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Compromise NOT

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Oldtimer said:
We need a compromise plan to get us out of 50+ years of building debt- both major spending cuts and tax reform/additional income....

"My friends and I have been coddled long enough by a billionaire-friendly Congress," he wrote. "It's time for our government to get serious about shared sacrifice."


Buffett to Congress: Don't 'coddle' me
By Aaron Smith @CNNMoney August 15, 2011: 9:20 AM ET




NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Billionaire investor Warren Buffett, saying he doesn't want to be "coddled" by Congress, says that wealthier Americans should pay higher taxes, and that higher taxes do not dampen job growth.

Buffett, chief executive of Berkshire Hathaway (BRKA, Fortune 500), wrote in an op-ed piece published Monday in The New York Times that taxes should be raised on Americans who make at least $1 million per year.

"While the poor and middle class fight for us in Afghanistan, and while most Americans struggle to make ends meet, we mega-rich continue to get our extraordinary tax breaks," wrote Buffett, who has mentioned in past interviews that the rich should pay higher taxes.

The philanthropist said that his 2010 federal tax bill, including income and payroll taxes, was $6,938,744.

"That sounds like a lot of money," wrote the Omaha, Neb.-based billionaire. "But what I paid was only 17.4% of my taxable income - and that's actually a lower percentage than was paid by any of the other 20 people in our office."

He added that some investment managers were taxed only 15% on billions of dollars in income. He compared that to the middle class, with its income tax bracket of up to 25%.



He said that 40 million jobs were created between 1980 and 2000, when the tax rate for the rich was higher than it is now. "You know what's happened since then: lower tax rates and far lower job creation," he wrote.

Buffett proposed that Congress impose a higher tax rate on millionaires, and an even higher tax rate on those making at least $10 million per year.

"My friends and I have been coddled long enough by a billionaire-friendly Congress," he wrote. "It's time for our government to get serious about shared sacrifice."



Buffett, a Wall Street guru who has made billions during his 60 years of investing, has pledged to donate 99% of his wealth to charity.

In a recent interview with Fortune, Buffett said he still believes the United States is an AAA-rated nation, despite the recent Standard & Poor's downgrade of the credit rating. He said he also continuing to buy stocks, because recent market volatility has created lots of deals.

Buffett is right: Raise taxes on the wealthy
By William G. Gale
August 15, 2011 7:17 p.m. EDT


(CNN) -- In Sunday's New York Times, Warren Buffett discusses the need to raise taxes on the wealthy. He's absolutely right. Tax increases, in general -- as well as tax increases on the wealthiest households, in particular -- need to be a part of the solution.

Past major budget agreements, such as the 1983 Social Security reforms and the 1990 and 1993 budget deals, ultimately included both revenue increases and spending cuts. It's not hard to see why: Cutting deficits from both sides of the budget provides a sense of fairness, shared sacrifice and political equilibrium.

Also, raising taxes to pay for current spending has proved more effective at restraining spending than allowing the government to finance its outlays with deficits. Every time we have tried to cut spending by restraining taxes, we have failed. In the 1980s under President Ronald Reagan and in the past decade under President George W. Bush, taxes fell, but spending rose. The only time in the past 30 years when spending fell was in the 1990s, under President Bill Clinton, when taxes were also raised.

Even the massive tax increases during and after World War II -- amounting to a permanent rise of 10% to 15% of gross domestic product -- and the much smaller tax increases in 1990 and 1993 did no discernible damage to U.S. economic growth.

If we are going to raise taxes as part of the fiscal solution, the tax burden on high-income, high-wealth households needs to rise. The recently enacted debt deal contains only spending cuts and has little or no impact on high-income households. Rather, it puts the entire burden of closing the fiscal gap on low- and middle-income households. High-income households should not be exempted from helping resolve the nation's fiscal problem.

Households in the top 1% of the distribution can afford to contribute. They have done enormously well during the past 30-plus years. In 1979, their income accounted for 10% of total income. According to the most recent data (from 2008), their share of total household income more than doubled to 21%. In contrast, real income for middle-class workers has remained roughly constant over the same time frame.

