Deceit, deception and desperation?

[Tam]

Looks to me like if R-CALF's goal was to keep Canadian live cattle from glutting the market and lowering US prices, they have accomplished what they wanted...The stringent USDA rules for live import, which R-CALF lobbied for, and the unknown aspect of what will happen next with the border- (will it be closed again in appeal?- will Canadian origin beef be banned from sale in the US?) have sure kept the live cattle movements to very few......

Not too bad while taking a timeout..... :wink:

Say it ain't so Oldtimer!!! You said that R-Calf wanted live cattle kept out because it was a food safety issue and herd health issue! Now we find out it was actually a trade barrier?? :lol: :lol:

Bill- Tam says thats R-CALFs goal-- so if it is then they are succeeding....Just Trying to humor Tam- keep up her super power belief in R-CALF :wink: :lol: :lol:

Oldtimer you take the cake, frosting and all. I never posted to this until AFTER you posted your little credit grabbing statement.
First I don't credit or blame R-CALF for everything that has happen in the last decade. :roll: . BSE closed the border. That is an issue that most will agree on so why does R-CALF take credit for the three most profitable years in history for the US cattle industry because they kept the border closed??????? Truth be known Oldtimer R-CALF kept it closed from March to July 2005 thats all. The rest of the time was spent writing the final rule which according to US law everyone can comment on. I give credit to the the rest of the cattle industry for pointing out what R-CALF never would have because of their protectionist isolationist lieing agenda. I give the rest of the industry and the USDA credit because they saw what standing on a closed border and ignoring the science would do to your sales pitch once BSE was found in the US. Maybe if R-CALF had the foresight the rest of the industry had the Japanese government wouldn't be taking so much pressure to keep their borders closed to the US beef, and you would have a M"ID" system in place. And I give credit to the US consumer for their ability to see through R-CALF and their agenda. Because if they hadn't the North American Cattle/Beef industry would be done for. As you can't destroy consumer confidence in your product and survive to tell about it now can you?
All I give R-CALF credit for is knowing what Federal Judge to use to get that four month delay. and All I blame R-CALF for is ALL THE LIES they spouted to further their protectionist isolationist agenda. Grant you that is a quite a bit but if you spout it take credit for it Oldtimer.

 

[Anonymous]

Say it ain't so Oldtimer!!! You said that R-Calf wanted live cattle kept out because it was a food safety issue and herd health issue! Now we find out it was actually a trade barrier?? :lol: :lol:

Bill- Tam says thats R-CALFs goal-- so if it is then they are succeeding....Just Trying to humor Tam- keep up her super power belief in R-CALF :wink: :lol: :lol:

Oldtimer you take the cake, frosting and all. I never posted to this until AFTER you posted your little credit grabbing statement.

But I knew you would- and you would blame R-CALF- you always do :wink: :lol: ....You need to get behind rkaiser's group and become proactive- think outside the box a little instead of following the drumbeat of all the corporate bought CCA's, ABP's, and NCBA's that aren't allowed an original thought even IF they get one.....You might even find out that R-CALF is right on a few things.......

 

[Tam]

Bill- Tam says thats R-CALFs goal-- so if it is then they are succeeding....Just Trying to humor Tam- keep up her super power belief in R-CALF :wink: :lol: :lol:

Oldtimer you take the cake, frosting and all. I never posted to this until AFTER you posted your little credit grabbing statement.

But I knew you would- and you would blame R-CALF- you always do :wink: :lol: ....You need to get behind rkaiser's group and become proactive- think outside the box a little instead of following the drumbeat of all the corporate bought CCA's, ABP's, and NCBA's that aren't allowed an original thought even IF they get one.....You might even find out that R-CALF is right on a few things.......

