Death Tax Repeal Critical
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Broke Cowboy
Well-known member
Faster Horses:
The only way anyone can really help you ...... I guess it is like being an alcoholic ... you have to want help before you can be helped. Forgive me if I just stepped on anyones toes. Sounds like you are ready.
Estate planning includes some very good and different methods and processes. One of them is a complete "needs analysis". It takes your situation and analyses it - then it allows you to make decisions.
The planner has to know where you have been, where you are today, and where you want to go. They build the road map and you simply follow it.
Every farm and ranch and business and personal situation is completely different. That is why I am a believer in this analysis. I also believe it should be carried out by at least two organizations. Then, if you want you can do a third - giving you an "honest broker" look at what you have. If there is a cost to this, then so be it. Some cost nothing, as long as you follow through with their reccommerndations and use their products. This can be good and obviously bad as there may be a conflict of interest.
If you have picked good honest organizations, they will work hard for you and their reccommendation will be close. There will be some differences, but in the end they will be surprizingly close.
The real good ones will be up front about this, and will also not be afraid to reccommend a competitors products if they fit into the plan better than those products the estate planner uses. In the end s/he will get paid by the company for using those products anyway.
If there is enough money in the pot to not have a worry about your future, then you will have a completely different approach to how things can procede as compared to one who does not have as much money in the pot.
The only way to tell for sure is to search out the information and be completely and brutally honest in your own self appraisal. This, in my opiniuon can only be done after someone has actually sat down and looked at the numbers from an estate planning point of view.
If your FBI folks have those qualifications, then why not at least start there. It will open your eyes to what is available. Then get on the net and find someone who does this work. They are out there and they are good.
Most major life insurance organizations have estate planning people who are ready to assist. They tend to be very conservative in their planning and they tend to be very knowledgeable as well. I would bet you have several of those who you could call. As well, they will bring in-house experts along to assist in the process if required. This is usually at their cost not yours. That is how we did ours.
These companies did not get to where they are today by screwing the clients. They got to where they are today by doing a good job. Most folks think life insurance companies only do life insurance - nothing could be farther from the truth today.
Do not think that this will be accomplished over night. We met with our folks more than a dozen times. It is time consuming, because there is a tremendous amount of information to disclose and there is a time factor involved in putting this all together. You also will have to do some serious soul searching on some issues. Especially if you have more than one child and only one wants to take the place over.
Estate equaliztion is a difficult thing to come to terms with. Our kids all know what will happen. We took them into our confidence part way through the process in order to make sure the "grief and greed" process would be eliminated BEFORE we died. I want my family to remain friends after we are gone.
After the reccommendations have been made, they usually will want to discuss them with you, your lawyer and your accountant. This in itself will prove their integrity.
Finally, it is imperative you do an annual review of the entire process with all of them. Things happen, and situations change. The updates are important, if not more important than most realize.
If you want anything else let me know. It is something I believe in and it is something that has allowed me to sleep better at night. This place is pretty secure because of what we did.
I will not reccommend my folks. Not because I do not like them. In fact it is the opposite. But, I do not want to have it appear that I have a conflict myself.
PM me any time,
BC
The only way anyone can really help you ...... I guess it is like being an alcoholic ... you have to want help before you can be helped. Forgive me if I just stepped on anyones toes. Sounds like you are ready.
Estate planning includes some very good and different methods and processes. One of them is a complete "needs analysis". It takes your situation and analyses it - then it allows you to make decisions.
The planner has to know where you have been, where you are today, and where you want to go. They build the road map and you simply follow it.
Every farm and ranch and business and personal situation is completely different. That is why I am a believer in this analysis. I also believe it should be carried out by at least two organizations. Then, if you want you can do a third - giving you an "honest broker" look at what you have. If there is a cost to this, then so be it. Some cost nothing, as long as you follow through with their reccommerndations and use their products. This can be good and obviously bad as there may be a conflict of interest.
If you have picked good honest organizations, they will work hard for you and their reccommendation will be close. There will be some differences, but in the end they will be surprizingly close.
