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Faster Horses

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Moormans has been a good mineral, but I'm not sure if Moormans is the same anymore. Moormans was owned by ADM, which I'm not fond of, because of them competing with us for the protein dollar.

Where is your mineral made? In our country you can't buy Moormans mineral anymore. It has a different name and is made somewhere else.

I can understand them saying cattle eat more Vigortone which makes it higher...hahahaha...that is because theirs is a lot higher per bag. But Moormans has been Vigortones biggest competitor because it was such a good product in the past, even though it was higher priced.

Cattle need to eat mineral before it can do them any good. Bags sitting in the shed doesn't help cattle much. :wink:

OK, a good mineral program can keep your cattle healthy in just about every way. If you are feeding mineral year-round and free-choice and still having problems like cleaning, hoof rot, pink-eye, pneumonia, scours, ringworm, rough hair, red on the shoulders, your mineral isn't doing what it should. With the right mineral program you should see basically NONE of what I just posted and you should have seen an increase in weaning weights, better conception rates and more calves born in the first heat cycle. Your cattle should carry better condition on the same feed because of the yeast culture in the mineral helping the rumen to work better. Be sure to see that your mineral has yeast culture, if it doesn't don't buy it. (I am serious about this...)

$25/per head for the summer? I would say that is too high. We sell an IGR fly control mineral that works well. How you tell if the fly mineral is working is to see if your cattle still bunch up during the day. If they don't bunch up, the fly control is working. We will never get rid of ALL the flies. It just isn't going to happen. But it isn't an economic loss until the cattle bunch and quit grazing. If we can keep the fly load down, the cattle will keep grazing and gaining weight. One of the biggest mistakes made with fly contol in the mineral is not putting it out early enough in the spring and not leaving it out long enough in the fall.

IGR (Insect Growth Regulator) causes the eggs to hatch prematurely. They can't fly so they die. Horn flies can fly 1/2 mile to the host animal.
So it is best if you are not within 1/2 mile of neighboring cattle and get their flies. Even so, in two weeks you will see less flies anyway. Just try to get the fly control mineral out soon enough in the spring so that you are ahead of the flies, not behind them. Leaving it out later in the fall, causes much less of a carry-over so there are less flies to start with in the spring.

We have done a workup for yearling people and the IGR in the mineral is cheaper and more effective than fly tags.

As for the medication, why are they having you use that during the summer? I assume it is CTC. Our recommendation is to use it two weeks prior to calving and at least until you turn the bulls out. There really isn't any need to use it all summer, unless you have a problem I'm not familiar with. CTC really cleans up secondary infections after calving and is good for the baby calves too. Keeps runny noses and sniffles to a minimum. They eat it real well. Since we started using the CTC, very seldom do we have to cull a 2 or 3 year old for not breeding back. It is a truely awesome product and you only need to use it for a window of time.

I hope this helps!
 
Faster Horses, Thanks very much for your most helpful response. I do appreciate your effort. I really have had very few of the problems you listed so something must be working. Yes, the medication is CTC. I may be using it for too long a time but have had little trouble with hoof rot and pinkeye has been minimal. I will check on the yeast culture. Sure do appreciate your explanation....I seem to learn something new just about every day!
 
If I'm not mistaken, I think the MG that we are using is made by Moorman's. Daggumit, we went out after dark , after Lil Lilly's play to let her feed and forgot to grab a tag. Uhgggg leave my head at home if it wasn't tied on.
 
I have went thru 75 bags since the first of january it figured out to 3 oz. per head per day we have a couple ton coming on tuesday.I have always had troubles with cows cleaning we've had a 100 calves so far and not one that did'nt clean.We have had 4 calves get a little loose I gave them one scour tablet and the next day they were fine.That bottle of Nuflor has yet to be opened same as the bottle of LA 200.This has been my easiest calveing season in 10 years.The only thing I have really changed is my mineral program and I left my cows at the other place to calve pretty much on their own.I have 50 yet to calve and they get checked once a day when I feed.I have lost 1 calf so far he got stepped on.I lost a cow 2 days ago that got on her back she had calved the day before so I have a bottle calf now (something I never had before as we always lost calves to scours) The cattle are in such good health they make the whole job easy.I feed cows tag calves and go find something else to do being I dont have to spend my day doctoring sick calves.I give the credit to Vigortone mineral but more should go to Faster Horses because without her knowledge and experiance's I would still be fighting the old problems.
 
