Don't worry Canada - R-CALF is DEAD

[Big Muddy rancher]

I have absolutely no reason to believe you can be "straightened out". I've seen whats been done with direct, easy to understand quotes.

You bring nothing again .Question everything Prove nothing.

The US version of the 4D's
Dance
Dodge
Divert
Deceive

I don't understand why you demand to know R-CALF business and why you would expect me to deliver. You hate us with a passion, you're constantly going to rediculous lengths to bad-mouth us and you're not going to change. You're like Hitler asking the Jews for a passover meal recipe.

Schmuckhusker, you were questioning if the figure was right. If you know different then post your proof. It doesn't matter a bit to me. In fact i wish he would break the R-CALF Bank.
I guess all those people sending in their hard earned dollars must figure they are getting their money's worth.

 

[Kato]

"I don't understand why you demand to know R-CALF business and why you would expect me to deliver. You hate us with a passion, you're constantly going to rediculous lengths to bad-mouth us and you're not going to change. You're like Hitler asking the Jews for a passover meal recipe."

Excuse me??

That's a little over the line don't you think? "You hate us with a passion?" :? :? Hitler? :? :? Good grief. :roll:

We have been kicked when we're down for almost four years now, and we're getting pretty tired of it. And then when a group of people who for all intents and purposes, in normal times, have the same problems and issues as we do, and should be allies, and who we had always considered to be friends, decides that their one purpose in life is to get rid of the evil Canadian cattle producers, what are we supposed to do? Lay down and roll over?

Up until this BSE nonsense, there were a lot of Canadian producers who thought the idea of a grassroots cattle producer organization was a good thing. But somewhere along the road, supporting American cattlemen became synonymous with destroying Canadian cattlemen. That's where you lost us.

Our problems are not each other. Our problems are much bigger. :!:

 

[Sandhusker]

Kato, "Our problems are not each other. Our problems are much bigger"

I AGREE 100%!!!!!!!!!!!

These &^(&ing packers are playing us against each other! You mention you are getting tired of getting kicked, well that's exactly what is happening to US producers when each load of fats comes South. Look in the background of the Van Dyke deal - you have Swift themselves bringing in Canadian fats. Knowing the basics of how supply and demand effect prices, what effect do you think those fats had on the local prices? That's been happening for years! We're getting kicked! That's what got R-CALF started. We realize that Kato, Manitoba Rancher, Rod, etc... aren't depressing our prices. However, we do realize that Swift, Tyson, Cargill, Excel are depressing our prices with the cattle they bought from you.

What we need to do is get these bastards off our backs - yours and ours. NCBA keeps telling us that 96% of the world's population lies outside the US. If so, why is your business plan to serve that 4%? Because that's what Tyson and Cargill want and "Canada" can't do a dang thing about it. There is no "Canada". If there was, "Canada" would tell the US to hang their border polices in their ash and they would then go after the lucrative markets in asia, the EU, etc... Tyson and Cargill are "Canada".

R-CALF isn't your problem. R-CALF is just the tool that exposed your problem. You've got a sore butt, and you're blaming the x-ray that revealed the broom stick up your rectum. Somebody up there is going to have to grow a pair and say, "This isn't cutting it, and this is how we're going to do it now". You've got people like Cam Ostercamp who will do exactly that, but everybody gets wishy washy and says, "You can't pick winners". Horse crap! Pick a winner, and make it be yourselves! Tyson and Cargill did! You think they don't work every angle they can to their advantage? Why do people think they need to apologize for trying to give their own countrymen an advantage over foreigners? That's like a hockey player not wanting to pass directly to his teammate because the defense doesn't get an equal chance at the puck! Are you playing to win or not? But, that dang R-CALF is your problem....kicking us when we're down... Hey, if you're in a position where a foreign trade organization can upset your applecart, you probably deserve it.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Sandhusker, R-CALF didn't start the anti-dumping in 1998 to hurt Cargill and Tyson and they didn't fight to keep the border closed to hurt Tyson and Cargill.
Your just ashamed of what they have done to good farm and ranch people and your making excuses for them. Poor Poor Pitiful you.

 

[Sandhusker]

Sandhusker, R-CALF didn't start the anti-dumping in 1998 to hurt Cargill and Tyson and they didn't fight to keep the border closed to hurt Tyson and Cargill.
Your just ashamed of what they have done to good farm and ranch people and your making excuses for them. Poor Poor Pitiful you.