When I find something that R-CALF hasn't lied about repeatedly and had all their supporters back without looking at it for what it really is I will be amazed. R-CALF wanted the border closed to protect your cattle prices when that didn't recieve the press they wanted, they change their story to health issues and a genuine risk of death from Canadian beef hand in hand with "Consumer Groups" for the press they recieve. When BSE was found in the US "we have these firewalls in place" was their story. But the holes in those firewalls will spread BSE if imported but not if it is native. Every flip flop was supported by you and Haymaker without of any doubt, and you talk about not being allowed an original thought. Thanks for the laugh Oldtimer. :clap: :lol2:
And as for Randy's group I agree we do need to get other processing open and markets too. But sorry I don't agree with some of what he and his group came out with. And since their idea didn't fly I would have to say I wasn't the only one that disagreed with them. And if all it took was me disagreeing with him to stop his ideas from going forward I must have more power than R-CALF does. :wink:

 

[Northern Rancher]

It must be interesting to watch the OT destify in court-he sure don't let the facts ruin a good story.

 

[Tam]

It must be interesting to watch the OT destify in court-he sure don't let the facts ruin a good story.

Oldtimer reminds me of a teacher our daughter had in high school. He would make some off the wall statement knowing she would bring the facts to the argument, that he knew was going break out, to prove his statement was false. I now understand why she came home from school cussing him like she did everyday. Another day another stupid statement. :roll:

 

[Tam]

I too aplaud Randy Kaiser for trying to control his own destiny through a producer owned packing venture.

I supported the same thing here in the U.S. with NPPB and USPB.

Are we to expect you to support the Big C's exports to the U.S. then Old Timer?




~SH~

Can you tell me are NPPB and USPB paid for with US manditory checkoff dollars?

 

[Anonymous]

NPPB was a USPB idea that did not fly.

NPPB is history.

No, neither NPPB or USPB received any checkoff dollars that I am aware of. I was involved in the NPPB campaign and I never heard checkoff dollars mentioned once because it would have benefitted the investors at the expense of the whole industry. That wouldn't be right. That's not what checkoff dollars are for.


~SH~

 

[Econ101]

Looks to me like if R-CALF's goal was to keep Canadian live cattle from glutting the market and lowering US prices, they have accomplished what they wanted...The stringent USDA rules for live import, which R-CALF lobbied for, and the unknown aspect of what will happen next with the border- (will it be closed again in appeal?- will Canadian origin beef be banned from sale in the US?) have sure kept the live cattle movements to very few......

Not too bad while taking a timeout..... :wink:

Say it ain't so Oldtimer!!! You said that R-Calf wanted live cattle kept out because it was a food safety issue and herd health issue! Now we find out it was actually a trade barrier?? :lol: :lol:

Bill, food safety should never be considered a trade barrier. It should be considered a right to have food safe.

 

[Tam]

NPPB was a USPB idea that did not fly.

NPPB is history.

No, neither NPPB or USPB received any checkoff dollars that I am aware of. I was involved in the NPPB campaign and I never heard checkoff dollars mentioned once because it would have benefitted the investors at the expense of the whole industry. That wouldn't be right. That's not what checkoff dollars are for.


~SH~

But SH that is what the Randy/Big C's plan was for their slaughter plant. It was to add a 1 or 2 dollar levy onto the national checkoff to fund one plant, in one province at the cost of all Canadian producers. I support additional producer owner plants too but not with a national checkoff flipping the bill. We have trucked our cattle to a producer owner plant and waited a month for payment just so we could support them. But what about that producer owned plant will it be there the next time I want to sell cull cattle if it has to compete with a plant that doesn't have to pay for itself out of its profits. I agree with you that is not what the checkoff is for.
As for investors in the Big C slaughter plant One of their first investors told us he had written a check to them to buy shares in the plant. Was he ever surprized when he found out what he wrote his check for was to cover Big C's travel expences while they drummed up support for the manditory checkoff levy.

 

[Tam]

Looks to me like if R-CALF's goal was to keep Canadian live cattle from glutting the market and lowering US prices, they have accomplished what they wanted...The stringent USDA rules for live import, which R-CALF lobbied for, and the unknown aspect of what will happen next with the border- (will it be closed again in appeal?- will Canadian origin beef be banned from sale in the US?) have sure kept the live cattle movements to very few......