Wonderful, Denny, your consumption is right on target.

Thanks for your kind words, as well. My only reason for trying to inform folks about mineral is to help make ranching more fun. It isn't much fun when you are doctoring sick cattle. We know, we doctored constantly. Went from doctoring almost 100% to doctoring almost 0. The mineral made that much difference. So, as I say, if what I post helps one person, it was worth it.

There is alot of misconception about mineral and if I can explain something I am glad to. I wish someone had done that for us when we
had all our problems.

And to Red Barn Angus: if what you are doing is working, I wouldn't change a thing. If it's not broke, don't fix it. Sounds like you are on top of things. Good for you.
 
Same story here Denny: We used to fight scours on wet years but since we have been on a good custom mixed mineral program we have nearly none and the ones we treat respond wonderfully.
 
Faster Horses: I think you should do a little armtwisting and get BMR to take on a Vigortone dealership...........might keep him outta trouble if he was on the road delivering bags! It would be nice to have Vigortone look at the Canadian market......lots of cows up here too!
 
There ya go we'd have the province blanketed in vigortone and B.S.-I'll have to get south and get some to try-maybe I can convince Arvid to make a milk run north lol.
 
Take a look at the phos to cal ratio and let me know. Then, hopefully, we can figure something out.

IMrs. Bailingwire here, enjoying this discussion. I have a tag "in hand" and will post ingredients for your comments .........just wondering what should the phos to cal ratio be? Should salt be the same ratio as the calcium and phos?

The calves love this mineral. It stands up well when wet. Doesn't sour. And I have never noticed irregular particles. Smells good enough to put on your cereal. We don't have complaints about the mineral but are taking a look at the tag. A little education can never hurt.
Click to expand...
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
Lily I don't sell mineral but price per bag of mineral doesn't mean a darn thing. Straw is chaep per pound then hay but what do your cows get from it.
Click to expand...

It means alot with cash flow. Some minerals are overpriced for what you get.


Here we use a very good mineral program. However we know of a neighbor that doesn't feed mineral, barley cakes, does the bare minimum and had whooping big calves last fall and the ole girls basically calved themselves out. He's the one out of us making money and his cows are doing their job. Seems to me each generation of ranchers are expecting less from their cows and having a lot more expense against the profit margin.
 
Problem is, no one knows the whole story that goes on "at the neighbors."

The mineral story is huge. Lots of factors to consider. How many calves did they lose? How many did they treat? How old are their cows when they turn up dry? How many calves are born in the first heat cycle? How old are the calves when he sells them.

I can tell you for sure, we would NEVER try ranching without feeding mineral. Been there, done that, it turned into a WRECK and we didn't know what happened.

If you don't want to feed mineral, by all means, don't.
For the rest of you, it has been proven in many areas that mineral
balances out your feeding program. Helps your cows live longer and carry better condition, and stay in the best of health. Texas Ranch to Rail program has done a complete study of calves that were fed mineral before they hit the feedlot and ones that were not fed mineral. I have the results and it is pretty amazing. Lots more pulls for sickness out of the calves that had no mineral. More money made with the ones that had been fed mineral. I think the day will come that you can't get as much for a calf that has not had access to mineral during the time he was on his mother, based on trials likeTexas Ranch to Rail. In fact, I will pull that sheet and post what they found.

Like I say, there is a lot of factors to take in. We have a buyer that specifies calves that are fed Vigortone because he knows they aren't going
to get sick for the feeder. He has been here buying calves since 1998.

