Would anyone care to look up these 2 Angus bulls and give me their feedback on them? I have not seen these yet but been looking at some others and these seem to have a lot better numbers.
Go to the web site that Mike suggested and print out the two pedigrees. Compare them. Then compare them to OTHER bull's pedigrees. It would be pretty self -explanatory. They are half sibs. The $Values are not good. (They are LOUSY!) The birth weight and Milk EPD's are fine! Believe it or not! If you don't agree with me, PM me and I will elucidate! There are NO Carcass #'s on either one. The Ultrasound numbers are putrid on the one who is listed! I don't know what kind of cows you have, but you can do BETTER - whatever your cow herdtom4018 said:Would anyone care to look up these 2 Angus bulls and give me their feedback on them? I have not seen these yet but been looking at some others and these seem to have a lot better numbers.
Perhaps to the uninitiated, this ensuing discussion may appear to be another "WAR OF TWO WORLDS!" - - -WRONG! - - -Faster horses said:Very interesting the different way folks look at cattle. What Doc Harris mentioned wouldn't be what would cause me to shy away from these bulls. First and formost, I am not a number person, I am a pedigree person. I think numbers have gotten us in trouble. People breed cattle with high numbers to cattle with low numbers, they breed cattle with high numbers to cattle with higher numbers. What about FUNCTION?
What I would want to know about FIRST is the DAM to these bulls because replacement heifers are everything to us. Also, what do you intend to use them for? Terminal cross? Replacement heifers? For terminal cross I would definitely look at different things than for replacement heifers.
I also want to breed LIKE TO LIKE. In my opinion the individuals in this pedigree are not alike. 6807 is a moderate sized bull; as far as I know R&J Cattle are BIG. So no consistency there. Hoff cattle are HUGE. So you have moderate, BIG and HUGE. Nothing I would pick based on that alone. I want consistency.
What is the scrotal on the bulls? I would want to know that~why do we buy bulls? Yep, better watch the scrotal size.
Anyhow, that is just an example of the different way I view potential bulls over the way Doc Harris does. Doesn't mean he is right and I am wrong or vice-versa. Just different. The factory means the most to me. Not numbers.
ANDY;Andy said:FH(While we are on this subject, would someone take the time to explain the meaning of the $EN values? I think the numbers in this catagory work in reverse of what they appear; in that a plus is not necessarily a good thing. But I am not sure)
You are correct. The $en is what the daughters of a bull should cost in relation to an average cow. So a 5 would mean that cow will cost $5 more a year to keep around vs an average cow with a 0.
FH - I feel cut to the core! I was pleased with my discourse on EPD's a few posts ago, and I was hoping that you were totally convinced that there was some merit to their study and understanding. I will admit - it isn't easy to combine ALL of the information that is available at hand today, but - PERSEVERE - and be steadfast in your efforts to improve your breed stock. One should use what information is applicable to their needs - and - by the same token - AVOID those factors which are irrelevant to your needs of the moment. It is important to be aware of EVERYTHING, so as to be able to select what is important to your particular herd.Faster horses said:NR, I think you may have something there.
And all these other things now, Wean value, Feedlot value, Grid value, Beef value, $EN~I'm beginning to feel blown away. So rather than blow away, I'm just not going to pay that much attention to them. Who knows how accurate they are anyway?
Sometimes we can have TOO MUCH information.