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Damn shame,with all the hungry people in the world

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rancher

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TimH said:
Sandhusker said:
TimH said:
Sandhusker wrote...


Let me put it this way... Is Australian beef,or that of any other BSE free country, safer(BSE-wise) than USA beef? You have already stated that you believe USA beef poses a risk.

"Consumers should do whatever they think is right for them...."

Would "what is right for them" include buying imported beef if they perceived it to be safer than domestic?? If it was cheaper? If it was better quality? :?

I think they should be able to buy whatever they want to for whatever reasons they may have.

So if they wanted to buy beef for reasons of food safety (BSE concerns)) which would be the safer product, USA(risky with SRM's removed) or Australian(BSE free country/no SRM removal)??? :?

Sad part is no one really knows!
 

Sandhusker

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TimH said:
Sandhusker said:
TimH said:
Sandhusker wrote...


Let me put it this way... Is Australian beef,or that of any other BSE free country, safer(BSE-wise) than USA beef? You have already stated that you believe USA beef poses a risk.

"Consumers should do whatever they think is right for them...."

Would "what is right for them" include buying imported beef if they perceived it to be safer than domestic?? If it was cheaper? If it was better quality? :?

I think they should be able to buy whatever they want to for whatever reasons they may have.

So if they wanted to buy beef for reasons of food safety (BSE concerns)) which would be the safer product, USA(risky with SRM's removed) or Australian(BSE free country/no SRM removal)??? :?

What do you think? I guess that would depend on if they thought Australia was BSE free or if they simply hadn't found it yet.
 

TimH

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Sandhusker wrote...
What do you think? I guess that would depend on if they thought Australia was BSE free or if they simply hadn't found it yet.

What do I think?? I think you are one hell of a dancer the way you two-step around answering any questions.(I've lost count)
I also think that SRM removal insures the safety of muscle cuts of beef(at least until more is known about they way in which TSE's are transmitted)Apparently you do not.
The Texas cow was 12 years old. So was the US BSE free up to the day they found her, or was it "they simply hadn't found it yet"??Was she the only one??
I also have serious doubts about any real connection between BSE and vCJD as well as the feed transmission theory.I wish that someone would come out and say that BSE is DEFINITELY caused by contaminated feed.It would take me about 10 minutes to prove that not 1 animal on my place has ever eaten a protein supplement containing animal protein and would therefore be BSE free.Same would probably go for most of the beef cattle producers across North America... Except for maybe a few bankers that just raise club calves as a hobby and will feed them anything that is cheap and puts the pounds on them.
I realize that any of these concerns don't fit with folks like you that would gladly use ANY excuse to disrupt trade and whip up donations to a useless money-pit organization such as R-calf.
You seem to think you are quite clever in the way you side-step giving any real answers. The reality is, that anyone with an IQ of more than 75 can clearly see exactly how weak your position actually is.
That's what I think, Sandhusker......remember...you asked. :roll:
 

Sandhusker

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TimH said:
Sandhusker wrote...
What do you think? I guess that would depend on if they thought Australia was BSE free or if they simply hadn't found it yet.

What do I think?? I think you are one hell of a dancer the way you two-step around answering any questions.(I've lost count)
I also think that SRM removal insures the safety of muscle cuts of beef(at least until more is known about they way in which TSE's are transmitted)Apparently you do not.
The Texas cow was 12 years old. So was the US BSE free up to the day they found her, or was it "they simply hadn't found it yet"??Was she the only one??
I also have serious doubts about any real connection between BSE and vCJD as well as the feed transmission theory.I wish that someone would come out and say that BSE is DEFINITELY caused by contaminated feed.It would take me about 10 minutes to prove that not 1 animal on my place has ever eaten a protein supplement containing animal protein and would therefore be BSE free.Same would probably go for most of the beef cattle producers across North America... Except for maybe a few bankers that just raise club calves as a hobby and will feed them anything that is cheap and puts the pounds on them.
I realize that any of these concerns don't fit with folks like you that would gladly use ANY excuse to disrupt trade and whip up donations to a useless money-pit organization such as R-calf.
You seem to think you are quite clever in the way you side-step giving any real answers. The reality is, that anyone with an IQ of more than 75 can clearly see exactly how weak your position actually is.
That's what I think, Sandhusker......remember...you asked. :roll:

I answered your questions, Tim. If you want me to say something specific, maybe you should just put some words in my mouth. You asked for opinions and I gave them.

