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Does It Matter

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Northern Rancher said:
Sure didn't want this to turn into an ethics debate just wanted some input to help a neighbor make a decision.
Sorry for the highjack. :oops: Have your neighbor do what works for him and his customers. But do your best to talk him out of becoming a dang seedstock outfit! :wink:
 
I've seen some awfully good cattlemen get thrown off by a few long straight hairs on the tail head and front shoulders. I'd think it may be important to at least knock a few of those off.
 
Ohh he's a pretty successful bull producer in his own right-built it up from one purebred cow to almost 150 registered females. One thing he does that I like is he'll keep using a bull over and over if it works doesn't jump from fad to fad. 95% of his bulls sell within twenty miles of his gate and neighbors can be tough customers-our families have been for 75 years. I bought my first Hereford cows from his Dad in 1974 for $200 a piece-I was 12 years old blowing my summerfallowing wages lol.
 
I don't like my bulls clipped I like to see them in there working clothes . no thrills or frills . as long as there off spring look good in the sale ring that is what pays the bills. I don't buy off of sales I buy private treaty the breeder names his price I say yay or Nay and we go about are busniess. but I like my seed stock producer unlike some on this thread
 
the more i think about this, i think i'd rather have my bulls clipped. IMO, its not that clipping is done to hide anything necessarily and there is a difference between clipping and fitting. when summer rolls around and those clipped bulls are out in the pasture in their "working clothes", they are more likely to look like they did when you bought them vs. a bull that is all haired up in the winter and then slicks off in the summer and looks like a different critter.

maybe i got it all wrong. :D
 
Yanuck said:
Angus 62 said:
A lot of bulls aren't clipped but torched with a propane torch. Have seen some real wrecks and in general is a bad idea perpetuated like a lot of other bad ideas by greed of the seedstock industry.


then obviously you didn't know what you were doing :roll: I'm so glad its bull sale season again, so everyone can get their belly kicks in to the PB breeders....why don't you go back to talking about whose commercial cows can be fed the least amount


I think your missing the concept. :?

It's not how little the cow eats, it's how efficient you can meet the cows nutritional needs.
I think some of this started with Randi showing the picture of the snow covered field. They knew what was under the snow and felt there was sufficient feed for 6 weeks. When the weather turned they made different plans and took the cows home to bales. What's wrong with that?

I leave pasture for winter graze. It works some years others it doesn't. I try and supplement protein to help them make better use of the graze. Some years the cows can stay all winter others they come home where it is more efficient to feed bales.
If the cows requirements are being met what determines what the best method is for doing that?
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
Yanuck said:
Angus 62 said:
A lot of bulls aren't clipped but torched with a propane torch. Have seen some real wrecks and in general is a bad idea perpetuated like a lot of other bad ideas by greed of the seedstock industry.


then obviously you didn't know what you were doing :roll: I'm so glad its bull sale season again, so everyone can get their belly kicks in to the PB breeders....why don't you go back to talking about whose commercial cows can be fed the least amount


I think your missing the concept. :?

It's not how little the cow eats, it's how efficient you can meet the cows nutritional needs.
I think some of this started with Randi showing the picture of the snow covered field. They knew what was under the snow and felt there was sufficient feed for 6 weeks. When the weather turned they made different plans and took the cows home to bales. What's wrong with that?

I leave pasture for winter graze. It works some years others it doesn't. I try and supplement protein to help them make better use of the graze. Some years the cows can stay all winter others they come home where it is more efficient to feed bales.
If the cows requirements are being met what determines what the best method is for doing that?

BMR, there's not a darn thing wrong with it at all...with that same thing in mind, why does everyone assume that all PB breeders feed their cows grain all winter? there's a lot of places that can't graze out, simply far too much snow, this being one of them...but does that make our cows any less "tough" than others? we have only ever fed the cows hay and mineral, and the only difference between comm vs PB's was we tattooed the PB ears. And they either raised a calf or they were down the road, no exceptions to the rule. I realize that there are breeders that don't do things this way, but the assumption that everyone is the same on here gets a little old somedays, and I've said that to you before. As the famous gcreek once told me, we all do it different, and that okay.

Notexsook.... don't let anybody ever tell you you're not special!!
 
Justin said:
the more i think about this, i think i'd rather have my bulls clipped. IMO, its not that clipping is done to hide anything necessarily and there is a difference between clipping and fitting. when summer rolls around and those clipped bulls are out in the pasture in their "working clothes", they are more likely to look like they did when you bought them vs. a bull that is all haired up in the winter and then slicks off in the summer and looks like a different critter.

maybe i got it all wrong. :D

I see what your saying but I guess what i was getting at is i like the private treaty because your not judging bulls disposition in a place he is scared of ( sale Ring) just a opinion I guess
 
Yanuck said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
Yanuck said:
then obviously you didn't know what you were doing :roll: I'm so glad its bull sale season again, so everyone can get their belly kicks in to the PB breeders....why don't you go back to talking about whose commercial cows can be fed the least amount


I think your missing the concept. :?