The real good ones will be up front about this, and will also not be afraid to reccommend a competitors products if they fit into the plan better than those products the estate planner uses. In the end s/he will get paid by the company for using those products anyway.
If there is enough money in the pot to not have a worry about your future, then you will have a completely different approach to how things can procede as compared to one who does not have as much money in the pot.
The only way to tell for sure is to search out the information and be completely and brutally honest in your own self appraisal. This, in my opiniuon can only be done after someone has actually sat down and looked at the numbers from an estate planning point of view.
If your FBI folks have those qualifications, then why not at least start there. It will open your eyes to what is available. Then get on the net and find someone who does this work. They are out there and they are good.
Most major life insurance organizations have estate planning people who are ready to assist. They tend to be very conservative in their planning and they tend to be very knowledgeable as well. I would bet you have several of those who you could call. As well, they will bring in-house experts along to assist in the process if required. This is usually at their cost not yours. That is how we did ours.
These companies did not get to where they are today by screwing the clients. They got to where they are today by doing a good job. Most folks think life insurance companies only do life insurance - nothing could be farther from the truth today.
Do not think that this will be accomplished over night. We met with our folks more than a dozen times. It is time consuming, because there is a tremendous amount of information to disclose and there is a time factor involved in putting this all together. You also will have to do some serious soul searching on some issues. Especially if you have more than one child and only one wants to take the place over.
Estate equaliztion is a difficult thing to come to terms with. Our kids all know what will happen. We took them into our confidence part way through the process in order to make sure the "grief and greed" process would be eliminated BEFORE we died. I want my family to remain friends after we are gone.
After the reccommendations have been made, they usually will want to discuss them with you, your lawyer and your accountant. This in itself will prove their integrity.
Finally, it is imperative you do an annual review of the entire process with all of them. Things happen, and situations change. The updates are important, if not more important than most realize.
If you want anything else let me know. It is something I believe in and it is something that has allowed me to sleep better at night. This place is pretty secure because of what we did.
I will not reccommend my folks. Not because I do not like them. In fact it is the opposite. But, I do not want to have it appear that I have a conflict myself.
PM me any time,
BC
Broke Cowboy
Well-known member
Rancher
We looked at trusts.
I refer you to my comments about how things are different for every person, business and so on.
It did not fit into our plans, so we did not go that way. If it fits then I would say go with one.
I simply would advise that all the options should be explored and that all the information is compiled and analyzed before the decision is made to go in whichever direction you decide to travel.
Remember this is a true long term decision that is being made. Whatever you decide will have far reaching effects. For that reason, it must be made in the sober light of day.
Not much of an answer, but it is probably the best one to provide in this forum.
BC
We looked at trusts.
I refer you to my comments about how things are different for every person, business and so on.
It did not fit into our plans, so we did not go that way. If it fits then I would say go with one.
I simply would advise that all the options should be explored and that all the information is compiled and analyzed before the decision is made to go in whichever direction you decide to travel.
Remember this is a true long term decision that is being made. Whatever you decide will have far reaching effects. For that reason, it must be made in the sober light of day.
Not much of an answer, but it is probably the best one to provide in this forum.
BC
A
Anonymous
Guest
I just went through an estate settlement as a personal representative for my nephew.
There was just over two thousand acres which was valued at $200 per acre. This value was what the tax assessor had as full and true value on the land. There was some bank accounts and stocks. Total value of the estate was just over $700,000. Since the federal tax does not kick in until you get over $1,500,000, there was no federal tax. And South Dakota does not have a state estate tax.
Lawyer was hired by the hour, his bill was $940. Local courthouse had around $100 in fees for a total of just over $1000.
Doing my yearly income taxes are ten times more of a pain than this was.
There was just over two thousand acres which was valued at $200 per acre. This value was what the tax assessor had as full and true value on the land. There was some bank accounts and stocks. Total value of the estate was just over $700,000. Since the federal tax does not kick in until you get over $1,500,000, there was no federal tax. And South Dakota does not have a state estate tax.
