from a packing plant that processes imported cattle for slaughter.
 
SH, "Are you saying no "M" brand is registered on the cheek in any state?"

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

See what you're up against, Dave? And it'll go on and on and on and on.....
 
SH said:
...unless you force packers to slaughter only foreign or domestic cattle in certain shifts which the packers would fight tooth and nail because slaughter scheduling needs some flexibility.

See Dave, even SH admits MCOOL is workable without M-ID, but it isn't going to happen cause packers don't wanna!!!!!!!!!!!!! :P
 
There's just no way that scheduling Canadian cattle on, say Fridays would ever work - just no way! Everybody knows that when a fat is ready, it can't wait another day, it has to be slaughtered RIGHT NOW! :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
NE Dave: "Since we have no traceback system....there is no way the requirements for the school lunch program can be met either, at least not from a packing plant that processes imported cattle for slaughter."

Dave,

Do you have a hard time comprehending what you are reading???

The only exemptions for the school lunch program is imported fat cattle directly for slaughter and imported beef. Everything else is US origin. That is not the same as a "BORN, RAISED, AND PROCESSED IN THE US" designation.

More importantly, you don't even know whether the school lunch program requirements ARE BEING ENFORCED DO YOU???

Without a valid traceback to prove foreign origin, the enforcement of the school lunch program would be a farse. Once again, SYMOBOLISM OVER SUBSTANCE.

That just shows the total hypocrisy in the arguments of "M"COOL proponents. On one hand they accuse USDA of hiding foreign beef behind the USDA inspection stamp, on the other hand, they don't want to be burdened with traceback to prove origination TO MAKE THEIR STUPID LAW ENFORCEABLE.

What a bunch of damn hypocrites.

Prove to me that the US ORIGIN requirements of the school lunch program are being enforced. PROVE IT!

If the school lunch program is not being enforced, WHERE'S THE OUTCRY?????


Sandcheska: "See what you're up against, Dave? And it'll go on and on and on and on....."

That's right Little Sandcheska. The questions to these overly simplistic "cattle industry" solutions to beef industry problems will go on and on because packer blamers like you don't know a damn thing about the retail beef industry.


RM: "See Dave, even SH admits MCOOL is workable without M-ID, but it isn't going to happen cause packers don't wanna!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

It's not going to happen because it's not justified and it would be a logistic nightmare to segregate origin shifts in certain plants that rely on both foreign and domestic cattle WITHOUT A TRACEBACK ON ALL THE CATTLE (avoiding the inevitable SSI promotion).


Sandcheska: "There's just no way that scheduling Canadian cattle on, say Fridays would ever work - just no way! Everybody knows that when a fat is ready, it can't wait another day, it has to be slaughtered RIGHT NOW!"

What the heck does a "wanna be steer jock" "wanna be banker" know about slaughter scheduling?

Easy for you blamers to impose rules and regulations to the other segments of the industry that have no affect on you.

Packers and retailers of all shapes and sizes testified against your stupid short sighted law during "M"COOL listening sessions and all you heard from "M"COOL proponents was "don't burden me with traceback".

Heck, it's not like you'll ever realize the consequences of your narrow minded actions. Cattle prices fall and you blamers will find someone or something to blame ("packer concentration, captive supplies, imports") but you'd never know why. Facts have never mattered to you before, why start now?


"M"COOL will not be enforceable without an enforceable ID system, WRITE IT DOWN.


~SH~
 
~SH~ said:
RM: "See Dave, even SH admits MCOOL is workable without M-ID, but it isn't going to happen cause packers don't wanna!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

It's not going to happen because it's not justified and it would be a logistic nightmare to segregate origin shifts in certain plants that rely on both foreign and domestic cattle WITHOUT A TRACEBACK ON ALL THE CATTLE (avoiding the inevitable SSI promotion).


~SH~

"logistic nightmare"??????????????? Aren't we talking about less than 5% of slaughter cattle? Similar segragation happens every day.


SH said:
"M"COOL will not be enforceable without an enforceable ID system, WRITE IT DOWN.

I agree...the enforceable ID system will be FSIS inspectors not letting random 'M' or 'CAN' branded animal from being processed along with USA cattle.
 
Oldtimer said:
CN_Today 1/26/2007 9:02:00 AM


USDA Announces Results Of Nationwide Beef Checkoff Survey

WASHINGTON, Jan. 25, 2007 - Today, the U.S. Department of Agriculture announced the results of the Beef Checkoff Survey, which was conducted recently among beef, dairy, and veal producers nationwide.

From Oct. 4 through Nov. 21, 2006, the Gallup Organization, with oversight by USDA, interviewed 8,002 beef, dairy and veal producers across the nation to measure their attitudes regarding the Beef Checkoff Program. This program assesses $1-per-head on all cattle sold in the United States and $1-per-head equivalent on imported cattle, beef and beef products, to invest in programs aimed at increasing demand for beef and improving profit opportunities for cattle producers and importers who pay into the program. USDA oversees the program, which is administered by the Cattlemen's Beef Promotion and Research Board (Cattlemen's Beef Board).

The survey was conducted in response to a settlement agreement between Cattlemen's Beef Board and the Livestock Marketing Association as a result of a May 2005 U.S. Supreme Court decision, which ruled the Beef Promotion and Research Act constitutional. Checkoff dollars funded the survey and the dissemination of its results. Representatives of the USDA, Cattlemen's Beef Board, the Livestock Marketing Association, and the Federation of State Beef Councils worked together to develop the survey questions. Some highlights of the survey results are:

Seventy two (72) percent of those surveyed either strongly approved or somewhat approved of the Beef Checkoff Program. In a question on changes or improvements to the program, some respondents noted that they would like to see more advertising and more information about how checkoff funds are spent.