You think SRM removal does the trick? Fine, that's your opinion. I don't think it makes any sense that the prions would move from the stomach to SRMs and then reside only there. I do think it takes some big ones for you to blast me on my opinion on BSE when nobody still knows for sure how it is transmitted, where it came from, or even if UTM cattle can pass it without tripping a test, etc.... The truth of the matter is that you don't KNOW anymore than I do.

If you want to go on a personal attack, you go ahead. It shows the strength of your case and your carachter. Yes, I asked. Guess I'll know better next time.
 

TimH

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Sandhusker wrote..
If you want me to say something specific, maybe you should just put some words in my mouth

Why can't you say anything specific all on your own??

If you want to go on a personal attack, you go ahead. It shows the strength of your case and your carachter. Yes, I asked. Guess I'll know better next time.

Where was the personal attack, Sandhusker??? Are you referring to the "banker" comment? Can you prove I was talking about you personally?? See how easy it is to play your little word games!!!

I will however take part of my post back........the part about the IQ of 75. I take that back. It should read " IQ of 50".

The fact is , Sandhusker, that in your R-calf zeal to use BSE as an excuse to block imports, you are willing to say that eating domestic USA beef is a genuine risk of death ,even with the SRM's removed.
You are just too arrogant to realize that that is what you have said. And the really sad part is , that you and the R-calf leadership don't even care what this might do to consumer confidence in beef products, foreign or domestic, as long as those donations keep rolling in via all the lies and fear mongering directed at producers who truly believe they are doing the right thing by supporting R-calf. Shame on you, I say.

You go ahead and accuse me of making a personal attack on you. It is SOP for someone who is WRONG to rally the troops by playing the sympathy card.
I fart in your general direction. :mad:
 

Sandhusker

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Tim, you're just torked at me because you weren't asking questions for my opinion, you were just trying to steer me to making a certain comment you could pounce on, and I didn't take your bait. I saw you coming a mile away.

If you want to talk arrogance, try looking in the mirror. Nobody KNOWS a heck of a lot about BSE -we only have ideas. You can ignore those facts if you choose and pretend you've got the answers, I'm not prepared to do the same.

You can also lampoon R-CALF all you want, does't really matter. I just lump you into the category of "blind basher". You can't figure out all the damage to consumer confidence and word games have come from the USDA, not R-CALF.

I have to laugh at you pointing your finger at R-CALF and hollering "trade disrupters". You need to take a look at how your own government handles other countries with BSE. The similarities might shock you. But hey, you don't have to trade with us, there is a whole world out there. You're free to trade with someone else (if the USDA will let you).

R-CALF is the source of all your problems, Tim. Keep telling yourself that inbetween farts. :lol:
 

TimH

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Sandhusker said:
Tim, you're just torked at me because you weren't asking questions for my opinion, you were just trying to steer me to making a certain comment you could pounce on, and I didn't take your bait. I saw you coming a mile away.

If you want to talk arrogance, try looking in the mirror. Nobody KNOWS a heck of a lot about BSE -we only have ideas. You can ignore those facts if you choose and pretend you've got the answers, I'm not prepared to do the same.

You can also lampoon R-CALF all you want, does't really matter. I just lump you into the category of "blind basher". You can't figure out all the damage to consumer confidence and word games have come from the USDA, not R-CALF.

I have to laugh at you pointing your finger at R-CALF and hollering "trade disrupters". You need to take a look at how your own government handles other countries with BSE. The similarities might shock you. But hey, you don't have to trade with us, there is a whole world out there. You're free to trade with someone else (if the USDA will let you).

