Does the united States need a beef export market ?
- Thread starter HAY MAKER
- Start date
Help Support Ranchers.net:
Sandhusker
Well-known member
HAY MAKER said:
Yeah, that approach has worked great in the past. Japan, Korea, China, etc... looked at what we did with Canada and they followed our policies to the letter. I'm sure the plan will work again. :roll:
Well I for one have no urge to eat Tripe,tounge or eyeballs what do you suggest they do with these products??
Be not afraid.I am getting a load of Canadian lumber today and a load of trailer axels a misc parts of which most are imported.If I were to build every trailer with 100% american products for one I could'nt get it built and 2 there would'nt be any profit left in the finished product.Contrary to what you all say when Joe farmer/rancher comes to buy a trailer he want's it for the lowest price possible.Lets take for instance the drop leg jack american made jack $115 imported jack $85 thats how the whole system is and they both do the same job and carry the same warrenty.Tire and wheel assemblies american co made in china $135 china co china tire $92 I could go down this list all day long.Until American's get off the work a little make alot plan they will keep getting out done by foriegn companies.At least the trailers I build are built by American's How many New Tractors are actually built in America you can't have it both way's.
I remember when I was a little kid I saved my money and bought a Huffy 20" bicycle it cost $110 that was nearly 30 years ago now you can buy 2 of the same bicycles for $110 This is'nt the same world and your not going to stop progress weather you like it or not..
Be not afraid.I am getting a load of Canadian lumber today and a load of trailer axels a misc parts of which most are imported.If I were to build every trailer with 100% american products for one I could'nt get it built and 2 there would'nt be any profit left in the finished product.Contrary to what you all say when Joe farmer/rancher comes to buy a trailer he want's it for the lowest price possible.Lets take for instance the drop leg jack american made jack $115 imported jack $85 thats how the whole system is and they both do the same job and carry the same warrenty.Tire and wheel assemblies american co made in china $135 china co china tire $92 I could go down this list all day long.Until American's get off the work a little make alot plan they will keep getting out done by foriegn companies.At least the trailers I build are built by American's How many New Tractors are actually built in America you can't have it both way's.
I remember when I was a little kid I saved my money and bought a Huffy 20" bicycle it cost $110 that was nearly 30 years ago now you can buy 2 of the same bicycles for $110 This is'nt the same world and your not going to stop progress weather you like it or not..
Denny said:
Well we agree on the weather part,ole ma nature usually does what she wants.
But we are far apart on trade,you just dont get it,and probably never will.
There is no doubt in my mind you will buy the cheapest product every time you have a chance,keep it up,keep sending your neighbors job over seas.
As you and your kind keep sending jobs to the chinese,the folks that lost their job can not buy your product.
If it aint BRED BORN OR MADE IN THE USA,I have no use for it........................good luck
PS keep driving your chinese tractors,telling yourself how smart you are.
(Re: opening the border) Do you suppose its the packers way of getting around the SRM removal? What is the US protocol for that?
With the declining dollar and some saying it will drop in half compared to the Euro, and last I saw the Canadian dollar was 1.0137 compared to the American dollar, wouldn't Canadians be losing money to ship this way?
With Congress on the "global economy" train, it will be a trainwreck for the American people.
Until the American people realize that corporate greed via lobbyists is running this country and what is good for the people and America is not the same agenda for corporates.
I read last night they've bought up the NAFTA railroad - Canada is getting it in place and 7000 Mexicans are seeking refuge in Canada because they're afraid of being deported in the US... so US/Canada are busy getting their cheap workforce in place.
Do we need to export or import? No, but until they can get the price of US beef down to the same price as Brazil/Argentina they've got to work the system to the packers advantage. They can't takeover overnight so they have to "gradually" get things done - one step at a time. Think about it, if the American people got upset and started lobbying congress for what is right, we'd win, but if they gradually decompose America they stay right below the American peoples radar (so to speak) and it just takes Corporate America a little longer. Of course they have the money and time to do so.
With the declining dollar and some saying it will drop in half compared to the Euro, and last I saw the Canadian dollar was 1.0137 compared to the American dollar, wouldn't Canadians be losing money to ship this way?