Not too bad while taking a timeout..... :wink:

Say it ain't so Oldtimer!!! You said that R-Calf wanted live cattle kept out because it was a food safety issue and herd health issue! Now we find out it was actually a trade barrier?? :lol: :lol:

Bill, food safety should never be considered a trade barrier. It should be considered a right to have food safe.

Can you tell us what makes US Beef the SAFEST IN THE WORLD when you think there is a food safety issue with our beef? We both have BSE in our native herds the proper test proved that months ago. So, why is there a food safety issue when it comes to our beef but US producers are not being asked to stop selling their beef to the buying public? Does the US consumer's right to safe food only come into play when it doesn't affect US producers?

 

[alabama]

Do y'all not ever get tired of arguing about this?
Talk about beating a dead horse?

 

[Tam]

Do y'all not ever get tired of arguing about this?
Talk about beating a dead horse?

Maybe if the US could back up their claims of having the SAFEST BEEF IN THE WORLD when you have BSE just like we do, or they admit our beef is just as safe if not safer because of our firewalls, things might change Alabama. But when we are repeatedly told our beef is unsafe and your isn't because of your firewalls, yes the argument will continue.

 

[Econ101]

Say it ain't so Oldtimer!!! You said that R-Calf wanted live cattle kept out because it was a food safety issue and herd health issue! Now we find out it was actually a trade barrier?? :lol: :lol:

Bill, food safety should never be considered a trade barrier. It should be considered a right to have food safe.

Can you tell us what makes US Beef the SAFEST IN THE WORLD when you think there is a food safety issue with our beef? We both have BSE in our native herds the proper test proved that months ago. So, why is there a food safety issue when it comes to our beef but US producers are not being asked to stop selling their beef to the buying public? Does the US consumer's right to safe food only come into play when it doesn't affect US producers?

Tam, I have a whole lot of problems with the USDA. It is currently being run by the packers and they can not police themselves. The USDA would not let certain plants test for BSE. It is just crazy. You are trapped in the same craziness that I am. The Secretary of Ag. finds out his testing procedures were trumped by Phillys Fong (sp?) and jumps all over here for not going through him before ordering better tests. We all have a problem here and it needs to get fixed fast. This could ruin the beef industry as we know it. I do sympathize with the Canadian situation and it has been described on this forum pretty accurately. The packers have to stop running the Canadian and U.S. ag. policy. Period.

 

[Tam]

Bill, food safety should never be considered a trade barrier. It should be considered a right to have food safe.

Can you tell us what makes US Beef the SAFEST IN THE WORLD when you think there is a food safety issue with our beef? We both have BSE in our native herds the proper test proved that months ago. So, why is there a food safety issue when it comes to our beef but US producers are not being asked to stop selling their beef to the buying public? Does the US consumer's right to safe food only come into play when it doesn't affect US producers?

Tam, I have a whole lot of problems with the USDA. It is currently being run by the packers and they can not police themselves. The USDA would not let certain plants test for BSE. It is just crazy. You are trapped in the same craziness that I am. The Secretary of Ag. finds out his testing procedures were trumped by Phillys Fong (sp?) and jumps all over here for not going through him before ordering better tests. We all have a problem here and it needs to get fixed fast. This could ruin the beef industry as we know it. I do sympathize with the Canadian situation and it has been described on this forum pretty accurately. The packers have to stop running the Canadian and U.S. ag. policy. Period.

Can you tell me if you truly believe there is a food safety issue here do you support the continued sale of US beef to US consumers?

We all have a problem here and it needs to get fixed fast. This could ruin the beef industry as we know it.

I agree we do have a problem and it need to be fixed fast but that problem has been compounded by the lies of one of the US Cattle organizations. How can they claim our cattle/beef represent a genuine risk of death to keep the border closed when all they know about what happens in Canada is what they read in the news. As we all know they have never stepped foot in Canada to see for themselves. Then claim yours is the safest beef in the world when their real fight (so they claim) is with the regulatory agency that is in charge of the safeguards that protect the safety of your beef and the packing industry that processes your "World Safest Beef" you are selling. Either the USDA and the packers are on top of things and all beef even our beef processed in the US is safe or they aren't and non of the beef is safe including yours.