Someone told me this summer that the calves that sold on Northern Video Auction brought more money if they were on a Vigortone mineral program. I didn't see the videoed cattle sell, but this was reported to us by more than one person.

Like I say, to each his own. I merely want to help those who want to be helped. The mineral you use doesn't have to be Vigortone, but it needs to be a good one. I have tried to help people to know what to look for in other brands in order to get what does the most good. I trust this company and I know their products. I get nothing for the information I post here except the satisfaction of knowing I was able to make life easier for the people intrested in solving problems they may have.

Saying 'what the neighbor does' doesn't cut much ice with me. Only you know the whole story of what goes on with YOUR own cattle. Same with your neighbor.
 
We neighbor pretty close so don't think to much slipping by me lol. You have to realize though that even though 'Vigartone' is a great product and I'm sure it worked well for you. There is a whole cattle industry in Canada that has prospered without it. I didn't start this thread to get in a mineral debate all I'm saying is -this is a high producing-well managed herd that doesn't feed mineral of any kind-to each his own but I'll have to admit it made me ponder the several thousand we spend each year on it. Like I said we've ranched next to each other for 75 years and I've never seen their cattle in bad health.
 
CattleRMe said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
Lily I don't sell mineral but price per bag of mineral doesn't mean a darn thing. Straw is chaep per pound then hay but what do your cows get from it.
Click to expand...

It means alot with cash flow. Some minerals are overpriced for what you get.


Here we use a very good mineral program. However we know of a neighbor that doesn't feed mineral, barley cakes, does the bare minimum and had whooping big calves last fall and the ole girls basically calved themselves out. He's the one out of us making money and his cows are doing their job. Seems to me each generation of ranchers are expecting less from their cows and having a lot more expense against the profit margin.
Click to expand...


CattleRme, You are right but the "Cheaper per bag" mineral still could be the most expensive.
 
Faster Horses, so what should the ratio consist of. equal parts calcium to phos and salt (12%) I have a mineral tag in hand and am wondering how this mineral stands against other minerals? Processed grain is the 4th ingredient......we are not happy at finding that on the label. So we have reached the debate stage and would be happy for a some understanding of the ratios. What does a GOOD mineral contain? tks
 
Funny, that you posted this, baling wire. I was just looking at a tag from CHS nutrition. Process grain byproducts are the THIRD thing on the list of ingredients.

Good for you for checking it out. That's what I am trying to do here, make folks aware of what they are using. Heck, we never used to read labels either and that's what the feed companies are counting on.

The NRC and nutritionists that I use recommend at least 2 to 1 cal to phos. Or 3 to 1 or 4 to 1. They no longer recommend 1-1 and NEVER higher phos than cal. Remember the old 15-12 formula? Some places still sell that outdated formula. They just aren't on top of things and aren't helping the producer by offering that blend.

S.S.A.P. has compiled conversations about mineral from ranchers.net on a website. I just saw the address but don't know where I put it. You might PM her and ask for that address. It covers just about everything.

Our basic 32SPL is about 2-1 cal to phos. We have another product that is 3V4 and it is 23% calcium and 6% phos. NRC keeps dropping the phos requirement of cattle and in feedlots many aren't feeding any phos at all.
Yeast culture is very necessary and one of the main reasons to feed mineral as it helps the cow get more out of everything she eats becuase of enhanced rumen function. Good mineral should provide Vitamin E. It's expensive and lots of companies leave it out. Check your source of copper. Copper sulfate is easier broken down by the cow and is a good source of copper. Same with copper chloride. Copper Oxide is undesirable as a source of copper.

Be sure to check out particle size. Put some in a glass jar and shake it and see what happens. There should be very little, if any, sifting of ingredients. Mineral should smell good and should not contain grain or protein.

Like I say, you can get a lot of information off S.S.A.P.'s website. She kept it there to help people.

I hope this answered your question. Let me know if I can be of further assistance.
 

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