Factors Affecting Beef Flavor

[per]

Not trying here to convince any of you of anything, just adding food for thought. Having a mini lab on the tailgate of the pickup is fun and empowering. Knowing when the sugars are up in the plant can affect when you cut hay. You can make good feed better just by knowing when to cut it. If you are using any sort of amendment from mainstream fert to fish to manure you can test which will work best and adjust the timing using an EC meter. Raising the brix by a half a point can mean the hoppers or lygas will prefer your neighbors crop to yours. Knowing which parricide's and when the timing affects dung beetles can make a huge difference in nutrient cycling in a natural system. There are tidbits from PureCountries world that could make most systems better. Having a working knowledge of the different biology can mean the difference between aerobic and anaerobic compost. Little, easy, inexpensive things can make a difference to the bottom line.

It would be nice to harvest hay at optimal nutrition. The reality here is to get it put up when you can between break downs, other jobs, and weather delays .

Amen to that.

I put up 700 acres of hay mostly by myself from mid june until early september some times later.In a perfect world maybe but I'm not there yet.

I understand about putting up hay and acres and restraints and all of that. We have the same issues. I do however keep track of the hay that was cut at an optimum time and keep most of it separate to be used in a time when a higher plane of nutrition is warranted. Not all of us are those small hippie dope smoking stuck in the sixties folks that were mentioned earlier. I also hate going to the farmers markets and just like being a producer. Take the tidbits and use them to your advantage. Discard the rest. This knowledge could be your unfair advantage.

If it sounds like there is any edge in what I wrote, there wasn't. I just enjoy the conversation and topic. Please don't take any offence.

 

[WyomingRancher]

Speaking for myself, I certainly don't take offense to anything said in these posts. Ranchers is a fantastic learning tool, and the majority of replies are in a respectful manner with conversation which MAKES YOU THINK. Debate is a good thing, and I wouldn't log on daily if we all agreed all of the time. There are certainly passionate people on here, and it's neat to see ranchers actually come together and discuss something, other than criticizing the other neighbor's operation from over the fence line/state line/country border :lol: .

 

[Cal]

Nice trio of baling outfits, per. What do you cut with?

 

[per]

I use a 1340 Heston diskbine and have a custom outfit cut with me on our farther from home land. He uses a JD SP (not sure of the number). These are his balers. Mine were baling at our home place (couldn't find a pic ) He farms all around this place so it keeps me off 10km of freeway and a set of scales. Part of my environmental bent is to trade rather than travel.

 

[andybob]

High Plains, while I agree that not everyone is in a position to 'go it alone' in direct marketing, proximty to markets, herd size or even choice of breed may all be restricting factors. The way forward for most cattle producers is to network, identify the target market, bring in the producers who can provide consistant quality of breeding stock (F1 females and quality terminal bulls), produce the desired marketable calves, have them finished according to the market requirements (corn fed/grass finished) and contract in the slaughterin and packing facility. When I had my registered herd, I started providing F1 females for another ranch that bred the terminal generation and corn finished the progeny for a family abattoir and butchery, this started as a small but profitable sideline to my purebred and grass finished sales, but as more producers came on board to meet increasing demand, it became the major part of my operation, grossing even more than my export side of the stud. This type of networking needs a lot of planning, a base of producers you can trust and work well with and more hard work than you will believe to get it working, but it pays off in the long term to not be at the mercy of the packers.

 

[andybob]

How would the cost of production of grassfed beef compare to feedlot finished, corn-fed beef if we eliminated the corn subsidies

I know in my situation I can produce my grass-fed beef cheaper than than I could by feeding grain and selling the beef for the same price. There is very, very little cost in grass fattening cattle in an good moisture area that grows grass well In a substantially drier or desert situation I don't think that would hold true as I can't see how you could get enough gain on the cattle to sell them young enough. We are harvesting solar power with our cattle and without the drugs, fertilizers, grain and machinery.