With Congress on the "global economy" train, it will be a trainwreck for the American people.
Until the American people realize that corporate greed via lobbyists is running this country and what is good for the people and America is not the same agenda for corporates.
I read last night they've bought up the NAFTA railroad - Canada is getting it in place and 7000 Mexicans are seeking refuge in Canada because they're afraid of being deported in the US... so US/Canada are busy getting their cheap workforce in place.
Do we need to export or import? No, but until they can get the price of US beef down to the same price as Brazil/Argentina they've got to work the system to the packers advantage. They can't takeover overnight so they have to "gradually" get things done - one step at a time. Think about it, if the American people got upset and started lobbying congress for what is right, we'd win, but if they gradually decompose America they stay right below the American peoples radar (so to speak) and it just takes Corporate America a little longer. Of course they have the money and time to do so.
Kato
Well-known member
Yup, Canadians would be losing money shipping south. Rule 2 is just a formality to get the market back on a legal track, but just because the rule is there doesn't mean it will be used much. There is no flood of Canadian cattle coming across when it opens, so OT can sleep at night now. :wink:
There's something about a lower currency that most American ranchers and farmers haven't experienced yet. That's the fact that the product they have to sell instantly becomes more affordable to foreign buyers. It may not be good for a large portion of your economy, but it is nothing but good news for anyone who exports a product.
Unlike our city cousins, we rural people view a high Canadian dollar as a disaster on par with a major drought or market crash. We are a mainly export based economy, and a low currency is the one advantage we've had over the past thirty years, and is probably the main reason we have become an export based economy.
They are predicting thousands of manufacturing jobs will be lost over the next couple of years here, but the guys in the suits in Toronto are cold enough to say that it's acceptable, because the good news for them is that they can take their winter holidays cheaper. :? It makes me steam every time I listen to the news, and hear how wonderful things are. Alberta and Toronto are rolling right along in the good times, while the rest of us struggle. :roll: :roll: :roll:
Time for another referendum in Quebec. :wink: :wink: That'll bring er back down. :wink:
There's something about a lower currency that most American ranchers and farmers haven't experienced yet. That's the fact that the product they have to sell instantly becomes more affordable to foreign buyers. It may not be good for a large portion of your economy, but it is nothing but good news for anyone who exports a product.
Unlike our city cousins, we rural people view a high Canadian dollar as a disaster on par with a major drought or market crash. We are a mainly export based economy, and a low currency is the one advantage we've had over the past thirty years, and is probably the main reason we have become an export based economy.
They are predicting thousands of manufacturing jobs will be lost over the next couple of years here, but the guys in the suits in Toronto are cold enough to say that it's acceptable, because the good news for them is that they can take their winter holidays cheaper. :? It makes me steam every time I listen to the news, and hear how wonderful things are. Alberta and Toronto are rolling right along in the good times, while the rest of us struggle. :roll: :roll: :roll:
Time for another referendum in Quebec. :wink: :wink: That'll bring er back down. :wink:
Denny, good points! Trade is a fact of life. I'm certainly glad that we have NCBA working to make sure we get the best possible deal for beef, with cutting tarrifs on beef we export in any trade deals with other nations.
Whether or not we NEED to export beef is a moot point. Trade is a fact of life, and like Denny, my family won't eat much of the tongues, liver, and other 'innards'. EPA has made it almost impossible to tan hides (as well as other beef by-product processing) in the USA.
When there are people in other nations willing to pay very good prices for some of our top quality beef, too, it seems logical to trade beef.
When we don't produce enough of the leanest good quality beef needed for hamburger, and we can sell our beef at higher prices than burger meat, it seems logical to trade beef.
I know your argument, haymaker, will be that we producers don't make any money off exported beef. The fact is, we do! We have benefitted when the farmer feeder who bought our yearlings sold them into Japan for more than he could get in the USA. If that happened for us, it surely happens for other cattle producers.