R-CALF is the source of all your problems, Tim. Keep telling yourself that inbetween farts. :lol:

Blah,blah,blah!!! :roll:

In the end it all boils down to this.......You believe that eating domestic USA beef is risky. I believe it is safe. Simple as that. :)
 

Sandhusker

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TimH said:
Sandhusker said:
Tim, you're just torked at me because you weren't asking questions for my opinion, you were just trying to steer me to making a certain comment you could pounce on, and I didn't take your bait. I saw you coming a mile away.

If you want to talk arrogance, try looking in the mirror. Nobody KNOWS a heck of a lot about BSE -we only have ideas. You can ignore those facts if you choose and pretend you've got the answers, I'm not prepared to do the same.

You can also lampoon R-CALF all you want, does't really matter. I just lump you into the category of "blind basher". You can't figure out all the damage to consumer confidence and word games have come from the USDA, not R-CALF.

I have to laugh at you pointing your finger at R-CALF and hollering "trade disrupters". You need to take a look at how your own government handles other countries with BSE. The similarities might shock you. But hey, you don't have to trade with us, there is a whole world out there. You're free to trade with someone else (if the USDA will let you).

R-CALF is the source of all your problems, Tim. Keep telling yourself that inbetween farts. :lol:

Blah,blah,blah!!! :roll:

In the end it all boils down to this.......You believe that eating domestic USA beef is risky. I believe it is safe. Simple as that. :)

Now you're putting words in my mouth! Nice job! However, the truth is that only an idiot could not acknowledge some degree of risk eating beef from any BSE positive country with the knowledge that we currently have about the disease. That degree of risk is a personal decision and the consumer should have choices available as to what defensive measures they would take, if any. That's what I think, Tim. Fart away.
 

HAY MAKER

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TimH said:
Sandhusker wrote..
If you want me to say something specific, maybe you should just put some words in my mouth

Why can't you say anything specific all on your own??

If you want to go on a personal attack, you go ahead. It shows the strength of your case and your carachter. Yes, I asked. Guess I'll know better next time.

Where was the personal attack, Sandhusker??? Are you referring to the "banker" comment? Can you prove I was talking about you personally?? See how easy it is to play your little word games!!!

I will however take part of my post back........the part about the IQ of 75. I take that back. It should read " IQ of 50".

The fact is , Sandhusker, that in your R-calf zeal to use BSE as an excuse to block imports, you are willing to say that eating domestic USA beef is a genuine risk of death ,even with the SRM's removed.
You are just too arrogant to realize that that is what you have said. And the really sad part is , that you and the R-calf leadership don't even care what this might do to consumer confidence in beef products, foreign or domestic, as long as those donations keep rolling in via all the lies and fear mongering directed at producers who truly believe they are doing the right thing by supporting R-calf. Shame on you, I say.

You go ahead and accuse me of making a personal attack on you. It is SOP for someone who is WRONG to rally the troops by playing the sympathy card.
I fart in your general direction. :mad:


Hey Tiny Tim,the wind is blowing outa the north,quit that wind breaking mess,all this time I thought it was these bulls calves we banded...........good luck
 

Big Muddy rancher

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Sandhusker wrote " You can't figure out all the damage to consumer confidence and word games have come from the USDA, not R-CALF. "


And Who may I ask took out the Washington Post ad?
 

Sandhusker

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Big Muddy rancher said:
Sandhusker wrote " You can't figure out all the damage to consumer confidence and word games have come from the USDA, not R-CALF. "


And Who may I ask took out the Washington Post ad?

R-CALF did. How much damage did that do compared to the USDA's heavy handedness with Japan? Compare that with the USDA's bungling of the first Texas cow, Fong's intervention in the second, announcing false positives, different standards using the same "sound science", shipping banned product to Japan, importing banned product from Canada, breaking their own rules, etc....
 

TimH

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Sandhusker wrote....
Now you're putting words in my mouth! Nice job! However, the truth is that only an idiot could not acknowledge some degree of risk eating beef from any BSE positive country with the knowledge that we currently have about the disease. That degree of risk is a personal decision and the consumer should have choices available as to what defensive measures they would take, if any. That's what I think, Tim. Fart away
.