Sixty-six (66) percent of those surveyed would strongly approve or somewhat approve of the Cattlemen's Beef Board contracting directly "with any entity, including businesses, university researchers, advertising and marketing agencies, and other consultants." Less than 25 percent would disapprove of this move. Currently, the Beef Promotion and Research Act requires that the Cattlemen's Beef Board contract only with "established national nonprofit industry-governed organizations … to implement programs of promotion, research, consumer information and industry information."

Eighty two (82) percent of those surveyed would strongly approve or somewhat approve of "voting periodically on the continuation of the Beef Checkoff Program."

Ninety-two (92) percent of those surveyed would strongly agree or somewhat agree that "if it were possible, all or at least some portion of the Beef Checkoff dollars should be used to promote only U.S. born and raised beef." Currently, the program promotes beef, in general, and importers also pay into the program at $1-per-head on live animal imports and a $1-per-head equivalent on beef products. Even if promoting only U.S. born and raised beef meant canceling the checkoff assessment on imported beef and beef products, 75.4 percent of the survey respondents still strongly or somewhat agree that a portion of the checkoff dollars should be used to promote only U.S. beef. Currently, about $8 million or 10 percent of the total assessments collected comes from imports.

The results of the survey will be discussed in more detail during each of the respective group's 2007 annual meetings. For more information about the date and time the report will be discussed during these annual meetings, contact the Cattlemen's Beef Board at 1-800-388-2333, Livestock Marketing Association at 1-800-821-2048, or the Federation of State Beef Councils (National Cattlemen's Beef Association) at 303-694-0305. The final report will be available on USDA's web site at http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/mpb/rp-beef.htm on Jan. 25, 2007.


I get a laugh out of reading the press releases and articles that have come out after this survey was released... Two of them I've seen now- Meatingplace and Drovers- both print and rave up the number of folks (72%) that supported the checkoff...

But both forget and leave out of their article the part about the 82% wanting periodic votes on the checkoff-- and the part about the 92% voting to have the checkoff used to promote USA born, raised, and slaughtered beef....

If it doesn't fit the Packer/NCBA agenda- we'll just forget about it- even if its going against what 92% of the nations cattlemen want.... :???: Thats kind of fits my view of what NCBA has turned into.... :( :mad:
 
January 30, 2007 Phone: 406-672-8969; e-mail: [email protected]



Checkoff Survey Results Match Group's Policy Positions

Billings, Mont. – R-CALF USA Checkoff Committee Chair Jim Hanna said the organization is extremely encouraged by the results of the recently completed survey of cattle producers on the Beef Checkoff Program. The survey was conducted by the Gallup Organization.

"To have an overwhelming majority of those surveyed agree completely with R-CALF's policy positions gives us a tremendous boost as we begin to work with Congress to make needed changes to the program," Hanna said.



"Specifically, the survey showed that 66 percent of the producers polled would support the idea of allowing the Cattlemen's Beef Board (CBB) to contract directly with vendors, ending the requirement that they contract with an existing national industry governed organization, and 82 percent of respondents said they would support a periodic referendum on the Checkoff," he noted. "Ninety-one percent thought the current $1 per head assessment was adequate, while 92 percent wanted to use Checkoff dollars to support products derived from cattle that are specifically born, raised and processed in the United States.



"The survey also agreed with R-CALF's position that a producer-financed promotion program is critical to the financial health of the domestic cattle industry," Hanna continued. "I find it gratifying that R-CALF, as well as the Livestock Marketing Association (LMA) and the National Livestock Producers Association (NLPA) and others who have pushed these ideas all along, have received confirmation by 8,000 producers that we were promoting exactly the agenda items that are most important to them.



"Independent cattle producers across the U.S. have spoken, and done so with a nearly unanimous voice," Hanna emphasized. "This gives us the springboard we need to show Congress that the Beef Checkoff Act and Order is in need of review, and that R-CALF USA intends to be the leader in assuring that any changes made will be consistent with the wishes of U.S. cattle producers."

According to the CBB, the Beef Checkoff Program was established as part of the 1985 Farm Bill. The Checkoff assesses $1 per head on the sale of live domestic and imported cattle, in addition to a comparable assessment on imported beef and beef products. States retain up to 50 cents on the dollar and forward the other 50 cents per head to the Cattlemen's Beef Promotion and Research Board, which administers the national Beef Checkoff Program, subject to USDA approval.

Note: To view or download the survey results, visit: www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/mpb/rp-beef.htm.

# # #
 
The question is, is R-CULT willing to agree to an ID program to make the "M"COOL law enforceable so packers correctly identify foreign beef.

"M"COOL proponent: "Well ah....gee ah.....we were really hoping they would only have to identify foreign beef."

USDA: "that will not work"

"M"COOL proponent: "Well ah...gee ah......what if we use signed affidavits?"

USDA: "the law specifically requires proof of where the animal was born, raised, and processed. That's how you R-CULTers wrote the law"

"M"COOL proponent: "Well ah....gee ah.......


Hypocrites!


~SH~
 
Sandcheska: "There's a lot of simple ways to provide proof. We're not building rockets, just tagging a cow."

Not that will be accepted by USDA.

Most of your oversimplistic solutions will not be accepted.

Poor little R-CULTers are going to have to be "burdened with traceback" to prove their stupid law. Talk about shooting themselves in the foot.


~SH~
 
Cattle were identified, traded, and tracked long before anyone even invented eartags or RFID- and very successfully...They still can be...
 

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