There are, of course, better and worse ways to raise taxes. A general goal would be to broaden the tax base -- reduce the use of specialized credits, deductions, loopholes and so on -- and minimize the extent to which tax rates need to rise.

One good place to start? High-income households: Limit the rate at which itemized deductions can occur to 28%. This would affect only households in the highest income ranges, it would not raise their official marginal tax rate, and it would raise $293 billion over the next decade, relative to how much money would be raised according to current law, according to the Congressional Budget Office. This would be a small move in the right direction.

Of course, sticking to current law revenues -- that is, either not extending the Bush tax cuts after their scheduled expiration date of 2012 or paying for any extension with a reduction in various tax expenditures -- is even more important. Extending the Bush tax cuts would reduce revenues by about $2.5 trillion over the next decade, relative to current law. Counting net interest savings, it would cost $3 trillion. Letting the cuts expire could actually help economic growth since the lower deficits would more than offset the effect of slightly lower marginal tax rates, and it would be progressive. That would be a big move in the right direction.

Eventually, the nation will need to deal with the ballooning costs of Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security for an aging population. Even if substantial cuts are made to these programs, the combination of a greatly expanded elderly population and higher federal net interest payments than in the past (because of the higher public debt/GDP ratio) will create a need for additional revenues. There are good options there as well, including a value-added tax -- the equivalent of a national consumption tax and a feature of the tax system of every industrialized country except the U.S. -- and higher energy taxes, to promote a cleaner environment as well as raise revenues.

None of this means that the U.S. needs to move to European taxation levels. But between the depleted tax revenues we raise now -- the lowest share of the economy in six decades -- and the high taxes experienced in European countries, there is plenty of room to raise revenues in an economically sound manner to support a reasonable level of government.

William G. Gale is the Arjay and Frances Miller Chair in Federal Economic Policy and the former vice president and director of the Economic Studies Program at the Brookings Institution. He conducts research on a variety of economic issues, focusing particularly on tax policy, fiscal policy, pensions and saving behavior. He is also co-director of the Tax Policy Center, a joint venture of the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute. Gale attended Duke University and the London School of Economics and received his Ph.D. from Stanford University in 1987.

Prior to joining Brookings in 1992, he was an assistant professor in the Department of Economics at the University of California, Los Angeles, and a senior staff economist for the Council of Economic Advisers under President George H.W. Bush.
 
hypocritexposer said:
OT, I thought government just funnels money to their corporate crony friends...why would you want to give them access too more?

You don't think they get it by way of "credit" money anyway? Did you forget about the Bush TARP?
Now we need to pay for it...

If we're really serious about paying off this debt- then we need a balanced approach- both reduced spending and increased revenue...

"My friends and I have been coddled long enough by a billionaire-friendly Congress," he wrote. "It's time for our government to get serious about shared sacrifice."
 
hopalong said:
Come on oldtimer you were asked questions now you won't answer them but want to ask another question!!???
Answer up before the next series of questions start!
You do not seem to grasp how discussions are handled
!!!
Is that how you handle your :):):) court room :D :D :D :D of course as a J.P. you probably never handle any REAL cases.

Do you see how oldtimer is trying to divert away from his slanderous comments about an honorable man that he was trying to discredit.
He has been called out on it- he has shown no proof to back up any of his claims-I have shown the text of an actual bill that Krayton sponsored and it passed. he has NOT and can NOT show anything to back up his claims.
right now if you were on the jury would you say oldtimer is guilty of perjury or has he proven his case beyond the shadow of a doubt?
have I proven mine? You decide.
In my book Krayton is a top notch man! Cream of the crop!
Oldtimer the burden of proof lies with you ante up or shut up!
 
Oldtimer said:
hypocritexposer said:
OT, I thought government just funnels money to their corporate crony friends...why would you want to give them access too more?

You don't think they get it by way of "credit" money anyway? Did you forget about the Bush TARP?
Now we need to pay for it...

