Cool Compromise

[Bill]

What Canada became is a very good situational example, first because of the amount of product coming in--but especially after the discovery of BSE in Canada and the eventual widespread proportionallity of the disease--that the proponents of M-COOL used to full advantage to make the US consumer aware of the fraud and deception being perpetrated on them with the USDA's meat labeling laws...Same as they did with the Chinese purposely adultered pet products....

And it appears to have worked... Have you been watching Lou Dobbs for the last couple of weeks? I think his coverage and the whole networks coverage has done more for showing the fraudulent labeling laws, lack of inspection/government oversight of foreign products, dangers associated with many of the imports--and done more to promote US products than anything else....Even more than the MSNBC expose of a few years ago and their gross undercover videos of the Mexican slaughterhouses- and their reports on how USDA fails to act on them even after being exposed by the GAO and Inspector Generals Office.....

Once again its more about someone taking advantage of the situation than anything else, whether it is Dobbs to attract viewers or R-Calf to target Canadians. It's all about whipping Americans into a frenzy isn't it?

the eventual widespread proportionallity of the disease

Find a few new words in the lateat R-Koran? :roll:

 

[MoGal]

You all evidently haven't read the six page article I posted the link on another thread about Americans have lost wages over the last ten years. The only ones increasing their wages are the top ten percent, the other 90 percent have lost wages.

This creates PROTECTIONISM among Americans. We see our entire market going overseas in the name of global trade and we've seen lower paying jobs come back in replacement, lower quality products that aren't even safe and yet the cost hasn't gone down........ now who is greedy??

This protectionism comes through promoting our own American products to the American people. I see it as reducing our trade deficit that we've had for the last 30 years. The federal government can wheel and deal all they want to with global trade but they can't force the consumer to spend their money where they don't want to and what part doesn't anyone understand???? WE WANT AMERICAN!!!!

 

[Anonymous]

You all evidently haven't read the six page article I posted the link on another thread about Americans have lost wages over the last ten years. The only ones increasing their wages are the top ten percent, the other 90 percent have lost wages.

This creates PROTECTIONISM among Americans. We see our entire market going overseas in the name of global trade and we've seen lower paying jobs come back in replacement, lower quality products that aren't even safe and yet the cost hasn't gone down........ now who is greedy??

This protectionism comes through promoting our own American products to the American people. I see it as reducing our trade deficit that we've had for the last 30 years. The federal government can wheel and deal all they want to with global trade but they can't force the consumer to spend their money where they don't want to and what part doesn't anyone understand???? WE WANT AMERICAN!!!!

Your right MoGal...Folks don't remember but our getting deeper involvement in WTO and NAFTA were not that supported when they happened-- may not have even passed a popular vote if it had been allowed....There were huge demonstrations against Clinton's involvement...

But since then many of the proponents (which I was originally) have found out they were lied to by the Government/Politicians/Corporate World-- and all the promises they had given about NAFTA never came to be....It turned into being a boon to just the big Multinational corporates and a bust for the working man and small business-- which as Ronald Reagan said is the backbone of this country.....

The continued wild run of FTA's, along with the failure to close our borders to illegal and dangerous imports and illegal immigrants, is one of the reasons the popularity across the nation of our President/Administration and lawmakers are all below 30% favorable.....The government (Clinton and Bush) can juggle the figures all they want on National profits and inflation-- but the common person can see the inflation rate they keep putting out for the past 10 years of 2-3% is actually running closer to 6-8% right now-- and the only profits coming in are going to the Big Corporates and the politicians they stuff the pockets of....

But many of these politicians are seeing that no matter how much campaign money the Corporates filter into their pockets-- Corporations don't vote and its the numbers of voters (populist movements) that are carrying the day....Both the immigration vote and ex- Representative Gonzales from Texas are good examples....

 

[Sandhusker]

This is and has been all about Canada for many COOL supporters despite their now thinly veiled comments.

Many COOL supporters? I think about ALL COOL supporters. Canada was always the target for COOL, as the other countries imports don't amount to a hill of beans. Our politicians have always been good at playing producers against one another for the good of the corporations, and radical organizations like R-Calf and the NFU are easy pawns in the game.

Rod

I don't understand what you're afraid of, Rod. If you've got a good product, you can now actually market it.

