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Big Muddy rancher

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Well our Vigortone meeting finally happened tonight. I got to meet Casey and Joe Best. Real nice informative talk by both of them and i saw some pictures of your cows. Not many people showed up but we had supper then listened to the presentations and talk and asked questions until about 9:30. I will probably see Roger next week as I need a ton of mineral to hold me until my summer shipment comes in. We are still waiting our first calf. They are close but will probably wait until it rains or snows. I told Casey to ask you to see the article that you wrote for us. Thanks agian for your paitence with us guys in explaining Vigortones mineral program to us. :cowboy:
 
I was glad to help. Thank you for giving it a try.

It saddens me when I hear people tell of all their problems with sick cattle when I know for sure that they don't need to have them. It is hard for some to grasp that all they need is a good mineral program to balance what they are already doing. Cattle don't need much doctoring when their immune system is up to par. I bet we haven't used a whole bottle of LA-200 in 5 years, or anything else for that matter. Hard to believe when our basement used to look like a laboratorybecause we had so many drugs to treat cattle.

Sure, mineral does cost; but the savings in every other part of your cattle operation sure makes up for it. Plus the added pounds you'll see when on a year-round mineral program actually makes you money and your life is alot easier. We used to worry about sickness when we got a spring storm on the calves, but not any more. They don't even slow down.

Your post reminds me, I got a call from a fellow up there because of the article in the magazine and I do need to call him back. Can I tell him to contact you to get some mineral? Otherwise, I don't know how he can get it in Canada.
 
Sure tell him to call and I will see if I can help him out. We got our first calf some time in the night. It was a Hfrs first off of a TC Advantage bull that we used for the first time last year so alway wonder how it going to go for the first few.
When Casey showed the pics of the copper deficency cow and how some older cows don't eat the mineral I think I have a couple old girls that aren't eating. But being the are the oldest cows they won't be here much longer so will be interesting to see cattle go into production that have been on the program right thru there life cycle.
 
I have a question too. Or maybe it's a statement. LOL
We've had the mineral out continuously now since Sept or Oct of last year, they went thru ruffly one 50# bag ever 2 to 3 days there for a long time, since the grass has greened up, and they walked away from hay, it's like they've also walked away from the mineral. There's some in the mineral feeder, that's been there now goin on about 3 weeks. They are eatin it slowly, but nothin like what they did thru the fall and winter months. Is it because the new green grass has more mineral content and they just don't need as much mineral supplement? or are they just too busy eatin green grass to take the time to go to the mineral feeder?
 
the_jersey_lilly_2000 said:
I have a question too. Or maybe it's a statement. LOL
We've had the mineral out continuously now since Sept or Oct of last year, they went thru ruffly one 50# bag ever 2 to 3 days there for a long time, since the grass has greened up, and they walked away from hay, it's like they've also walked away from the mineral. There's some in the mineral feeder, that's been there now goin on about 3 weeks. They are eatin it slowly, but nothin like what they did thru the fall and winter months. Is it because the new green grass has more mineral content and they just don't need as much mineral supplement? or are they just too busy eatin green grass to take the time to go to the mineral feeder?

Are you feeding Vigortone? Could be their nutritional needs are being better met.
 
No it's not vigortone, we compared several different brands, that are specifically designed for our area, and there's not much difference between the vigortone, right now, and the one we are using, MG. Price per bag is a huge difference, or was at the time we started using it. I can't tell you what the prices are now on the other two, but we are payin $12.00 for 50# bag of the MG. At the time we compared them, vigortone ran about 17.95 a bag, and Right Now was right at that same price.

I was just wonderin if it was because of the new green grass havin what they need or if the cows just aren't takin the time to go to the mineral feeders because we had such a drought thru the fall and winter last year, and now the grass is green, I think they are excited LOL
 
Jersey Lilly, in the spring in our country the grass contains more phos and cows won't overeat phosphorus. How much phos is in the mineral you are feeding? You might want to try a mineral with less phos.

There is so much good in green grass, about the only thing lacking is dry matter. I wouldn't worry a great deal about them not eating as much mineral right now. Of course, if they will it is better because after calving their requirements of everything go up, due to lactation. Nature just dictates that they might back off the mineral. That is why we figure mineral consumption for a year, not for a week or a month. Are the calves eating it? Here, in the spring the calves are at the mineral feeders more than the cows. It is so good for them.