Like I said before Sandhusker, anyone, with an IQ of more than 50 and a 3rd grade comprehension level, can read through this thread and decide for themselves who is saying that USA beef is safe and who isn't. You accusing me of "putting words in your mouth" doesn't make it true.
If "That degree of risk is a personal decision and consumers should have choices.......", why would R-calf bother with trying to stop CDN imports of beef on grounds that it is too risky? Why not let consumers have the choice as you suggest instead of using the court system to take that choice away?? :???: :?
I'll rosin up my bow while you lace up your tap shoes! :D

PS. I hope you have a decent set of rear-view mirrors on your bicycle. :)
 
A

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TimH said:
If "That degree of risk is a personal decision and consumers should have choices.......", why would R-calf bother with trying to stop CDN imports of beef on grounds that it is too risky? Why not let consumers have the choice as you suggest instead of using the court system to take that choice away?? :???: :?

TimH- As it currently sets consumers do not have that choice--All beef is labeled with a USDA inspected stamp and passed off to consumers as US beef....They have no way of knowing which is Canadian or which is Mexican or which is USA raised....

Apparently Packers/retailers don't believe they can sell Canadian beef or other cheap imports without having to pass it off as US produced :???:
 

Sandhusker

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TimH said:
Sandhusker wrote....
Now you're putting words in my mouth! Nice job! However, the truth is that only an idiot could not acknowledge some degree of risk eating beef from any BSE positive country with the knowledge that we currently have about the disease. That degree of risk is a personal decision and the consumer should have choices available as to what defensive measures they would take, if any. That's what I think, Tim. Fart away
.

Like I said before Sandhusker, anyone, with an IQ of more than 50 and a 3rd grade comprehension level, can read through this thread and decide for themselves who is saying that USA beef is safe and who isn't. You accusing me of "putting words in your mouth" doesn't make it true.
If "That degree of risk is a personal decision and consumers should have choices.......", why would R-calf bother with trying to stop CDN imports of beef on grounds that it is too risky? Why not let consumers have the choice as you suggest instead of using the court system to take that choice away?? :???: :?
I'll rosin up my bow while you lace up your tap shoes! :D

PS. I hope you have a decent set of rear-view mirrors on your bicycle. :)

OT says it pretty well. If R-CALF had their way, US consumers would be able to make the choice between Candian and other beef. I see you are agreeing with them that consumers should have that choice.

Another problem is our feed ban. R-CALF wants the holes closed, which would also be in your favor. Today, infected product could back door us by coming thru hog or chicken feed.

Didn't realize you agreed with R-CALF so much did you? You're welcome to become a member.
 

TimH

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Oldtimer said:
TimH said:
If "That degree of risk is a personal decision and consumers should have choices.......", why would R-calf bother with trying to stop CDN imports of beef on grounds that it is too risky? Why not let consumers have the choice as you suggest instead of using the court system to take that choice away?? :???: :?

TimH- As it currently sets consumers do not have that choice--All beef is labeled with a USDA inspected stamp and passed off to consumers as US beef....They have no way of knowing which is Canadian or which is Mexican or which is USA raised....

Apparently Packers/retailers don't believe they can sell Canadian beef or other cheap imports without having to pass it off as US produced :???:

OT, I wish there was something more I could do about that. CDN boxed beef is labeled "Product of Canada" when it crosses the border. UTM fats and feeders are branded "CAN" when they cross the border.
If you can think of anything that I could do to help you get your COOL law passed, just let me know. I'm all for it. :)
 
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TimH said:
Oldtimer said:
TimH said:
If "That degree of risk is a personal decision and consumers should have choices.......", why would R-calf bother with trying to stop CDN imports of beef on grounds that it is too risky? Why not let consumers have the choice as you suggest instead of using the court system to take that choice away?? :???: :?

TimH- As it currently sets consumers do not have that choice--All beef is labeled with a USDA inspected stamp and passed off to consumers as US beef....They have no way of knowing which is Canadian or which is Mexican or which is USA raised....

Apparently Packers/retailers don't believe they can sell Canadian beef or other cheap imports without having to pass it off as US produced :???:

OT, I wish there was something more I could do about that. CDN boxed beef is labeled "Product of Canada" when it crosses the border. UTM fats and feeders are branded "CAN" when they cross the border.
If you can think of anything that I could do to help you get your COOL law passed, just let me know. I'm all for it. :)

Good man- And I think many others in Canada will realize how important it will be for Canada to also have as Tyson/Cargil etal keep expanding their overseas investments....
 