A different of view. Could the fact that some labor unions had their autoworkers sucking around $75.00 (though I heard they had to drop that to around $50 to $60.00) per hour out of the US auto companies , and certainly there were/are comparable situations, have anything to do with out-sourcing????
Laborers in the US have gotten fat and sassy and Unions have gotten greedy and politically demanding of their Dem. compadres.
Too few people are willing to do the work necessary to get the educations needed to get good jobs in the USA today, yet they are draining our welfare resources.
The lesson: "you can be anything you want to be" has been inverted and interpreted by people to mean "you can do/have anything you want with no effort on your part, and no consequences".
Tax rates have been so high on small businessman, who is still the backbone of the US Economy, he has not updated or modernized his store/factory/workshop to keep pace with needs of farmers and other consumers. That has begun to change with the GWBush tax cuts, so the Dems plan to take those away a.s.a.p.
Main street 'Mom & Pop' businesses see others working a 40 hour (or less) week, spending their weekends with their family, and want the same for their own families, so it is nearly impossible to get parts, repairs, or other needs for farms and ranches on weekends.
Those who hate Private Enterprise/the American way/entrepreneurship.....whatever name you choose to call it, and favor socialism to cure our ills, whether medical care/Child care/school systems/Nanny-type government programs.........have been hard at work for years teaching in colleges and clear down to the gradeschool level........so it's no wonder people are calling out: "Government, take care of me and my problems"!!!!
mrj
Whether or not we NEED to export beef is a moot point. Trade is a fact of life, and like Denny, my family won't eat much of the tongues, liver, and other 'innards'. EPA has made it almost impossible to tan hides (as well as other beef by-product processing) in the USA.
When there are people in other nations willing to pay very good prices for some of our top quality beef, too, it seems logical to trade beef.
When we don't produce enough of the leanest good quality beef needed for hamburger, and we can sell our beef at higher prices than burger meat, it seems logical to trade beef.
I know your argument, haymaker, will be that we producers don't make any money off exported beef. The fact is, we do! We have benefitted when the farmer feeder who bought our yearlings sold them into Japan for more than he could get in the USA. If that happened for us, it surely happens for other cattle producers.
A different of view. Could the fact that some labor unions had their autoworkers sucking around $75.00 (though I heard they had to drop that to around $50 to $60.00) per hour out of the US auto companies , and certainly there were/are comparable situations, have anything to do with out-sourcing????
Laborers in the US have gotten fat and sassy and Unions have gotten greedy and politically demanding of their Dem. compadres.
Too few people are willing to do the work necessary to get the educations needed to get good jobs in the USA today, yet they are draining our welfare resources.
The lesson: "you can be anything you want to be" has been inverted and interpreted by people to mean "you can do/have anything you want with no effort on your part, and no consequences".
Tax rates have been so high on small businessman, who is still the backbone of the US Economy, he has not updated or modernized his store/factory/workshop to keep pace with needs of farmers and other consumers. That has begun to change with the GWBush tax cuts, so the Dems plan to take those away a.s.a.p.
Main street 'Mom & Pop' businesses see others working a 40 hour (or less) week, spending their weekends with their family, and want the same for their own families, so it is nearly impossible to get parts, repairs, or other needs for farms and ranches on weekends.
Those who hate Private Enterprise/the American way/entrepreneurship.....whatever name you choose to call it, and favor socialism to cure our ills, whether medical care/Child care/school systems/Nanny-type government programs.........have been hard at work for years teaching in colleges and clear down to the gradeschool level........so it's no wonder people are calling out: "Government, take care of me and my problems"!!!!
mrj
Maple Leaf Angus
Well-known member
HAY MAKER said:
Say, Hay Maker, how ya doin' there ole buddy? It's been a while since we talked! But do me a favor, will ya? Turn your keyboard, your monitor and your hard drive or your tower over and read the "Made in______" sticker, will ya, please?
Maple Leaf Angus said:
I want him to go see :shock: where the made in sticker is on those Blue Tractor's....Every part of them too :!:
18 years ago I could build a livestock trailer and make $1500 profit now the same trailer cost $2000 more and I 'm lucky if I can Clear $800 but dont worry back then I averaged $300 per trailer in paid labor that is now up to $800.There are alot of weeks when the hired help gets more take home pay than the company.