Lawyer was hired by the hour, his bill was $940. Local courthouse had around $100 in fees for a total of just over $1000.
Doing my yearly income taxes are ten times more of a pain than this was.
Broke Cowboy
Well-known member
guest motorcycle cowboy,
Wow - that's a good one! Good for you and better for him.
I happen to live near a larger centre and the land is now valued in the thousands per acre. Unfortunately we also have estate taxes. The bill at this end was substantially higher - high six figures by the time we were done. And it will be yet again when all of us are gone. Had to get it all set up for the next generation. If you saw the place you definitely would not think it was worth the value placed upon it.
Sometimes I wish we did not live where we are, but this is now the home place and likely always will be.
Did you know this ahead of time, or were you much like us ... not knowing until we were placed in the situation? Fortunately the folks looked ahead on this issue.
Every situation is different and it is important to know before it is to late.
How old is the nephew, and what will his estate be worth when he dies? Not looking for an answer, just hoping he takes that into account for many years from now when the cycle continues again.
I like it when I hear the good news stories. They are often few and far between.
Rancher
Trusts can be a good thing for some folks. Like I said, it did not fit into our plans. There are ways to get money out of trusts in a tax efficient manner. We looked at the option and discarded it.
We were simply not sure that we wanted to have our heirs go through the bureaucratic red tape to do this if their situation changed, so we stayed out of it.
All
In the end, we did this not only for us, but for the family. I have watched some folks get down and dirty over their Mom and Dads estate. It was not pretty.
I stand by my comments, because we would have been in deep doo doo if things had been different. It is amazing how an operation can increase in value over the years. :shock:
Ask some of those folks near a major centre if they can afford to buy land. Even better, ask them if their land is now worth more than their cattle operation. Makes me wonder some times why we even raise cattle.
The only way to know for sure is to find out.
MCC glad it worked out for him.
BC
Wow - that's a good one! Good for you and better for him.
I happen to live near a larger centre and the land is now valued in the thousands per acre. Unfortunately we also have estate taxes. The bill at this end was substantially higher - high six figures by the time we were done. And it will be yet again when all of us are gone. Had to get it all set up for the next generation. If you saw the place you definitely would not think it was worth the value placed upon it.
Sometimes I wish we did not live where we are, but this is now the home place and likely always will be.
Did you know this ahead of time, or were you much like us ... not knowing until we were placed in the situation? Fortunately the folks looked ahead on this issue.
Every situation is different and it is important to know before it is to late.
How old is the nephew, and what will his estate be worth when he dies? Not looking for an answer, just hoping he takes that into account for many years from now when the cycle continues again.
I like it when I hear the good news stories. They are often few and far between.
Rancher
Trusts can be a good thing for some folks. Like I said, it did not fit into our plans. There are ways to get money out of trusts in a tax efficient manner. We looked at the option and discarded it.
We were simply not sure that we wanted to have our heirs go through the bureaucratic red tape to do this if their situation changed, so we stayed out of it.
All
In the end, we did this not only for us, but for the family. I have watched some folks get down and dirty over their Mom and Dads estate. It was not pretty.
I stand by my comments, because we would have been in deep doo doo if things had been different. It is amazing how an operation can increase in value over the years. :shock:
Ask some of those folks near a major centre if they can afford to buy land. Even better, ask them if their land is now worth more than their cattle operation. Makes me wonder some times why we even raise cattle.
The only way to know for sure is to find out.
MCC glad it worked out for him.
BC
A
Anonymous
Guest
Broke cowboy, what about special use valuation on farm land. I don't fully understand it, but estate land values are based on income from the land. This would value land at 30% of FMV (fair market value.
Broke Cowboy
Well-known member
MCC
Jeepers, I am not an expert in that field. I only know my own story, and that is basically what you are getting.
Our land values are shooting up around here and it is going to make a difference to the next generation.
I wonder what a couple thousand acres just outside the Dallas area is worth now? 20 years ago? Montana ranches? Toronto? Calgary? I see land advertised in those places for literally millions of dollars. Some real small pieces of ground in some cases.