 

[Sandhusker]

Oldtimer wrote--- "thats what M-COOL was for....To give folks an honest, informed, choice..."



Oldtimer, M-COOL was never about giving the consumer a honest informed choice! It was formed to keep Canadian cattle out of the USA, and you know that.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

How is it going to keep Canadian cattle out?

 

[Kato]

If it was up to Lou Dobbs you guys would have a fence twenty feet high around the whole country, with one way gates every few miles to allow American exports. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

We see our entire market going overseas in the name of global trade and we've seen lower paying jobs come back in replacement, lower quality products that aren't even safe and yet the cost hasn't gone down........ now who is greedy??

This protectionism comes through promoting our own American products to the American people. I see it as reducing our trade deficit that we've had for the last 30 years. The federal government can wheel and deal all they want to with global trade but they can't force the consumer to spend their money where they don't want to and what part doesn't anyone understand???? WE WANT AMERICAN!!!!

I understand that you WANT AMERICAN. Go for it. :!: We all want to buy Canadian too. I just don't think that MCOOL is going to do anything to any cattle producer's bottom line. There are so many better places to put this energy.

Has anyone ever sat back and wondered why your markets are going overseas???? I don't think they're going in the name of global trade at all. That's just the spin that is put on it. Real trade involves a two way street. (Canada imported 96.5 billion dollars in American goods in 2006 - close to $300 per person)

The problem is within your own country, not with foreign countries. Sure you get a lot of imported goods, but who is making them? A large part of the companies are American owned. Walmart is one of China's largest trading partners. Talk to Walmart about trade deficits. What is Walmart buying from you? Nothing. They're just selling it to you. And hiring you at minimum wage to sell it. :shock: They are doing it to us too. :shock: :shock: Lots of people up here just don't shop there because if it.

I would say the trade deficit is more likely a result of your strong currency, combined with American based large corporations who have learned that it is much cheaper to set up shop in Mexico and pay people $5.00 a day than it is to hire your own citizens. We have Mexicans coming here to work on vegetable farms in the summer who are very happy to have minimum wages with overtime, because they make more in one hour than they do in one day at home. I bet that if a real effort went into raising the standard of living in Mexico, that there would not be an endless stream of people sneaking across the border.

However, there is one thing that's going to affect trade and imports far more than putting barriers up against 5% of your beef imports. That's the fact that your dollar is now dropping like a stone. This will make imports much more expensive, so it really will be true that you're not going to get a better quality at a cheaper price. Just the opposite. It will be interesting to see how all this plays out.

We are an export dependant country, so a cheap dollar is good for us, as it helps the prices for our commodities. You really don't export nearly as much of anything as you consume it at home, so a cheap dollar is going to only raise your cost of living. Your lower dollar has raised our dollar in comparison, and we are already feeling the pain from that. :roll: :roll: It's a lose lose situation all around.

This is all much bigger than any border dispute, or special interest groups campaigns. It's all set out in the world's money trading markets.

 

[RobertMac]

Simple question for you Canadians...do you think your product will sell if it is labeled as a product of Canada?

 

[Bill]

Kato, the numbers from the US gov't as it relates to trade between the US and Canada for 2006 are US exports to Canada: 230,656.0 BILLION dollars worth while Canada sent 302,437.9 BILLION dollars worth to the US.

http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c1220.html#2006

Canada's population is around 33,000,000.00 so that is just under $7000.00 for every Canadian man, woman and child spent on US goods in 2006.

 

[Ben Roberts]

Oldtimer wrote--- "thats what M-COOL was for....To give folks an honest, informed, choice..."



Oldtimer, M-COOL was never about giving the consumer a honest informed choice! It was formed to keep Canadian cattle out of the USA, and you know that.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

How is it going to keep Canadian cattle out?

My error, I should have said beef instead of cattle, sorry.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

 

[Sandhusker]

Oldtimer wrote--- "thats what M-COOL was for....To give folks an honest, informed, choice..."



Oldtimer, M-COOL was never about giving the consumer a honest informed choice! It was formed to keep Canadian cattle out of the USA, and you know that.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

How is it going to keep Canadian cattle out?

My error, I should have said beef instead of cattle, sorry.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

How is going to keep Canadian beef out?