I don't know I would entirely agree with purecountry on the soil testing thing. It's a fascinating science and I would like to learn more about it but testing in itself does not make the soil good - it only tells you if it is good, bad or intermediate. Equally you could "read" the soil by watching the forage growth and diversity and how the animals are performing on it. I can sure tell with my grass-fed steers in the fall if the sugar levels are high enough - it shows in the finish and the shine on the cattle.

When I was still grass finishing in Africa, I was taking the steers to between 2 1/2 and 3 years on veld with mineral suppliment only. The beauty of this system was, that in a drought, I could quickly de-populate unfinished stock to the feedlots upcountry without having to reduce my breedin herd, or cull my wildlife too drastically. The veld reared beef was central to the export market through the government controlled Cold Storage Commission.

 

[Denny]

I was'nt saying anyone was a hippy dope smoker just the one's around here that I've ran into.I'm related to some of them they worry about chemical's and pesticides then they sit in the house and smoke home grown pot like it's healthy.I was'nt offended and I hope you were'nt also. thanks.

 

[Grassfarmer]

Andybob, I bet your 2.5 - 3 year olds made great beef too! Unfortunately in a climate where there is a major winter period requiring feeding keeping them over a second winter is just not economic. At that point I think grass-fed would lose it's low rearing cost advantage to grain feeding. In our good moisture/good grass area we can process the steers at no more than 18 months and get 600lb carcasses which is about the weight our customers want.

 

[andybob]

I understand your system fitting your environment, Grassfarmer, I was just posting the information as a matter of interest, by way of contrast to how I and others operated in the opposite climate type to yours, being in the UK now, housing is very much a consideration with the 18 month target being the most common, 12 month Scotch beef being a high end of the market product, and 3 yr grass fed more confined to the better drained chalk downs and Welsh mountains.

 

[PureCountry]

I just can't help reiterating my point, that I have no interest whatsoever in debating corn/barley fed VS grassfed VS chicken VS pork. Let me explain it another way.

If someone proved to me tomorrow that grass-finished beef had no health benefits over grain-fed, and proved that they were both healthy, I'd change what I'm doing.

If someone proved that chemicals, antibiotics, growth hormones and such DON'T END UP IN THE MEAT, I'd consider changing things.

Now try the shoe on for yourself. Denny, if someone proved to you that corn, syrup, distillers by-products and whatever else you mentioned, were leaving residues in the meat that were bad for you, would you keep feeding them to cows?


Grassfarmer - testing your soils isn't just a tell-tale sign of healthy food. The Brix test will tell you that, or as you say, a keen eye. The soil test is also a way to find out what you need to properly amend your soils. If you think your soils are healthy, that's fine. We have hundreds of acres of creeping cedar, cactus, and poplars that are as old as me(30-something), but only 10 feet tall, and crooked as a politician. When I look at that type of pasture, my eye tells me that we need lots of organic matter, and better management. What my eye cannot tell me, is what's going on with all the nutrients and how far out of whack the ratios are. When I see those base saturation levels on a soil test, I can decide what to do. Maybe I buy products to add, like calcium or microbial applications. Maybe I just bale graze and manage my rest-rotation to build up organic matter and hope for the best. But without a soil test, I don't know what's going on in there.

 

[High Plains]

The knowledge of this information (explained below in NCBA's politically correct version) keeps me from losing sleep at night. I think we'd all be better off if we all just threw away the implants on the same day. But, since that's not going to happen...

Hormones & Growth Promotants

ANIMAL HEALTH - HORMONE USE



NCBA Staff Contact:
Dr. Elizabeth Parker, Chief Veterinarian
202-347-0228
[email protected]



Summary:
As producers in the beef industry, we rely on a steady supply of new and innovative animal health products to keep our herds healthy and help provide American consumers with a safe and wholesome beef supply.



Background:
Numerous U.S. and international scientific studies have shown that the U.S. cattle industry produces safe and wholesome beef. Growth-promoting hormones help stimulate growth by increasing the efficiency in which feed is converted to muscle. Certain products, when administered to animals in very small amounts, supplement their natural hormone production and improve growth rates by allowing the animal to produce more muscle and less fat. This helps the industry produce leaner beef for consumers.