They didn't do it to "hurt" anybody. They did it to help US producers.

 

[Tam]

Sandhusker, R-CALF didn't start the anti-dumping in 1998 to hurt Cargill and Tyson and they didn't fight to keep the border closed to hurt Tyson and Cargill.
Your just ashamed of what they have done to good farm and ranch people and your making excuses for them. Poor Poor Pitiful you.

They didn't do it to "hurt" anybody. They did it to help US producers.

From what I understand after reading a report on the results of the R-CALF earlier court cases. R-CALF didn't help the US producers as all their court actions did was send Mexico after the US with one of their own trade actions of which THEY WON. :wink: When is R-CALF going to learn to look at the whole picture and not just one or two of the puzzle pieces. :roll:

 

[Sandhusker]

Sandhusker, R-CALF didn't start the anti-dumping in 1998 to hurt Cargill and Tyson and they didn't fight to keep the border closed to hurt Tyson and Cargill.
Your just ashamed of what they have done to good farm and ranch people and your making excuses for them. Poor Poor Pitiful you.

They didn't do it to "hurt" anybody. They did it to help US producers.

From what I understand after reading a report on the results of the R-CALF earlier court cases. R-CALF didn't help the US producers as all their court actions did was send Mexico after the US with one of their own trade actions of which THEY WON. :wink: When is R-CALF going to learn to look at the whole picture and not just one or two of the puzzle pieces. :roll:

Please, Tam, don't even begin to lecture on the "whole picture".

 

[rkaiser]

Kato, "Our problems are not each other. Our problems are much bigger"

I

AGREE 100%!!!!!!!!!!!

These &^(&ing packers are playing us against each other! You mention you are getting tired of getting kicked, well that's exactly what is happening to US producers when each load of fats comes South. Look in the background of the Van Dyke deal - you have Swift themselves bringing in Canadian fats. Knowing the basics of how supply and demand effect prices, what effect do you think those fats had on the local prices? That's been happening for years! We're getting kicked! That's what got R-CALF started. We realize that Kato, Manitoba Rancher, Rod, etc... aren't depressing our prices. However, we do realize that Swift, Tyson, Cargill, Excel are depressing our prices with the cattle they bought from you.

What we need to do is get these bastards off our backs - yours and ours. NCBA keeps telling us that 96% of the world's population lies outside the US. If so, why is your business plan to serve that 4%? Because that's what Tyson and Cargill want and "Canada" can't do a dang thing about it. There is no "Canada". If there was, "Canada" would tell the US to hang their border polices in their ash and they would then go after the lucrative markets in asia, the EU, etc... Tyson and Cargill are "Canada".

R-CALF isn't your problem. R-CALF is just the tool that exposed your problem. You've got a sore butt, and you're blaming the x-ray that revealed the broom stick up your rectum. Somebody up there is going to have to grow a pair and say, "This isn't cutting it, and this is how we're going to do it now". You've got people like Cam Ostercamp who will do exactly that, but everybody gets wishy washy and says, "You can't pick winners". Horse crap! Pick a winner, and make it be yourselves! Tyson and Cargill did! You think they don't work every angle they can to their advantage? Why do people think they need to apologize for trying to give their own countrymen an advantage over foreigners? That's like a hockey player not wanting to pass directly to his teammate because the defense doesn't get an equal chance at the puck! Are you playing to win or not? But, that dang R-CALF is your problem....kicking us when we're down... Hey, if you're in a position where a foreign trade organization can upset your applecart, you probably deserve it.

Pretty darned decent post there Sandhusker. Won't agree that every load of fats going south hurts the American producer, but can't argue with much of the rest.

 

[Northern Rancher]

You know WD40 will take those R-Calf stickers off your bumpers-maybe they'd donate to your cause after their sales go up. The onlt R-Calf I met personally was Leo McDonnell and I had him figured as a spoiled brat riding Daddy's coattails even before R-Calf. It appears now that birds of a feather flocked together. I feel sorry for the good people that R-Calf misled and ripped off-In their own country. Just because R-Calf is run by 'TOOLS' doesn't make it a tool.

 

[Work Hard and Study Hard]

Kato, "Our problems are not each other. Our problems are much bigger"

I AGREE 100%!!!!!!!!!!!

