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Diamond D Angus

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okangusguy

Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2008
Messages
8
Location
oklahoma panhandle
A few days ago I posted a question about the New Zealand Bulls that have talked about on here. I did not have many responces I don't know if that is good or bad. Lets try something different. Has anyone used a Diamond D Angus AI sire. If so who did you use and did you like his calves? I am trying to choose a bull that is easy fleshing moderate framed and has sensible EPD's. I have looked at Ohlde and Pharo but have heard a few negatives. I personlly think Pharo cattle may be a little to small. What do you guys think. I am thinking that I want to use a frame score 4 or 5 bull. Let me hear your opinons.
 
I have used sons of Fahren of Wye and a Banjo of Wye in the past. I was using them when they weren't in style. Everybody was looking bigger.
I feel that i didn't give those bulls enough credit for what they were doing right for my herd.They were always in good flesh and the cows fertile.
They looked short but I now feel they more then made up for it in thickness.
 
I talked to a good friend that is a purebred breeder. He thinks the Diamond D cattle tend to be a bit inconsistent. He has used 21X and he definitely is a heifer bull. And the heifers out of him raise real good calves. His favorites there are Emblazon 27C and perhaps 706C (an Emblazon son). 21X he says has too long of pasterns and they can be short-backed. But again, he is very happy with the heifers and what they produced.

He likes the Pinebank bull, the calves are really thick. He looks like the calves would be puds, but they aren't. He is 4.5 or 5 frame bull. They would use him again. They will be calving heifers out of him this spring.

He likes a Wye bred bull named, "Manning of Volga" that is owned by Evergreen Angus in Minnesota.

Not all of Pharo's cattle are that small.

We have a customer that has used Pharo bulls, Diamond D bulls and Ohlde bulls and so far, he likes the Ohldes the best. But they are also the most expensive. The 'good buys' from all three of these breeders are history because of supply and demand. Everyone is wanting back to moderate, easy-fleshing, good doing cattle. I've always appreciated Diamond D for scoring their cattle on disposition and udder--things like that help determine what makes real cows for real ranchers.

Of course, what bothers me about Pharo cattle, is they don't (or at least didn't) get fed mineral when they are young and I think there is some problems down the road with these bulls that I attribute to mineral deficiency when they were growing. Maybe he has changed his ideas on this and feeds some mineral now; you'd have to ask Kit Pharo. I believe he would give you an honest answer.

Rick Hanson at Froid has some good cattle. The heifer bulls we bought from him are just right and have done an excellent job. I bought a cow bull for our neighbor from him and he thinks it is his best bull. They are priced reasonably and are sold private treaty starting on a day he designates in the early spring and sold on a first-come-first served basis.
His cattle have some Wye breeding and he has a bull he calls Cedar that he has used for years, he's that good of a bull. You could call him about what he does about AI'ing.

Hope this helps!!!

p.s. BMR, I know exactly what you mean. When we had those kind, we crossed them with Limousin...big mistake...
 
Faster Horses

Could you explain the problems you see being caused by not feeding young bulls mineral.
Of course, what bothers me about Pharo cattle, is they don't (or at least didn't) get fed mineral when they are young and I think there is some problems down the road with these bulls that I attribute to mineral deficiency when they were growing. Maybe he has changed his ideas on this and feeds some mineral now; you'd have to ask Kit Pharo. I believe he would give you an honest answer.
Click to expand...
 
I have a neighbor that has used the Diamond D bulls for years- and is completely sold on them....He owned one of their main sires (I think 28A) that he used for 3 years- and then Deboos saw the calves from him while delivering bulls and bought back from him and started using as a herd sire....
Lately he's been really bragging up the sons of Broadside 52B (that they all call Fort Peck # something)...Broadside has terrible EPD's- but makes some great easy keeping mother cows......
He bought a heifer thats bred to the Pinebank bull at the last sale- so in a few weeks we should get to see that calf...

Here is an outfit closer to you that raises some of the same type cattle...Can't tell you anything more about them that whats on the website- but I think they have a sale coming up and might be worth checking out..
http://www.powellangus.com/
 
I used semen from Diamond D angus sires such as 27c, 6d, 28a and 21x. I have some yearling replacement heifers and 10 bulls calves as a result of that AIing. The heifers are very nice looking as are the bulls. But they have not proven anything yet. Next year I will know more. I do plan on carcass ultrasounding all of these next month. I did an embroy transplant on an older cow of mine from the Cash Flow/ Emulation 31 Blood line then using 21x semen. I am very proud of them so far. 4 heifers and 2 bulls.
His type of breeding is what I want my "mother cows" to be like. I was drawn to his breeding by the way he scores his cattle, much the same way I do. There is some consistency in the cattle because of the way he scores them. Moderate, good udders and good disposition are terms that vary greatly among each cattleman. His definition is the same as mine.
 
Some talk of "real cows for real ranchers", I'm curious, what are the real ranchers feeding their cows this winter. How much are the "real ranchers' feeding as well. I'm anxious to see how much savings there is in these programs.
 
I don't know if Haymaker thinks I am a real rancher but my middle age cows are still grazing out in the Big Muddy badlands. I supplement them with canola meal with added salt and Vigortone mineral. I was thru them Monday and they are looking great. This weather has been tough the last couple weeks but I wean fairly early and leave grass just for winter grazing.
 