Take a look at the phos to cal ratio and let me know. Then, hopefully, we can figure something out.
 
the_jersey_lilly_2000 said:
I have a question too. Or maybe it's a statement. LOL
We've had the mineral out continuously now since Sept or Oct of last year, they went thru ruffly one 50# bag ever 2 to 3 days there for a long time, since the grass has greened up, and they walked away from hay, it's like they've also walked away from the mineral. There's some in the mineral feeder, that's been there now goin on about 3 weeks. They are eatin it slowly, but nothin like what they did thru the fall and winter months. Is it because the new green grass has more mineral content and they just don't need as much mineral supplement? or are they just too busy eatin green grass to take the time to go to the mineral feeder?
We leave free choice mineral out,they eat it when they need it,and leave it when they don't.They seem to be smarter then humans that way :D
 
That isn't necessarily true, Mrs. Greg, but not necessairly wrong either.

Hi phos in mineral will definitely stop them from eating it and you can go to a lower phos mineral in order to still get all the trace minerals in them. Of course, lower phos mineral is cheaper too.

Getting the trace minerals in them at this time of year is pretty important, IF we can get it done.
 
I don't have a tag here at the house, will hafta remember to grab one at the feedhouse when I go out to feed Lil Lilly's heifers this evenin.

I know they are still eatin it, to some degree, just not as much as they were thru the winter. The calves are at the feeder just as often as the cows are.

LOL I keep pullin the tags off...when I need to look, then bout the time I finally throw one away, I need it again. :roll:
 
Faster horses said:
That isn't necessarily true, Mrs. Greg, but not necessairly wrong either.

Hi phos in mineral will definitely stop them from eating it and you can go to a lower phos mineral in order to still get all the trace minerals in them. Of course, lower phos mineral is cheaper too.

Getting the trace minerals in them at this time of year is pretty important, IF we can get it done.
Yes your right too,our area we don't need selenium,so our mineral doesn't have it.I guess if you get the right mineral for your area then if they are not eating it, then they don't need it...does that sound right?
 
It just isn't that simple...I wish it were.

If you are feeding mineral that contains salt and you have alkiali spots in your pasture, your cattle probably need a mineral with less salt. (Cows won't overeat salt unless they are forced to; and they won't overeat phosphorus. Both are limiters.)

Cattle can also build a tolerance to salt if fed too much. That is why we don't want anyone mixing the salt with the mineral. If you want to feed extra salt, put it beside the mineral, not mixed in. The salt requirement for cattle isn't very high and is mostly important during hot weather. What benefit do we get from over feeding salt? I can't think of any. Ranchers use it to cut down on mineral costs, but the mineral can't do its job as well when it is diluted with salt. I explain it this way: "You wouldn't give your cow a 1/2 dose of vaccine, would you?" Same thing applies to adding salt to mineral.

Cattle on gumbo won't eat much mineral. You have to feed a special kind in that situation; one with lower phos and no salt.

In our area, which is a big area, most of the cattle eat the same mineral based on grass samples. There really isn't a wide variation. Once in a great while, we will find a tie-up or something odd, but we only have one ranch in a huge area that has to feed a different blend. Our customers basically use one of three blends and everyone is very satisfied.

Interesting that Simmental and Charolais cattle have higher mineral requirements than other cattle. This information has been documented in many studies. It has something to do with their metabolism being slower.

Hope this helps, and I didn't confuse you. I got a little off-track there.
 
Well it matters to me, when those three brands vary very little. like .01% difference..that's not alot of difference with ingredients, when your talkin a savings of almost 6.00 a bag. Now if I compared and the cheap brand was lacking alot in some of the ingredients, no it woudlnt be a savings. But when they are soooo close to bein the same formula.....savings comes into play.
 
Faster horses said:
It just isn't that simple...I wish it were.

If you are feeding mineral that contains salt and you have alkiali spots in your pasture, your cattle probably need a mineral with less salt. (Cows won't overeat salt unless they are forced to; and they won't overeat phosphorus. Both are limiters.)