If we're really serious about paying off this debt- then we need a balanced approach- both reduced spending and increased revenue...

"My friends and I have been coddled long enough by a billionaire-friendly Congress," he wrote. "It's time for our government to get serious about shared sacrifice."


Bush TARP was paid back, so obama said. But it still shows as debt....wonder why?



shared sacrifice? How about a "work for welfare" program, where those receiving taxpayer money actually help their community.
 
I wonder what would happen to charity donations, from the "rich" if you tax them more?

But that's what liberals want....they want to decide who the money goes to.


To be sure, the Kochs have given "more than a hundred million dollars to right wing causes" (which is their right, by the way). But in the last decade, it's also worth noting the Kochs have given more than $600 million in pledged or donated money to arts, education, and medical research, including (but not limited to):

New York-Presbyterian Hospital Weill Cornell: $15 million
M.D. Anderson Cancer Center: $25 million
The Hospital for Special Surgery: $26 million
Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center: $30 million
Prostate Cancer Foundation: $41 million
Deerfield Academy: $68 million
Lincoln Center's NY State Theater: $100 million
Massachusetts Institute of Technology: $139 million
 
OldTimer said:
Did you forget about the Bush TARP?

I wasn't for the TARP.. but..

Taxpayers have now recovered "more than 99% (about $244 billion) of the approximately $245 billion in total funds disbursed for TARP investments in banks," the Treasury said. The agency estimated that "bank programs within TARP will ultimately provide a lifetime profit of nearly $20 billion to taxpayers."

looks like bush wasn't such an idiot.. bailing out the banks apparently led to a profit..


afew other headlines..
Treasury announces $10 billion in TARP profit from banks

TARP Profit on Citigroup: $12.3 Billion - WSJ.com

TARP profit at least $16 bln so far: Treasury - MarketWatch

TARP Turns a Profit | Democrats.org

he Treasury Department is crowing about a new analysis that claims the government's massive bank bailout in response to the 2008 financial crisis will actually end up turning a profit of nearly $24 billion.

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said that while the government's overriding objective was to "break the back of the financial crisis and save American jobs," it didn't hurt that the TARP investments in U.S. banks "delivered a significant profit for taxpayers."

so in response.. no we haven't forgotten... $24 billion is a nice return on what was considered a bad investment..
 
hypocritexposer said:
shared sacrifice? How about a "work for welfare" program, where those receiving taxpayer money actually help their community.

I've supported workfare for years...But that alone can't remove everyone from welfare/aid as there are those with true chronic diseases that can't work....And the other drawback of workfare- is it often takes jobs away from the true workforce...A Catch 22 situation.
 
Oldtimer said:
hypocritexposer said:
shared sacrifice? How about a "work for welfare" program, where those receiving taxpayer money actually help their community.

I've supported workfare for years...But that alone can't remove everyone from welfare/aid as there are those with true chronic diseases that can't work....And the other drawback of workfare- is it often takes jobs away from the true workforce...A Catch 22 situation.


Leave the criminals in jail and bus the able bodies that receive government cheques out to the ditches, to pick up litter
 
hypocritexposer said:
Oldtimer said:
hypocritexposer said:
shared sacrifice? How about a "work for welfare" program, where those receiving taxpayer money actually help their community.

I've supported workfare for years...But that alone can't remove everyone from welfare/aid as there are those with true chronic diseases that can't work....And the other drawback of workfare- is it often takes jobs away from the true workforce...A Catch 22 situation.


Leave the criminals in jail and bus the able bodies that receive government cheques out to the ditches, to pick up litter

we have plenty of work to go around.. plenty.

curbs need painting, traffic lines are fading .. could use a coat of paint

parks could use a bit of gardening.

schools could use a few play-ground aides. a bit of help in the kitchen..

elderly need rides to the store. doctors,

city vehicles need the oil changed, tires rotated.. a good wash..

the list of work out there that needs doing is endless...

websites need updating,.. files need organizing..

and it doesn't mean we have to lay off existing employees..

if we are already paying a person.. there is no reason not to utilize them

cities have been managing on bare bones budgets because they have no cash and can't hire more..

the government can't give cash because it is going broke on social programs.. so how far would all the hundreds of welfare programs go in helping cities hire people..
 