Key Points:

· The growth promotants used in cattle production are vigorously tested by the FDA for safety – both for the animals' well-being and for the trace amounts that may be in meat consumed by humans – and have been approved as safe.

· There is a three-level threshold process that creates an enormous margin of safety to protect human health:

1. It begins by identifying a level at which no effect on human health is seen in research studies.

2. To that level, FDA adds a margin of safety (essentially taking the no-effect level and multiplying it many times over.)

3. And the final threshold is at the production level where the level used in cattle is far less than the margin of safety FDA sets.

· As an example, FDA has set a tolerance on estrogen levels in beef from cattle receiving an estrogen-containing implant. The safe level is 21 billionths of a gram. On average, a serving of beef actually has a fraction of that allowable level (.3 billionths of a gram) nearly 57,000 times lower than what the FDA allows, and thousands of times lower than what our bodies naturally produce, not to mention a fraction of what is present in many other foods such as soybean oil, cabbage, cereals and grains.

· The scientific conclusions of the FDA, the World Organization for Animal Health and the Codex Alimentarius Commission, the world's food safety body, indicate that the miniscule amount of estrogen in beef from cattle receiving implants is well below any level that would be of significance to humans.

· In most instances, estrogen levels in beef from implanted cattle are so low, that it's virtually impossible to detect. Consequently the data illustrates the use if estrogen-containing implants has no impact on humans.

 

[RobertMac]

I think the best point PC has made is that we need to improve the image of out product. For over 30 years, the public has been told by everyone one from their local doctor to TV sit-coms that beef is high in saturate fats that cause high cholesterol that cause heart attacks that will kill. Whether we, as producers, agree with all, part, or none of it is really irrelevant...what matters is what the consumer believes.

HP has made the point that beef is 240% higher priced than pork and poultry...so can we really compete on a price basis?

We do have high-end gourmet product, but that is only about 25% of a carcass and the highest valued loins have lots of fat.

To improve beef demand, we have to improve beef's image. Doing the same old thing, only cheaper isn't going to work...at least not for producers. So, what's the answer?

 

[leanin' H]

I agree that we ALL need to market our product better. And i firmly believe we gotta stand together or fall apart! Grass vs. corn. Big vs. little. Angus vs. everybody! Ranchers have to find thier niche and then produce the best product possible. Hormone and anti-biotic free or truck loads of weaners heading for huge feedyards, everyone needs to insure that their calves are better than average. Quality over quanity everytime! By working smarter and harder to improve every animal, you will find better checks regardless who writes them to you! :wink:

 

[Denny]

Pure Country asked if it were proven that feeding by-product's were bad would I chose not to.To this I answer yes though I can't see where feeding sweet corn silage is or beet tailings which are basically the peeling's and the top's.Distillars grains are used as a protein and energy source.In our home raised corn and hay no commercial fertilizer's are used we do spray the corn which is all Round-up ready.Price is the reason we don't use commercial fertilizer's as we can get the feed elsewhere for less $$$$$$$'ss per ton.Most of the product's that we feed here as by-product's are by-products of the human food chain.I embrace technology and don't feel it is destroying the world but I remember cultivateing corn and walking soybean field's hand picking weed's.

 

[RobertMac]

I agree that we ALL need to market our product better. And i firmly believe we gotta stand together or fall apart! Grass vs. corn. Big vs. little. Angus vs. everybody! Ranchers have to find thier niche and then produce the best product possible. Hormone and anti-biotic free or truck loads of weaners heading for huge feedyards, everyone needs to insure that their calves are better than average. Quality over quanity everytime! By working smarter and harder to improve every animal, you will find better checks regardless who writes them to you! :wink:

I agree that it's not about grass vs. corn; organic vs. conventional; big producer vs. hobby farmer; or about any breed being best. It's about raising and finishing healthy cattle that produce, what I believe, the most health beneficial food consumers can eat. We have let our product be defined by the politically correct opposition...I remember beef being hammered long before I became a beef producer.
I don't understand why producers on here let this topic fall flat when it is the most important factor in your future survival!