These &^(&ing packers are playing us against each other! You mention you are getting tired of getting kicked, well that's exactly what is happening to US producers when each load of fats comes South. Look in the background of the Van Dyke deal - you have Swift themselves bringing in Canadian fats. Knowing the basics of how supply and demand effect prices, what effect do you think those fats had on the local prices? That's been happening for years! We're getting kicked! That's what got R-CALF started. We realize that Kato, Manitoba Rancher, Rod, etc... aren't depressing our prices. However, we do realize that Swift, Tyson, Cargill, Excel are depressing our prices with the cattle they bought from you.

What we need to do is get these bastards off our backs - yours and ours. NCBA keeps telling us that 96% of the world's population lies outside the US. If so, why is your business plan to serve that 4%? Because that's what Tyson and Cargill want and "Canada" can't do a dang thing about it. There is no "Canada". If there was, "Canada" would tell the US to hang their border polices in their ash and they would then go after the lucrative markets in asia, the EU, etc... Tyson and Cargill are "Canada".

R-CALF isn't your problem. R-CALF is just the tool that exposed your problem. You've got a sore butt, and you're blaming the x-ray that revealed the broom stick up your rectum. Somebody up there is going to have to grow a pair and say, "This isn't cutting it, and this is how we're going to do it now". You've got people like Cam Ostercamp who will do exactly that, but everybody gets wishy washy and says, "You can't pick winners". Horse crap! Pick a winner, and make it be yourselves! Tyson and Cargill did! You think they don't work every angle they can to their advantage? Why do people think they need to apologize for trying to give their own countrymen an advantage over foreigners? That's like a hockey player not wanting to pass directly to his teammate because the defense doesn't get an equal chance at the puck! Are you playing to win or not? But, that dang R-CALF is your problem....kicking us when we're down... Hey, if you're in a position where a foreign trade organization can upset your applecart, you probably deserve it.

Shutting the border down started to help them and us, they learned how to open packing plants and export markets and we learned how not carrying them on our backs made our domestic prices higher. It seems that since the border has been opened to UTM cattle their new packing plants are not being built.

 

[Anonymous]

Sandcheska: "Look in the background of the Van Dyke deal - you have Swift themselves bringing in Canadian fats. Knowing the basics of how supply and demand effect prices, what effect do you think those fats had on the local prices?"

WHAT EFFECT DO YOU THINK THOSE FATS HAD ON LOCAL PRICES??

Hmmmm???

Creating another illusion?

How do you explain the fact that our feeder calf prices reached an all time high in 2005 WHEN EVERY R-CULTER WAS PREDICTING THAT OPENING THE CANADIAN BORDER WOULD RUIN OUR MARKETS???

One of the biggest problem with the R-CULT/LMA clan is they don't have a clue about what factors affect cattle markets and to what degree.

In 2005 we had the highest feeder cattle prices ever recorded with an opened Canadian border, the same level of packer concentration, and virtually the same level of captive supplies and folks still listen to these LMA market analysts. LOL! I guess that will be puzzling scientists for years.

One time I called into a talk show with Bullard, Johnny Smith, and Mike Callicrate and asked them "if captive supplies and packer concentration are the reason for lower cattle prices, which of those factors changed to allow markets to go higher". You should have seen the dance. Nobody came close to answering the question so I called back in and asked the same question and everyone of them gave a different STATEMENT the second time than the first. LOL! Unbelievable!

Gooooooo R-CULT!


~SH~

 

[Econ101]

Sandcheska: "Look in the background of the Van Dyke deal - you have Swift themselves bringing in Canadian fats. Knowing the basics of how supply and demand effect prices, what effect do you think those fats had on the local prices?"

WHAT EFFECT DO YOU THINK THOSE FATS HAD ON LOCAL PRICES??

Hmmmm???

Creating another illusion?

How do you explain the fact that our feeder calf prices reached an all time high in 2005 WHEN EVERY R-CULTER WAS PREDICTING THAT OPENING THE CANADIAN BORDER WOULD RUIN OUR MARKETS???

One of the biggest problem with the R-CULT/LMA clan is they don't have a clue about what factors affect cattle markets and to what degree.

In 2005 we had the highest feeder cattle prices ever recorded with an opened Canadian border, the same level of packer concentration, and virtually the same level of captive supplies and folks still listen to these LMA market analysts. LOL! I guess that will be puzzling scientists for years.