Sandhusker
Well-known member
Denny said:
Before you condemn Americans for "work a little", maybe you should read this; http://money.cnn.com/2007/09/02/news/economy/worker_productivity.ap/index.htm
I'm afraid you're only looking at a small part and ignoring the bigger part of the picture. You're only looking at your immediate cost of production. Cost of business in bigger than that and your cost of living is even bigger than that. Buying foreign parts improves your manufacturing costs today, but mortgages your manufacturing costs, business costs and living costs tomorrow. If everybody bought foreign, a death spiral is created and soon nobody can buy your product because nobody is buying theirs.
A huge part of the reason you can buy those Chinese parts is because of that different world you talk about. They can undercut US suppliers because in their world the citizens leave their sheet-hole homes early in the morning, work all day for sheet wages with sheet benefits and sheet safety regulations and then back to their sheet-hole homes at night. Nobody has cook-outs on the lake after a day of boating. That's the new world you're touting.
Maple Leaf Angus said:
Unfortunately you folks that support and promote trade have limited the options of many Americans,myself included,in the market place with your support the multinational corporations have been able to effectively control the markets with imports,"made in America" stickers are a thing of the past.
I dont believe you trade advocates understand how detrimental trade is to the country.
try selling your trade theories to some one that has his job sent over seas,that has no insurance for his wife and kids,that can not afford your product because he has no job/money............good luck http://www.ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20287
Maple Leaf Angus
Well-known member
I hear what you are saying about the job displacement thing. Any developed country will feel the pain of it for a loooong time to come.
But, speaking of exports, would you please call your corn exporting cousins in Ohio and Michigan and Indiana and share your concerns with them, too? It would really help the price we receive for our home-grown, made in Ontario corn if they would suddenly see things your way.
But make sure you are wearing a coat with a high, very stiff collar . . . . to reduce the rope burns on your neck.
But, speaking of exports, would you please call your corn exporting cousins in Ohio and Michigan and Indiana and share your concerns with them, too? It would really help the price we receive for our home-grown, made in Ontario corn if they would suddenly see things your way.
But make sure you are wearing a coat with a high, very stiff collar . . . . to reduce the rope burns on your neck.
Sandhusker
Well-known member
MRJ, "I'm certainly glad that we have NCBA working to make sure we get the best possible deal for beef"
How can you possibly say that considering the deal we have with Japan (that NCBA supported)? Do you think that is the best possible deal?
How can you possibly say that considering the deal we have with Japan (that NCBA supported)? Do you think that is the best possible deal?
mrj, I wonder, have you ever worked in a factory? It never ceases to amaze me how the unions get criticized here by many. Yet those people who have fought for years for better benefits and pay are the very ones that buy our product. I don't guess you have any criticisms for the CEO's who are making millions in severance pay and annual salaries do you?? And no I am not against corporations but there has to be some middle ground AND I am for the working middle class which is slowly shrinking according to most news reports. With respect to unions- I would be willing to bet they have made more concessions in the past 8 years than in the past twenty to keep their jobs and benefits. I know in my area they have!mrj said:
mrj quote: Too few people are willing............
You speak as if you've either got a good job or you're on welfare-there's no middle ground?
mrj quote:"you can do/have anything you want with no effort on your part and no consequences" I agree with this fallacy, the Republicans proved this statement wrong(especially with respect to the no consequences part) in the last election And if the Dem's don't react to public opinion I hope the same fate befalls them. Also I don't guess small businesses are represented by the polls I have seen here at this site on this administration and congress because if they are doing them so many favors with tax cuts, the polls aren't showing it are they?? I think MOST people understand who the tax cuts are really helping with respect to businesses.
Having seen some of Sandhuskers report on TV, I did a bit of math and find that the USA worker, while most productive, only worked a smidgen over 36 hours per week and the "downtrodden" Chinese workers veraged just 44 hours per week.......using a 50 week work year for quick figuring. Expanded reporting on that subject indicated US workers take less vacation time than most Europeans ( 3 to 4 weeks for EU folks according to the numbers).