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

I don't understand what you're afraid of, Rod. If you've got a good product, you can now actually market it.

This is the way I see COOL being played out:

1) First, its going to be much more expensive than any of you expect, just like seafood COOL was.

2) Chicken, which is beef's primary competitor will not be subjected to the same competitive disadvantage (doesn't this SCREAM Tyson involvement to you guys? Why is chicken, one of the most dangerous of all proteins, not being subjected to something that is supposedly about food safety?)

3) Low end beef demand will be replaced by chicken. A healthy portion of Canadian beef that makes its way south is low end grind.

4) High end Canadian beef will find a niche in the US while the grind stays here in Canada, reducing the price we recieve on our low end and cull cattle. We're already having trouble keeping high end Canadian beef on Canadian shelves, so I don't want to see even more leave. We're not going to get more money out of it, since demand is already high and the US dollar is weak.

5) US producers will see that they are not receiving more money for their product, and are indeed losing money due to higher than expected overhead.

6) Those producers and the likes of R-Calf and the NFU will then seek to have US beef exempted from labelling laws. The government will cave in to these protectionist organizations, and an artifical trade barrier will be erected. Canada gets screwed again, while our politicians bend over for the eagle.

You guys get smart with COOL. Make sure all proteins from all countries are included and ensure that COOL doesn't give your government a good reason to drop SA and Australian tariffs and I'll be happy.

In the short term, we'll hurt a little up here because of our excess grind and lack of high end beef, but we'll adjust. Its time Canadian cattle producers adjusted away from commodity beef anyway.

And RM, in response to your question, Canadian beef will sell in the US, even if you force us to cut it into big maple leafs. I'm not even remotely concerned about the ability of a Canadian steak to compete head to head against ANY beef from ANYWHERE. After all, theres a reason why Canadian beef wins world trial after world trial.

Rod

 

[Sandhusker]

) First, its going to be much more expensive than any of you expect, just like seafood COOL was.

HOW? How can something so simple be expensive?

2) Chicken, which is beef's primary competitor will not be subjected to the same competitive disadvantage (doesn't this SCREAM Tyson involvement to you guys? Why is chicken, one of the most dangerous of all proteins, not being subjected to something that is supposedly about food safety?)

Rod, Tyson's involvement was AGAINST COOL! The AMI was fighting COOL with everything they had. You know as well as I do that Tyson and the AMI are on the same page. That should tell you something - beef will not be at a competitive disadvantage to chicken.

3) Low end beef demand will be replaced by chicken. A healthy portion of Canadian beef that makes its way south is low end grind.

How does COOL have anything to do with this? Low end beef is low end beef no matter the source and is already being sold. If this were true, wouldn't Tyson be in favor it it as chicken is their higher margin product?

4) High end Canadian beef will find a niche in the US while the grind stays here in Canada, reducing the price we recieve on our low end and cull cattle. We're already having trouble keeping high end Canadian beef on Canadian shelves, so I don't want to see even more leave. We're not going to get more money out of it, since demand is already high and the US dollar is weak.

5) US producers will see that they are not receiving more money for their product, and are indeed losing money due to higher than expected overhead.

Again, where are all these costs you talk about going to come from?

6) Those producers and the likes of R-Calf and the NFU will then seek to have US beef exempted from labelling laws. The government will cave in to these protectionist organizations, and an artifical trade barrier will be erected. Canada gets screwed again, while our politicians bend over for the eagle.

Nope

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Rod, Tyson's involvement was AGAINST COOL! The AMI was fighting COOL with everything they had. You know as well as I do that Tyson and the AMI are on the same page. That should tell you something - beef will not be at a competitive disadvantage to chicken.

Scenario: Tyson's pet senator or congressman sez "Sorry boys, I fought it, but lost."

Tyson sez "Well, toss us a bone then and get chicken exempted."

Pet senator "I'll see what I can do."

This kind of thing happens constantly. Current EPA regs are _nothing_ like originally proposed. The emissions requirements that are set to take place in 2012 were actually supposed to be implemented LAST YEAR as was originally proposed. Why the delay? Detroit fought to have them first cancelled, then when they couldn't achieve that, they were tossed a bone to have them delayed. Tyson being the largest protein processor in the US has a pile of political weight to throw around. You know this and you know how it influences the decisions your politicians make.