It's not how little the cow eats, it's how efficient you can meet the cows nutritional needs.
I think some of this started with Randi showing the picture of the snow covered field. They knew what was under the snow and felt there was sufficient feed for 6 weeks. When the weather turned they made different plans and took the cows home to bales. What's wrong with that?

I leave pasture for winter graze. It works some years others it doesn't. I try and supplement protein to help them make better use of the graze. Some years the cows can stay all winter others they come home where it is more efficient to feed bales.
If the cows requirements are being met what determines what the best method is for doing that?

BMR, there's not a darn thing wrong with it at all...with that same thing in mind, why does everyone assume that all PB breeders feed their cows grain all winter? there's a lot of places that can't graze out, simply far too much snow, this being one of them...but does that make our cows any less "tough" than others? we have only ever fed the cows hay and mineral, and the only difference between comm vs PB's was we tattooed the PB ears. And they either raised a calf or they were down the road, no exceptions to the rule. I realize that there are breeders that don't do things this way, but the assumption that everyone is the same on here gets a little old somedays, and I've said that to you before. As the famous gcreek once told me, we all do it different, and that okay.

Notexsook.... don't let anybody ever tell you you're not special!!


There are lots of places that don't have the natural advantage of shelter to let cows graze out all winter. many of those places also grow more feed so they use their natural advantage. I don't remember many saying PB cows get grain all winter but some have commented on over finished bulls and have shied away from those sale while other seem drawn to those kind of bull. I would have to say that probably not one animal shown at Denver or Regina was not fed some grain. :wink:
 
well maybe they're fed a little! :wink: ...and yes lots get show cattle way to fat, in fact in Regina this yr a few judges placed animals lower in the class for that very reason....what I'm trying to say is to lump everyone in a basket doesn't sit very well with me....for instance I know lots of really nice Texans...and others...not so much??!!!! :)
 
Is it safe to say that the higher the sale average the more likely the bulls have received the higher end on the forage/grain ratio? After all, I have never seen a sale that wasn't advertised as feeding a high forage ration. Even one that had some bulls gaining over 5# at a test station was using high forage.
There definitely is a sweet spot to developing bulls and I am happy with the breeder I buy from.
If some of the breeders that are selling 1600# yearling bulls suddenly went to 1200# bulls they would lose most of their customers as they would say they had poor looking bulls that year. Fat is the prettiest colour in the cattle business.
I also learned a long time ago to try avoid being critical of people who are much more successful than I am. They can look after themselves without my help.
 
I haven't bought a clipped bull for so long I can hardly remember what they look like. :wink: Mine all come from a commercial herd right off the cow in October. I don't miss the stress of bull sale season one bit. Sounds like some of us are pretty stressed out already. :lol: :lol:
 
Justin said:
the more i think about this, i think i'd rather have my bulls clipped. IMO, its not that clipping is done to hide anything necessarily and there is a difference between clipping and fitting. when summer rolls around and those clipped bulls are out in the pasture in their "working clothes", they are more likely to look like they did when you bought them vs. a bull that is all haired up in the winter and then slicks off in the summer and looks like a different critter.

maybe i got it all wrong. :D

I could care less either way, we've bought them both ways, but I made alot of money clipping sale bulls through college.

Like many have said, a person should be able to see the bull without all the hair knocked of his top and belly. To me it comes down to presentation. Torching the hair down shows the nitty gritty of what the bull is under all the shag.

It's not like you sit there with 4 blowers and scotch combs on them. You clip the head, brisket, tail, sheath, knock some hair down on the back, & put the torch on them. Done in 5 minutes or so.
 
well put BRG. If selling bulls was easy money everyone would be doing it

I hate to clip, but we do it as it is necessary. Here are a couple examples:

1. When you go to trade off or sell your car, do you take it dirty and with a cracked headlight or do you spend a few bucks and clean it up to hope you get the best price possible.

2. When you go out on your first date trying to impress someone - do you go shaggy hair, unshaven face, or do you clean yourself up to impress her?

We clip ours up, take good pictures, have a nice catalog, do a good video, as everything you do to make them look good or better than your competition will help yoou sale day. Shaggy bulls sale day or in your ads will not impress most. I know that cowboys can see through a good haircut, but first impression is very important.
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Northern Rancher said:
http://www.highlandcattleusa.org/content/Sales%20Catalog%20-%20Color_Catalog.pdf

These guys don't clip lol.

I wander what they would look like if you did :)

I was visiting with a friend who makes a living off of the show ring, and he said some guys are breeding Highlanders to cluby cattle to get the hair. Now that is a different world than what I know.
 
The time I went to Denver that whole show steer deal made as much sense to me as poodles. My neighbor got his kids to body clip a bunch of dun galloway yearlings they made good money they sold as smoky Chars lol.
 

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