Faster horses said:
In Montana, the union would throw a fit if the prisoners did any of
these things...it's been tried...sad, isn't it?


who cares if the unions throw a fit. Isn't it them that want everybody to "pitch in"?
 
Steve said:
hypocritexposer said:
Oldtimer said:
I've supported workfare for years...But that alone can't remove everyone from welfare/aid as there are those with true chronic diseases that can't work....And the other drawback of workfare- is it often takes jobs away from the true workforce...A Catch 22 situation.


Leave the criminals in jail and bus the able bodies that receive government cheques out to the ditches, to pick up litter

we have plenty of work to go around.. plenty.

curbs need painting, traffic lines are fading .. could use a coat of paint

parks could use a bit of gardening.

schools could use a few play-ground aides. a bit of help in the kitchen..

elderly need rides to the store. doctors,

city vehicles need the oil changed, tires rotated.. a good wash..

the list of work out there that needs doing is endless...

websites need updating,.. files need organizing..

and it doesn't mean we have to lay off existing employees..

if we are already paying a person.. there is no reason not to utilize them

cities have been managing on bare bones budgets because they have no cash and can't hire more..

the government can't give cash because it is going broke on social programs.. so how far would all the hundreds of welfare programs go in helping cities hire people..

Those are all jobs being done now- either by government employees or contracted out to local business's... What do you have the existing employees do? What do the local business's do when their business drops off? What do you do with those losing those jobs?

I spent years using prisoners- and have sentenced many juveniles to workfare to put in so many hours working for the city/county... Had the normal employees become their supervisors...But at the same time some praise you for that- others are upset because it is losing them jobs and taking away their business...

One of the big issues involving using workfare/jail inmates/etc. is job related injuries- and the higher cost it puts on the total Workmans Comp. fund... Some of these folks don't have the brain cells to operate a screwdriver- and are dangerous trying to do any job..
 
Oldtimer said:
Steve said:
hypocritexposer said:
Leave the criminals in jail and bus the able bodies that receive government cheques out to the ditches, to pick up litter

we have plenty of work to go around.. plenty.

curbs need painting, traffic lines are fading .. could use a coat of paint

parks could use a bit of gardening.

schools could use a few play-ground aides. a bit of help in the kitchen..

elderly need rides to the store. doctors,

city vehicles need the oil changed, tires rotated.. a good wash..

the list of work out there that needs doing is endless...

websites need updating,.. files need organizing..

and it doesn't mean we have to lay off existing employees..

if we are already paying a person.. there is no reason not to utilize them

cities have been managing on bare bones budgets because they have no cash and can't hire more..

the government can't give cash because it is going broke on social programs.. so how far would all the hundreds of welfare programs go in helping cities hire people..

Those are all jobs being done now- either by government employees or contracted out to local business's... What do you have the existing employees do? What do the local business's do when their business drops off? What do you do with those losing those jobs?

what existing employees?. we have so little cash we laid off the entire public works for a month.. and only brought half back..


cities, states and businesses are all cutting back..they are all laying off people. this state is well beyond broke..

are you really that clueless?

I haven't heard of one case of a welfare person being laid off yet..
 
hypocritexposer said:
the ones that can't operate a screwdriver are the ones that should be bussed out to a farm to pick stones

everyone has a skill level.. paying them to sit idle is killing our country..

I thank GOD I have a pension and investments cause it isn't pretty..

on the way into town today I was a bit shocked.. in the first three blocks of a business district there is a closed auto repair shop. a closed diner, two vacant buildings, a closed exterminators office, three closed gas stations.. and a for sale sign on every building or lot,.. last year this was coveted land..
 
Steve said:
hypocritexposer said:
the ones that can't operate a screwdriver are the ones that should be bussed out to a farm to pick stones

everyone has a skill level.. paying them to sit idle is killing our country..