I am sure there are some here who could "legal talk me to death". I never claimed to be a real smart fellow. I do claim to be smart enough to look into things, get the answers from the experts and then make my mind up as to how I want to procede.
That is why we went to get our own plan done. Good thing too bcause even our lawyer and accountant were surprized at how things rolled along. Planner not only discussed our situation with the lawyer and accountant, he collaborated with them to make our situation work more efficiently.
Planner sat us down and we talked and he took notes. He asked so many questions my head used to hurt. The stuff about how we would split up everything and keep the kids happy was the hardest. That is why we finally let the kids in on what we were doing. I did not have the answers, but the kids did.
As my old man used to say, "I never go to the dentist to get a part welded".
It is for this reason, and the fact that some folks we know very well who lost a lot of land and a business, that I tell everyone to get it from the experts. Coffee shop talk is just that and nothing more. If we do not, we stand to lose a lot. Worse case scernario it can all be lost.
Re-read HayMakers comments about someone he knew being forced to sell some land to retain the remainder. In the end it is usually not us that are the experts. That is why I preach going to the experts and getting the facts. Then, rather than being REACTIVE when the time comes, a family can be PROACTIVE before the time comes.
Estate planning in my mind is just that. Finding out what will work for you and your family.
It does not matter whether you live in Canada or the U.S. of A, the feds have their set of rules. the states and provinces have their set of rules and it is the owner/heirs that will be required to pay up or get out.
After them come the bill collectors and after them come the other family members. If all the ducks are not lined up it can get real messy real fast. And once it starts it is almost impossible to stop.
You know I have gone back and read my posts. They make me look like a rich guy with a heck of an educations and a lot of smarts. Believe me that is not the case. I am just a working stiff. Do your homework folks. It is important.
Whew, too much for one day. Get back at me if you want. I am up for it but this typing is tough.
BC
Jeepers, I am not an expert in that field. I only know my own story, and that is basically what you are getting.
Our land values are shooting up around here and it is going to make a difference to the next generation.
I wonder what a couple thousand acres just outside the Dallas area is worth now? 20 years ago? Montana ranches? Toronto? Calgary? I see land advertised in those places for literally millions of dollars. Some real small pieces of ground in some cases.
I am sure there are some here who could "legal talk me to death". I never claimed to be a real smart fellow. I do claim to be smart enough to look into things, get the answers from the experts and then make my mind up as to how I want to procede.
That is why we went to get our own plan done. Good thing too bcause even our lawyer and accountant were surprized at how things rolled along. Planner not only discussed our situation with the lawyer and accountant, he collaborated with them to make our situation work more efficiently.
Planner sat us down and we talked and he took notes. He asked so many questions my head used to hurt. The stuff about how we would split up everything and keep the kids happy was the hardest. That is why we finally let the kids in on what we were doing. I did not have the answers, but the kids did.
As my old man used to say, "I never go to the dentist to get a part welded".
It is for this reason, and the fact that some folks we know very well who lost a lot of land and a business, that I tell everyone to get it from the experts. Coffee shop talk is just that and nothing more. If we do not, we stand to lose a lot. Worse case scernario it can all be lost.
Re-read HayMakers comments about someone he knew being forced to sell some land to retain the remainder. In the end it is usually not us that are the experts. That is why I preach going to the experts and getting the facts. Then, rather than being REACTIVE when the time comes, a family can be PROACTIVE before the time comes.
Estate planning in my mind is just that. Finding out what will work for you and your family.
It does not matter whether you live in Canada or the U.S. of A, the feds have their set of rules. the states and provinces have their set of rules and it is the owner/heirs that will be required to pay up or get out.
After them come the bill collectors and after them come the other family members. If all the ducks are not lined up it can get real messy real fast. And once it starts it is almost impossible to stop.
You know I have gone back and read my posts. They make me look like a rich guy with a heck of an educations and a lot of smarts. Believe me that is not the case. I am just a working stiff. Do your homework folks. It is important.
Whew, too much for one day. Get back at me if you want. I am up for it but this typing is tough.
BC