BTW, Sandhusker, do you really believe the trade delegation for the USA said to the Japanese counterparts: "oh, you don't need to do THAT well on this deal, we will accept a deal that is less favorable for USA produced beef"? When they got the best deal they could get at the time, that is "the best deal possible". I doubt it will remain static.
Haymaker, you 'forget' that the unemployment rates in the USA is very low. There are many businesses searching for workers., too. Maybe some start-up wages are not high, but many advance good employees quickly. Granted, it may be tough for one income 'families', but assistance is available for people with surprisingly high incomes, IMO. Check out the school lunch free and reduced price lunch income requirements. Even in low income SD, schools are begging people to sign up for those because it helps the school costs.
TSR, we raise beef cattle for a living and I've never held an off-ranch job, though both of our sons wives do so. Everyone on this ranch works very long hours and burns the midnight oil doing bookwork to make a modest living. My spouse and I are ages 71 and 67. While we do take off a bit of time occasionally, and move a little slower than we used to (and with greater pain!), we see no prospect of real retirement unless forced by health considerations. Anyone want to come and re-build some 40+ year old corrals, repair dozens of dams while they still are dry due to the drought, mow the hay yards and ranch roads, haul in the hay, fix fence, wean calves (that's the easy job!), haul gravel onto our roads, keep the equipment required for those jobs in good working order.... and that is only part of the work we would like to accomplish before winter hits hard.
I totally disagree with your hopes for the Dems to correct or help any expectations of people. They are the ones who perfected the system of putting people into groups "needing help" and working to keep them pacified just enough to keep electing Dems, IMO. Consider the War on Poverty. That which is subsidized is what you get more of, isn't it? Behavior that is rewarded is continues, as in the Welfare system before recent attempts at reform.
What do you think has been responsible for the increases in the economy? Or do you disagree with the numbers on that? It HAS been fueled by the tax cuts. EVERYONE who pays income taxes was included in those tax cuts!
I believe unions may have outlived their usefulness, or at the very least, need to change their operations. Too many of them now are a detriment to their members while leadership lives like productive CEO's and badly abuses members dues money, IMO.
While I don't approve obscene salaries and perks, I fear more having government control in determining wages for anyone in business.
mrj
BTW, Sandhusker, do you really believe the trade delegation for the USA said to the Japanese counterparts: "oh, you don't need to do THAT well on this deal, we will accept a deal that is less favorable for USA produced beef"? When they got the best deal they could get at the time, that is "the best deal possible". I doubt it will remain static.
Haymaker, you 'forget' that the unemployment rates in the USA is very low. There are many businesses searching for workers., too. Maybe some start-up wages are not high, but many advance good employees quickly. Granted, it may be tough for one income 'families', but assistance is available for people with surprisingly high incomes, IMO. Check out the school lunch free and reduced price lunch income requirements. Even in low income SD, schools are begging people to sign up for those because it helps the school costs.
TSR, we raise beef cattle for a living and I've never held an off-ranch job, though both of our sons wives do so. Everyone on this ranch works very long hours and burns the midnight oil doing bookwork to make a modest living. My spouse and I are ages 71 and 67. While we do take off a bit of time occasionally, and move a little slower than we used to (and with greater pain!), we see no prospect of real retirement unless forced by health considerations. Anyone want to come and re-build some 40+ year old corrals, repair dozens of dams while they still are dry due to the drought, mow the hay yards and ranch roads, haul in the hay, fix fence, wean calves (that's the easy job!), haul gravel onto our roads, keep the equipment required for those jobs in good working order.... and that is only part of the work we would like to accomplish before winter hits hard.
I totally disagree with your hopes for the Dems to correct or help any expectations of people. They are the ones who perfected the system of putting people into groups "needing help" and working to keep them pacified just enough to keep electing Dems, IMO. Consider the War on Poverty. That which is subsidized is what you get more of, isn't it? Behavior that is rewarded is continues, as in the Welfare system before recent attempts at reform.
