EPD Thoughts

[Howdy1]

As I have been following the thread Select Sires and in out past discussions about bulls. I have been doing some pondering.

In the past we tried to keep our EPD numbers high but not excessive. We never bought a bull with a milk epd higher than average ( for angus say 22 mepd). Now it seems all the bulls have epd's in the 30's and we have even bought some of them the last few years and can't say I see any difference in the milking ability or how the cow has changed as far as upkeep. We still feed the same and operate the same way and nothing has changed for our cows. So the point I am trying to get to is, are epd's getting blown out of proportion ( not the use of them, but the numbers themselves)? These high WW epd and YW epd's are crazy but I don't see my calves getting and heavier come fall. Usually any change in weight being it +/- is usually due to forage conditions more than genetics.

Some people won't buy a bull with a +100YW epd, but will it really change the cattle that much from a +50YW epd bull? I am starting to have my doubts and the only epd's I really am picky about is BW epd and Direct CE epd. This is for more my heifers benefit than the cows.

Anyway I stilll use them in deciding on bulls but I am more inclined to look at the critter first and them let the numbers do their work in helping me sort thru them. Sometimes no matter how good the epd's, a turd is still a turd. Pardon the saying. :lol:

 

[RSL]

Good discussion. I think there is a difference between the cattle, but if your management stays the same then it may not be fully expressed. I think for a lot of folks the challenge shows up later when a few cows are a "bit skinny" so you feed 1 extra bale here and there. Pretty soon the management has changed for the cows, not the cows to the management.
We are finding it hard to get cattle with balance in their numbers as well (especially AI sires). Around here, high milk cattle tend to keep growing and frame up too much. The ones that make it do have good calves, but a lot get trimmed along the way.
I always tell groups I work with to look back over bulls they have used that have really worked well, and buy more cattle with that type of EPD profile.

 

[3 M L & C]

Epd's aren't exact I agree, but they are the best thing you have to go on. No matter how good the bulls numbers are half of a calves dna comes from the cow. One other point I would make is the milk epd is the most overated epd there is. The diference between a bull with a milk epd of 20 and one of 30 is 10 pound at a calves weaning time there are tons of ways to get or lose 10 pounds by weaning time to put so much enphasis on milk.

 

[Galloway2]

We are seeing a renewed interest in our breed, due to NOT having EPDs.

Customers are buying cattle based on what they are, not what they are estimated to be.

They select the cattle visually and use the actual weights and history of sire and dam.

 

[3 M L & C]

How do acctual weights give good indication of genetic potential? Around here spring born calves with a good summer of grass weigh a lot more than fall born calves. With no other reason than environment. A dry summer and the spring and fall are closer to the same weight. A breeder could put there calves on creep feed and get some outrages weining numbers, and some do. Birth weights on calves is also directly related to condition. Calves born in Sep Oct after a hot dry summer will have lower birth weights than exact same genetics born in Jan, Feb during a cold winter. That dosn't make the fall born calves sires easier calving just the condition. Using bulls with high accurate epd's is the only way to accurately have an idea what your getting.

 

[katrina]

We have done the whole dog and pony show... In my exspiriance in aiing.. The big spread bulls really didn't do that well.. As in really light birthweigh to big weaning weight(curve benders) As far as epds birth weight is pretty true.. But from then on it's a guess.... I don't know if it's just me or what, but in the angus breed I'm finding it harder to find something I really like.. I have a tendency to look at the value added numbers and can find some correspondence with the bull....One thing that I can say is that the consumption rate has decreased. We are feeding less high energy and the background calves are as good or better than years ago.
Right now with month old calves on the ground the eagle eye calves look really good. Better than the Demention bull.. I have heard alot of rumblings about the milk from big time angus breeders, but know one has come out and really said what they mean....