How does COOL have anything to do with this? Low end beef is low end beef no matter the source and is already being sold. If this were true, wouldn't Tyson be in favor it it as chicken is their higher margin product?

Tyson knows that COOL isn't going to add premiums to anything but rather add cost. You raise the cost of hamburger a few cents/lb and consumption WILL drop to be replaced by chicken. You need to look at the demand curves of chicken and beef. There are literally dozens of them floating around that Universities and Colleges have done.

Rod

 

[Sandhusker]

Rod, "Tyson knows that COOL isn't going to add premiums to anything but rather add cost. You raise the cost of hamburger a few cents/lb and consumption WILL drop to be replaced by chicken. You need to look at the demand curves of chicken and beef. There are literally dozens of them floating around that Universities and Colleges have done. "

That would play into Tyson's favor - they make more money on chicken. But, they were against COOL.....

 

[Ben Roberts]

How is it going to keep Canadian cattle out?

My error, I should have said beef instead of cattle, sorry.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

How is going to keep Canadian beef out?

As the labeling law is now, it won't. Thats why i've said all along "I don't see the significance in it."

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

 

[RobertMac]

As the labeling law is now, it won't. Thats why i've said all along "I don't see the significance in it."

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

If there is no significance in COOL, why are the packers fighting it so hard?

 

[RobertMac]

You guys get smart with COOL. Make sure all proteins from all countries are included and ensure that COOL doesn't give your government a good reason to drop SA and Australian tariffs and I'll be happy.

Are we the selective protectionist!!!!! :roll: You want us to keep out and/or limit SA and Aust. beef, but open the door with no limits to Canadian beef!?!?

You have yet to answer where the high cost of COOL will come. Tell me how much Wal-Mart pays for COOL on all their products they sell that aren't on the J-List? Nothing, nada, not one red cent!!! Why???? Because those products come with a label that has the country of origin printed on it. Fact...beef coming out of a processing plant has to have a label on it if it is intended for resale. Everyone down the line simply has to pass that information on.

COOL will hold importers accountable for the quality of beef they bring in...quality beef will sell...junk beef won't. COOL will limit multi-nationals from bringing in anything just to increase beef supplies to force down live cattle prices while passing it of as USA beef with a USDA stamp. (Ben, another question...if the USDA stamp was the best marketing tool for packers, why wouldn't a "Product of USA" stamp do the same?)

As for the grind...the fast food market is the largest user of grind (in fact, all beef). The last time I looked, burgers were priced comparable or cheaper than chicken.

Look at who you are believing on COOL.

 

[Ben Roberts]

As the labeling law is now, it won't. Thats why i've said all along "I don't see the significance in it."

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

If there is no significance in COOL, why are the packers fighting it so hard?

They don't see the significance in COOL, and why would anyone want extra cost without extra benefits.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

 

[Ben Roberts]

RobertMac wrote-"COOL will hold importers accountable for the quality of beef they bring in...quality beef will sell...junk beef won't. COOL will limit multi-nationals from bringing in anything just to increase beef supplies to force down live cattle prices while passing it of as USA beef with a USDA stamp. (Ben, another question...if the USDA stamp was the best marketing tool for packers, why wouldn't a "Product of USA" stamp do the same?)"


Beef will sell, the price may have to be adjusted, but all beef will sell.

The Meat Inspection Act of 1906 was the greatest form of advertisement the packers ever had. Why would the packers want to change that fact. We have four packers (world wide) in control today, why would those packers want to limit their marketing ability, for their product processed outside of the USA, that carries the USDA inspected stamp required by that same act in 1906, by labeling "Product of USA".


Look at who you are believing on COOL.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

 

[MoGal]

The packer isn't going to see "extra benefits" because now the consumer will be informed. Informed so they can make choices..... if a consumer continually asks for a certain type of beef, that retailer will be trying to increase sales by satisfying his consumer by providing that product.

have you tried to buy a loaf of "gluten free" bread? My sisterinlaw, for health reasons, is on a gluten free diet and I've only found 2 stores (Schnucks and the health food store, both of which are 18 miles away and since my SIL doesn't drive, guess who gets to do the footwork?) that I can buy it from.