One time I called into a talk show with Bullard, Johnny Smith, and Mike Callicrate and asked them "if captive supplies and packer concentration are the reason for lower cattle prices, which of those factors changed to allow markets to go higher". You should have seen the dance. Nobody came close to answering the question so I called back in and asked the same question and everyone of them gave a different STATEMENT the second time than the first. LOL! Unbelievable!

Gooooooo R-CULT!


~SH~

It is because, SH, all of the people mentioned know that you are so limited in your intellectual prowess that you can not tell the difference between short term and long term.

Any time there is a price that is below the market equilibrium (short run example here), it sends a signal to producers to get out of the market. Plant pine trees, put in the CRP, have your sons or daughters go to the big city to make a living, and in your case, go off the farm and onto a cushy (relatively) government job.

Then the Sec. of Ag. has the audacity to moan about the average age of producers going up? It is a result of the cheap food policy we have in the U.S. where govt. spending and housing values continually going up are more important than our food supply.

The long run affect of less production relative to demand in inelastic (and other) commodities like food is higher prices because supply did not react to the real equilibrium. It reacted to the one influenced by market power.

I don't expect you would understand any of this, and the people you mentioned before are smart enough to know that too. They just don't want to waste their time on someone like you who can not grasp any concept you don't already herald, regardless of the facts.

Go to community college and take a course in basic economics and market theory. You may not get your money's worth, but at least you will have tried.

 

[Tam]

Has anyone checked out the R-CALF web site lately I did yesterday and again today

Yesterday Leo, Kiker, Wooster, and Dennis McDonald were all on the Directors profile page, Today they are not. Leo is gone all together and the Regions that Kiker, Wooster and McDonald represented are under construction. :shock: :lol: Kiker was Texas, Wooster was West coast and Hawaii and McDonald was Montana and North West Coastal region plus a founder of R-CALF.

I also notice that Brett DeBruycker is no longer mentioned as the Co Chair of International Trade. In fact there is no mention of a International Trade committee at all. Just Two Committees Thornsberry as BSE committee and Stevenson as Co Chair of Marketing. Of which there is no mention of the other half of the CO part of that Chair. WHAT IS HAPPENING :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Tam]

Shutting the border down started to help them and us, they learned how to open packing plants and export markets and we learned how not carrying them on our backs made our domestic prices higher. It seems that since the border has been opened to UTM cattle their new packing plants are not being built.

WHSH would you do yourself a favor and go look at the USDA import records for 2003 and 2004.
http://www.fas.usda.gov/ustrade/USTImFAS.asp?QI=
Go to the first box marked Counties and highlight "Select all Counties" from the list, Then go to the second box and scroll down and find "Beef and Veal" . Then hit the Submit bar at the bottom. Read the totals at the bottom of the chart. Notice the over a Billion more dollars worth of imports in 2004 over those in 2003.
Your domestic prices continued to climb even though you were importing over a billion dollars more beef than you did before the border closed.
NOW explain to all of us how the lack of Canadian imports affected your domestic prices If you don't mind. :?

 

[Judith]

Sooo WHSH what state do you hail from? Curious that's all....

 

[Northern Rancher]

State of Confusion!

 

[Shortgrass]

That is the difference between an organization run from the roots (by the membership) up and one controlled from the top down.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

That is the difference between an organization run from the roots (by the membership) up and one controlled from the top down.

Your right on thay.
Haven't we been told that R-CALF membership got to vote on everything.


Does anybody know how many resoulutions were on the mail out ballots from the convention?

 

[Sandhusker]

That is the difference between an organization run from the roots (by the membership) up and one controlled from the top down.

Your right on thay.
Haven't we been told that R-CALF membership got to vote on everything.


Does anybody know how many resoulutions were on the mail out ballots from the convention?

And you are concerned because.....?

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

That is the difference between an organization run from the roots (by the membership) up and one controlled from the top down.

Your right on that.
Haven't we been told that R-CALF membership got to vote on everything.


Does anybody know how many resolutions were on the mail out ballots from the convention?

And you are concerned because.....?

I am not as much concerned as overjoyed at the trickle of news we are hearing about R-CALF. I was just curious as to if they live up to what they say they do. We have been lead to believe that their organization was superior to NCBA or any Canadian one.

Guess with you for the information officer they are going to be as secretive as the KLAN.

Would you divulge that information if a US producer asked? You know a possible new member.