Here's my 2 bits on the comment made about Kit's bulls being set back by not providing mineral. I can almost guarantee that Kit's response would be the same as mine or Northern Rancher's.......Kit is, and has, developed cattle that can thrive- not just survive - on what's readily available in their environment. That is also the same philosophy preached by the Falloon family of Pinebank Angus. Cattle need to be allowed to adapt to their environment and not require supplemental stuff. Am I there yet? No, quite honestly I have more cows that are not, than cows that are, but I'm working in that direction. Kit and the Falloon's already have cattle that do. And those cattle that weaken in those conditions simply label themselves as culls.

If any supplementing is to be done, it should be into balancing the soils - on crop or pasture - and the soil will provide the stock with everything they need. (In a perfect world :wink: )
 
Hear, hear PureCountry. I never expected to run into as many back to common sense basics ranchers as are here. Next thing I imagine you are going to pass on wisdom from Alan Savory or Stan Parsons or Dick Diven. We know that Mr. Romantic from Northern Sask. is a fan of Bud Williams. Oh I left out Gerald Fry. I suppose you also read the Stockmans Grassfarmer and Acres USA. Oh yea, a little Joel Salatin for good measure.
 
PureCountry said:
Here's my 2 bits on the comment made about Kit's bulls being set back by not providing mineral. I can almost guarantee that Kit's response would be the same as mine or Northern Rancher's.......Kit is, and has, developed cattle that can thrive- not just survive - on what's readily available in their environment. That is also the same philosophy preached by the Falloon family of Pinebank Angus. Cattle need to be allowed to adapt to their environment and not require supplemental stuff. Am I there yet? No, quite honestly I have more cows that are not, than cows that are, but I'm working in that direction. Kit and the Falloon's already have cattle that do. And those cattle that weaken in those conditions simply label themselves as culls.

If any supplementing is to be done, it should be into balancing the soils - on crop or pasture - and the soil will provide the stock with everything they need. (In a perfect world :wink: )
Click to expand...

I agree Purecountry- we never put out any mineral (except for an occasional salt block) until about 20-30 years ago when we got snowed into this "high performance" "bigger, better, faster" cattle trend BS- and our cattle did great...Never had a case of grass tetany or any other problem- until I went to the "performance" bred bulls- and then had to start supplementing them so I didn't have these problems- and the feed bill went up......And the price offered by the bloodsuckers buying them didn't comparitively....
 
And you forgot Jim Gerrish, R.L.Dalrymple(& the Noble Foundation), Burt Smith, Jan Bonsma, Andre Voisin, Jim Lents, James Drayson....(I'm sure I'm leaving some out too)

I don't sell many bulls and most don't ask for semen test, but the one I did tested 95% on paper. Actually the vet only found one broken tail under microscope and said it could have been mechanical damage from the collection process. 100% forage raised and nothing else...no minerals on very poor fertility ground!!!!! God has this figured out...man just screws it up!!!!!!
 
per said:
I forgot The William Albrecht papers and Charles Walters and Charlie Orchard.
Click to expand...

Of course. If anyone wants back issues of Acres from the last few years, let me know. I also have copies of the Albrecht Papers, although I'm not really willing to mail them off and share them. Books, papers, the internet have been my "higher learning". I done ain't git me no collidge edumacation, but least my Momma tot me ta read!!
 
It is interesting where this thread has gone. As for going back to the cattle that we had 30 yrs. ago I don't think we need to go there. I understand the reason for using some of the superior bulls of that time frame but our cattle 30 years ago on the average didn't grow enough to pay the bills we have today. Keep in mind that with the higher grain prices that the light calf premium is not quite what it was.

On the mineral topic all I can say is that the variability of available minerals in the soil varies tremendously from one location to another water quality is of serious importance for if you have any sulfer in your water it will make Copper and Zinc unabsorbable to the cattle. All I can say is if you don't need to supplement with mineral don't but if you do need to you had better. Cattle with poor immune systems will not be profitable for the feeder and will have a higher cost of gain and have poorer quailty grades. I should have said profitable to the feeder unless he buys them cheaper and none of us wants to sell cheaper feeders.
 
Well said, WB.

We bought 4 bulls one year from a friend who feeds our brand of mineral.
And we bought 1 bull from a breeder who does not feed his bulls mineral. Bulls were all the same age...guess what bull got hoof rot out of ALL the bulls we owned? This seems to happen with the Pharo bulls too.

The zinc in mineral helps with testicle development and feeding your bulls a good mineral results in cleaner tests and less retests.

And longevity...don't forget longevity is important. Good mineral will keep the cows in the herd longer.

There is so much data supporting the fact that cattle that get mineral
are more valuable to the buyer as they don't get sick in the feedlot.
I am referring to Texas A&M "Ranch to Rail" documented findings...

When we started in this business in 1965 it wasn't such a big deal to lose a calf. Now costs to run a cow are such that you need to save all the calves possible. Mineral can and does make a HUGE difference in less sick/dead cattle/calves. Mineral supplementation was barely in its infancy in the 60's.

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