I thank GOD I have a pension and investments cause it isn't pretty..

on the way into town today I was a bit shocked.. in the first three blocks of a business district there is a closed auto repair shop. a closed diner, two vacant buildings, a closed exterminators office, three closed gas stations.. and a for sale sign on every building or lot,.. last year this was coveted land..

And with the high cattle and grain prices business's are doing quite well here even after we suffered thru quite a bit of crop/income loss from the Winter from Hell and 3 months flooding...

I have heard that 150 miles east of me- bedrooms/sleeping rooms are renting out at $1000+ month (if you can find any)- and they are advertising for waitress type work at the Taco Johns advertising a salary of $18 an hour.....
 
Oldtimer said:
Steve said:
hypocritexposer said:
the ones that can't operate a screwdriver are the ones that should be bussed out to a farm to pick stones

everyone has a skill level.. paying them to sit idle is killing our country..

I thank GOD I have a pension and investments cause it isn't pretty..

on the way into town today I was a bit shocked.. in the first three blocks of a business district there is a closed auto repair shop. a closed diner, two vacant buildings, a closed exterminators office, three closed gas stations.. and a for sale sign on every building or lot,.. last year this was coveted land..

And with the high cattle and grain prices business's are doing quite well here even after we suffered thru quite a bit of crop/income loss from the Winter from Hell and 3 months flooding...

I have heard that 150 miles east of me- bedrooms/sleeping rooms are renting out at $1000+ month (if you can find any)- and they are advertising for waitress type work at the Taco Johns advertising a salary of $18 an hour.....


yet spending has to be increased to extend unemployment benefits etc, because of the "Bush bust" :lol:
 
hypocritexposer said:
Oldtimer said:
Steve said:
everyone has a skill level.. paying them to sit idle is killing our country..

I thank GOD I have a pension and investments cause it isn't pretty..

on the way into town today I was a bit shocked.. in the first three blocks of a business district there is a closed auto repair shop. a closed diner, two vacant buildings, a closed exterminators office, three closed gas stations.. and a for sale sign on every building or lot,.. last year this was coveted land..

And with the high cattle and grain prices business's are doing quite well here even after we suffered thru quite a bit of crop/income loss from the Winter from Hell and 3 months flooding...

I have heard that 150 miles east of me- bedrooms/sleeping rooms are renting out at $1000+ month (if you can find any)- and they are advertising for waitress type work at the Taco Johns advertising a salary of $18 an hour.....


yet spending has to be increased to extend unemployment benefits etc, because of the "Bush bust" :lol:

No housing...This is not the type country where you can camp the year away in a tent....They are building mancaves out of freight cars- but still not enough to go around... But the folks with houses to rent out are making good money- as well as those with an oil well in the back yard...

I talked with a lady the other day that said if you go down the highway by Williston you will meet 50 semis for every car...
 
Oldtimer said:
hypocritexposer said:
Oldtimer said:
And with the high cattle and grain prices business's are doing quite well here even after we suffered thru quite a bit of crop/income loss from the Winter from Hell and 3 months flooding...

I have heard that 150 miles east of me- bedrooms/sleeping rooms are renting out at $1000+ month (if you can find any)- and they are advertising for waitress type work at the Taco Johns advertising a salary of $18 an hour.....


yet spending has to be increased to extend unemployment benefits etc, because of the "Bush bust" :lol:

No housing...This is not the type country where you can camp the year away in a tent....They are building mancaves out of freight cars- but still not enough to go around... But the folks with houses to rent out are making good money- as well as those with an oil well in the back yard...

I talked with a lady the other day that said if you go down the highway by Williston you will meet 50 semis for every car...


OT, do you not think I know what a "boom" can be like. We had a 3% unemployment rate in Alberta just a few years ago. You're not telling me anything I don't know, except you are not even close to the "boom" level we were at.

and even with the "boom" Montana is experiencing, you are still not at the employment levels we are at in Alberta.

Now, about those lies and false accusations. WWJD?
 

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