TimH

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Sandhusker wrote....
OT says it pretty well. If R-CALF had their way, US consumers would be able to make the choice between Candian and other beef. I see you are agreeing with them that consumers should have that choice.

Another problem is our feed ban. R-CALF wants the holes closed, which would also be in your favor. Today, infected product could back door us by coming thru hog or chicken feed.

Didn't realize you agreed with R-CALF so much did you? You're welcome to become a member.

Let's pretend, for a moment, that all beef was labeled as to country of origin.What is the difference in BSE risk between USA beef and Canadian beef?? :?
(Look out folks, here comes that lame "number of cases" arguement.) :roll:
 

Sandhusker

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TimH said:
Sandhusker wrote....
OT says it pretty well. If R-CALF had their way, US consumers would be able to make the choice between Candian and other beef. I see you are agreeing with them that consumers should have that choice.

Another problem is our feed ban. R-CALF wants the holes closed, which would also be in your favor. Today, infected product could back door us by coming thru hog or chicken feed.

Didn't realize you agreed with R-CALF so much did you? You're welcome to become a member.

Let's pretend, for a moment, that all beef was labeled as to country of origin.What is the difference in BSE risk between USA beef and Canadian beef?? :?
(Look out folks, here comes that lame "number of cases" arguement.) :roll:

The number of cases is immaterial? :lol: Do you understand the concept of odds? Ever been to a horse race, Tim? Do you understand how insurance companies manage risk? If you think the number of cases has no bearing on risk, we have nothing to talk about. You're ignoring reality.
 

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Sandhusker said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
Sandhusker wrote " You can't figure out all the damage to consumer confidence and word games have come from the USDA, not R-CALF. "


And Who may I ask took out the Washington Post ad?

R-CALF did. How much damage did that do compared to the USDA's heavy handedness with Japan? Compare that with the USDA's bungling of the first Texas cow, Fong's intervention in the second, announcing false positives, different standards using the same "sound science", shipping banned product to Japan, importing banned product from Canada, breaking their own rules, etc....
Not only did they buy the ad they told everyone that was forced to listen to their crap that beef coming from a country affected by BSE was tainted and unfit for human consumption. Then had their flucky Judge Cebull release a ruling that claimed meat imported from Canada presented a GENUINE RISK OF DEATH. They got the Congress to try stop the Final Ruling because it was just to risky to be importing beef from a country known to have BSE. And in the long line of damaging things they have done they stood with "CONSUMER GROUPS" and spouted how unsafe beef is. What more could they have done Sandhusker to try destroy consumer confidence? Luckily nobody but those in the industry were listening and they knew what kind of wing nuts R-CALF has leading them. I'm not saying the USDA hasn't made mistakes I have pointed out some myself. BUT a BEEF ORGANIZATION is to point out to the consumers what has been already done to protect them and assure them that if anything else needs to be done they will work with the industry to fix what ever needs to be fixed. They are not to scare the H**l out of the consumers with lies so they dare not eat any beef just so they can achieve their misguided goals. A testament to how well R-CALF works with others is summed this way "Well the court Action was the only way we could get anyone to listen to us." :cry2: If you can't get someone to listen to your rantings just tie everyone up in court then they have to listen and so do the Japanese, Koreans, and every other beef importing country you plan to do business with. :x Why does R-CALF feel the NEED to use LIES to get their point across? :???: When the truth about those lies comes out it is your credibility that is in the toilet. :roll:
 

Tam

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reader (the Second) said:
Label it with country of origin and send it in.

I believe there's a slight BSE problem in Canada and that they are doing a good job of addressing it and of increasing surveillance and testing all downers.

I believe we haven't got a handle on whether or not there is BSE in the U.S. and we are not doing a good enough job yet of surveillance or of testing all downers and keeping them out of the food supply.

And I see your point Tim.

Reader did you forget about the Texas cow that took 7 months to confirm. BSE IS IN THE US.
 

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