Cattle can also build a tolerance to salt if fed too much. That is why we don't want anyone mixing the salt with the mineral. If you want to feed extra salt, put it beside the mineral, not mixed in. The salt requirement for cattle isn't very high and is mostly important during hot weather. What benefit do we get from over feeding salt? I can't think of any. Ranchers use it to cut down on mineral costs, but the mineral can't do its job as well when it is diluted with salt. I explain it this way: "You wouldn't give your cow a 1/2 dose of vaccine, would you?" Same thing applies to adding salt to mineral.

Cattle on gumbo won't eat much mineral. You have to feed a special kind in that situation; one with lower phos and no salt.

In our area, which is a big area, most of the cattle eat the same mineral based on grass samples. There really isn't a wide variation. Once in a great while, we will find a tie-up or something odd, but we only have one ranch in a huge area that has to feed a different blend. Our customers basically use one of three blends and everyone is very satisfied.

Interesting that Simmental and Charolais cattle have higher mineral requirements than other cattle. This information has been documented in many studies. It has something to do with their metabolism being slower.

Hope this helps, and I didn't confuse you. I got a little off-track there.
Didn't confuse me at all,interesting info.Thank-you
 
Jersey, what you have to remember is it is realatively easy to compare analysis (percents) but it is harder to compare INGREDIENTS, yet very necessary. It is just like making something. If you use poor ingredients in a cake, what kind of cake are you going to get?

One thing to look at when comparing mineral is particle size.
Better mineral has the same particle size so it doesn't sift out in layers. This is a common problem in cheaper mineral. If the lighter particles come to the top and the heavier go to the bottom and a cow goes up to get a bite, what does she get? The lighter stuff on top; not a balance of all ingredients. Believe me, particle size AND ingredients are EVERYTHING.

Does your mineral clump when it gets wet? Does it contain grain or grain by-products? That will cheapen mineral a bunch by cost per bag, but who wants to pay mineral price for grain? Adding grain is the most common way to cheapen up the price of mineral. But it doesn't do the cattle any good and it clumps and sours when it gets wet. You wind up fishing it out and throwing it or all the mineral in the tub away. That costs too.

Not saying this is happening to you, I am just mentioning what CAN happen. Our mineral is all the same particle size and weather doesn't hurt it. A lot goes into making it; like it takes a lot longer to load a railroad car for Vigortone than for other companies, because their quality control is so stringent.

I guess, bottom line, I wouldn't be afraid to put the performance of our mineral up against any. Cattle perform to the best their abilty on our mineral. Performance counts.

This has been an interesting discussion. I hope it was informational to all. There is a lot of misconceptions out there about mineral that hopefully, I can help educate on.

I always say if it helps one person it was worth it.
 
It is relatively all the same size particles, when you dump it outta the bag, there's not any dust to speak of. it doesn't clump and get hard when it rains, and it doesn't blow away when the wind blows. If we have a really hard rain, and there's not alot left in the feeder, I will go out and drag it all back out in the middle of the feeder, but it's just wet, not stuck together. I won't put our mineral on top of wet mineral, I wait until it drys and then put more in, or wait until it's almost all gone to put more out.
 
I always enjoy the discussions about minerals. We've all heard forever that you need a "good mineral program" but seldom is that phrase explained except by mineral sales people who have a product to sell. No offense meant FH...I enjoy your posts a lot. You are a wealth of good information. I have fed Moorman's mineral for several years and, yes, it is expensive. In the summer I use a medicated mineral and it also has a fly control additive. Flies can be a big problem here in July and August but I'm not so sure the mineral additive helps with the flies. I seldom have any of the problems discussed here now and then, ie, pinkeye, hoof rot or rough hair that won't shed in the spring so I feel like I'm doing something right. I know of no Vigortone sales folks in this area and have inquired on their website but never received a response. A comparison of these two brands would be interesting. I asked my Moorman's dealer about the difference and he told me both were good but cattle would eat more of the Vigortone and, thus, cost more. I was complaining about the cost of his mineral as it will be over $25 per cow per summer with the two additives. I probably sound poorly informed but I've always wondered just what is a "good mineral program"?
 

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