 

[agman]

Looks to me like if R-CALF's goal was to keep Canadian live cattle from glutting the market and lowering US prices, they have accomplished what they wanted...The stringent USDA rules for live import, which R-CALF lobbied for, and the unknown aspect of what will happen next with the border- (will it be closed again in appeal?- will Canadian origin beef be banned from sale in the US?) have sure kept the live cattle movements to very few......

Not too bad while taking a timeout..... :wink:

You still cannot get your facts straight can you regarding the border closure and current prices? You still think the closure is the reason for higher prices in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. That really qualifes you OT. You are as wrong about that event as you have been with your legal advice-wrong on all counts.

No the boreder will not be closed even if there is an appeal. There is little if any chance that the full court will take this case since it was a unanimous decision from the presiding judges. You heard it here first.

 

[Econ101]

Looks to me like if R-CALF's goal was to keep Canadian live cattle from glutting the market and lowering US prices, they have accomplished what they wanted...The stringent USDA rules for live import, which R-CALF lobbied for, and the unknown aspect of what will happen next with the border- (will it be closed again in appeal?- will Canadian origin beef be banned from sale in the US?) have sure kept the live cattle movements to very few......

Not too bad while taking a timeout..... :wink:

You still cannot get your facts straight can you regarding the border closure and current prices? You still think the closure is the reason for higher prices in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. That really qualifes you OT. You are as wrong about that event as you have been with your legal advice-wrong on all counts.

No the boreder will not be closed even if there is an appeal. There is little if any chance that the full court will take this case since it was a unanimous decision from the presiding judges. You heard it here first.

Sounds like you have been talking behind closed doors.

 

[alabama]

Do y'all not ever get tired of arguing about this?
Talk about beating a dead horse?

Maybe if the US could back up their claims of having the SAFEST BEEF IN THE WORLD when you have BSE just like we do, or they admit our beef is just as safe if not safer because of our firewalls, things might change Alabama. But when we are repeatedly told our beef is unsafe and your isn't because of your firewalls, yes the argument will continue.

I will take that as a no. LOL

 

[Tam]

Do y'all not ever get tired of arguing about this?
Talk about beating a dead horse?

Maybe if the US could back up their claims of having the SAFEST BEEF IN THE WORLD when you have BSE just like we do, or they admit our beef is just as safe if not safer because of our firewalls, things might change Alabama. But when we are repeatedly told our beef is unsafe and your isn't because of your firewalls, yes the argument will continue.

I will take that as a no. LOL

Well Alabama are you ready to admit you don't have the safest beef in the world or at least that our is just as safe as yours and not a genuine risk of death if imported into the US. If you are willing to admit it and get R-CALF to admit they lied then the argumant could be over.

 

[Bill]

Do y'all not ever get tired of arguing about this?
Talk about beating a dead horse?

Most people see it as R-Calf beating the dead horse as it them that won't let it die.

 

[mrj]

I had a chance today to read some comments on the Agriville Beef Forum put on by Rkaiser- explaining working with the CBEF (Canadian Beef Export Foundation)...I have to give kaiser credit- he and the Big C group are definitely out there working to get the Canadian producers some markets, rather than like the majority which just batters R-CALF and looks to the US as their only market and saviour.....
I had to copy one of his paragraphs:

"Yesterday was round table dicussions with members split in about seven groups. Our table alone included the Chairman of ABP, the outgoing Chair of CBEF Ben Thorlakson, the CAO of ABP, a high ranking Fed beuracrat, and a CCA director who had was trying to hide the holes in his nose from the ring installed by the mutinational packer led USDA. (DID I SAY THAT)."


Yep- CCA and NCBA are definitely siamese twins :wink: :lol: :lol:

All too typical of both of you to resort to cutesy comments which only make you sound ridiculous, when you have nothing of substance to criticize.

MRJ