What do you think has been responsible for the increases in the economy? Or do you disagree with the numbers on that? It HAS been fueled by the tax cuts. EVERYONE who pays income taxes was included in those tax cuts!
I believe unions may have outlived their usefulness, or at the very least, need to change their operations. Too many of them now are a detriment to their members while leadership lives like productive CEO's and badly abuses members dues money, IMO.
While I don't approve obscene salaries and perks, I fear more having government control in determining wages for anyone in business.
mrj
PORKER
Well-known member
I did a bit of math and find that the USA worker, while most productive, only worked a smidgen over 36 hours per week and the "downtrodden" Chinese workers veraged just 44 hours per week.......using a 50 week work year for quick figuring.
HELL Bells Mrj, Cattle raise'n is a 68 hr per week job !!
HELL Bells Mrj, Cattle raise'n is a 68 hr per week job !!
Sandhusker
Well-known member
MRJ, "BTW, Sandhusker, do you really believe the trade delegation for the USA said to the Japanese counterparts: "oh, you don't need to do THAT well on this deal, we will accept a deal that is less favorable for USA produced beef"? When they got the best deal they could get at the time, that is "the best deal possible". I doubt it will remain static."
:shock: :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Oh "at the time"! :lol: While you're adding qualifications, add "We got the best deal possible with inept negotiators that we could." "We got the best deal possible that Tyson and Cargill would support that we could". "We ignored what we were preaching about "sound science" to the the best deal possible."
MRJ, that wasn't the best deal possible then, now, or anytime. The USDA got schooled and we ended up with a crappy, crappy deal - and NCBA was right there applauding all the time.
:shock: :shock:
:lol: :lol: :lol: Oh "at the time"! :lol: While you're adding qualifications, add "We got the best deal possible with inept negotiators that we could." "We got the best deal possible that Tyson and Cargill would support that we could". "We ignored what we were preaching about "sound science" to the the best deal possible."
MRJ, that wasn't the best deal possible then, now, or anytime. The USDA got schooled and we ended up with a crappy, crappy deal - and NCBA was right there applauding all the time.
PORKER, do you get by with only 68 hours per week? A few years ago, we had a minister who complained about his 60 your weeks. Some ranchers in the congration couldn't understand. They were working 70 to 80 hours per week, most of the year, with a few less for two or three months in the winter when there was only about 8 hours daylight.''
Sandhusker, are you claiming that the US negotiators turned down a better deal from the Japanese than they got? I will grant you that there have been times when we had wimpy negotiators. Some have said that we should send the more notorious of our neighborhood horse traders to do that job! I believe, and more knowledgeable people than I tell me, we have better negotiators now than in many years past. What makes you so sure NCBA wasn't encouraging tougher negotiations? Were you there? Did you hear the conversations........or is that your crystal ball again? It seems a quite accurate guess that you have NO REAL knowledge aboutthe negotiations, and NO PROOF nor even any indication of ANY involvement of Tyson and/or Cargill with either NCBA or the trade negotiators. Just your usual trash talk AGAIN.
mrj
Sandhusker, are you claiming that the US negotiators turned down a better deal from the Japanese than they got? I will grant you that there have been times when we had wimpy negotiators. Some have said that we should send the more notorious of our neighborhood horse traders to do that job! I believe, and more knowledgeable people than I tell me, we have better negotiators now than in many years past. What makes you so sure NCBA wasn't encouraging tougher negotiations? Were you there? Did you hear the conversations........or is that your crystal ball again? It seems a quite accurate guess that you have NO REAL knowledge aboutthe negotiations, and NO PROOF nor even any indication of ANY involvement of Tyson and/or Cargill with either NCBA or the trade negotiators. Just your usual trash talk AGAIN.
mrj
Sandhusker
Well-known member
Yes, negotiators did turn down a better deal - it was "You test and we'll pay".
MRJ, did NCBA approve of the deal or not?
MRJ, did NCBA approve of the deal or not?
PORKER
Well-known member
PORKER, do you get by with only 68 hours per week?
Yes ,the ranch foreman carries the rest .
Yes ,the ranch foreman carries the rest .
