Feds Confiscate Cattle For Turtles

[Mike]

On Saturday, hundreds of federal officials, aided by helicopters, low flying aircraft and hired cowboys, began rounding up Bundy's cattle in northeastern Clark County.

The feds say the move is about enforcing the law and protecting the endangered desert tortoise, but the Bundy family says the spat represents a showdown between big government and American farmers.

"We've had enough, we're going to take our land back, we're done," said Bundy's wife, Carol Bundy, adding that the rally was held "to show that we are not standing alone. People are getting tired of the federal government having unlimited power."

More than 100 supporters violated a crudely taped off "First Amendment Area" to rally in support of the Bundy family, erecting two flagpoles with the words "We the People" attached, above a flag which read, "Liberty Freedom For God We Stand". The first amendment area stood empty, with one sign nearby declaring, "1st Amendment is not an area."

"I grew up on this ranch. This is what we knew," said Margaret Houston, Cliven Bundy's younger sister. "It's got nothing to do with the cattle and the tortoises. It's about taking our rights — power — and it's wrong."

"Right now it looks like the movie Red Dawn, said, Ryan Bundy. "Right now we've got 200 plus federal agents up there in a military compound that they have put together and they've got snipers….everybody's armed, and they've been monitoring our ranch with high-tech surveillance equipment….it was never about the grazing fees, it's about control."

Ranch manager Derrel Spencer warned that a "revolution" was brewing unless a solution could be found to settle the dispute.

As we reported yesterday in an article that has already garnered over 4300 comments, Bundy's son Dave Bundy was arrested on Sunday by BLM officials after refusing to follow a dispersal order as he filmed cattle from a state highway. According to Dave's brother Ryan Bundy, snipers had guns trained on them throughout the incident. Feds claimed Dave Bundy had violated the ludicrous "First Amendment Area," outside of which free speech is banned.

The Bundy family posted still images of snipers who trained guns on them in the video below.



After his son's arrest, Cliven Bundy posted a statement on his website which read, "They have my cattle and now they have one of my boys. Range War begins tomorrow."

The Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department asserts that the actions against Bundy are a "federal operation," while the Nevada Cattlemen's Association told ABC News, "This has gotten way out of hand," while refusing to become involved.

 

[Faster horses]

Shades of Wayne Hage!!! This is NOT the first time this has happened. Only
with Wayne, it was with the Forest Service and the BLM. Also in Nevada.

Hage prevailed and the judge ruled in his favor.

It was pretty hot news around the ranching country starting back
in 1991. The Hage family was harassed badly by BLM/Forest Service personnel.
Wayne Hage and his wife both passed away before the matter made it to court.
Wayne Hage wrote a book about it, I think it was called "Range War."

This is interesting. http://nj.npri.org/nj98/04/hage.htm


Wayne N. Hage, son of E. Wayne Hage, called the judge's ruling a landmark decision.

"I am pleased to announce for the ranchers of the Western states that it has been proven that a permit is not simply a revocable privilege, but rather there is a property interest in the permit for the purpose of the Due Process Clause, both procedural and substantive," he said in a statement. "This is important because it will safeguard ranchers' rights and historical grazing practices."

http://elkodaily.com/news/local/judge-sides-with-ranch-family/article_3920d17a-c8d5-11e2-b69c-001a4bcf887a.html

I think Leanin' H is familiar with this story and we used to have a member
here called "Ranchy" or something similar and she also talked about what happened to the Hage Family.
I think the whole thing negatively affected their family too.

That was back in 2007. Things have changed. Would a judge rule the same way today????

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

He has quit paying permit fees since 1993, claiming his Morman ancestors had worked the land since 1880's. Might hold water if he had never payed fees but he recognized the authority of the BLM until he changed his mind.

But I think the cattle and desert Turtle could live together if managed and keep out the "recreationists" / ATVers and dirt bikers.

 

[Faster horses]

He has quit paying permit fees since 1993, claiming his Morman ancestors had worked the land since 1880's. Might hold water if he had never payed fees but he recognized the authority of the BLM until he changed his mind.

But I think the cattle and desert Turtle could live together if managed and keep out the "recreationists" / ATVers and dirt bikers.

I think getting rid of the ATVers and dirt bikers is part of it too.
But they have to get rid of the ranchers first. There would be too much
of an uproar to take the RV people first. Too many would notice.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

He has quit paying permit fees since 1993, claiming his Morman ancestors had worked the land since 1880's. Might hold water if he had never payed fees but he recognized the authority of the BLM until he changed his mind.

But I think the cattle and desert Turtle could live together if managed and keep out the "recreationists" / ATVers and dirt bikers.

I think getting rid of the ATVers and dirt bikers is part of it too.
But they have to get rid of the ranchers first. There would be too much
of an uproar to take the RV people first. Too many would notice.

"The Center for Biological Diversity, an environmental group, said the federal action was long overdue.

"Despite having no legal right to do so, cattle from Bundy's ranch have continued to graze throughout the Gold Butte area, competing with tortoises for food, hindering the ability of plants to recover from extensive wildfires, trampling rare plants, damaging ancient American Indian cultural sites and threatening the safety of recreationists," Rob Mrowka, a spokesman for the group, said in a statement."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/07/feds-move-in-on-nevada-rancher-herd-over-illegal-grazing/

 

[Faster horses]

He has quit paying permit fees since 1993, claiming his Morman ancestors had worked the land since 1880's. Might hold water if he had never payed fees but he recognized the authority of the BLM until he changed his mind.

But I think the cattle and desert Turtle could live together if managed and keep out the "recreationists" / ATVers and dirt bikers.

I think getting rid of the ATVers and dirt bikers is part of it too.
But they have to get rid of the ranchers first. There would be too much
of an uproar to take the RV people first. Too many would notice.

"The Center for Biological Diversity, an environmental group, said the federal action was long overdue.

"Despite having no legal right to do so, cattle from Bundy's ranch have continued to graze throughout the Gold Butte area, competing with tortoises for food, hindering the ability of plants to recover from extensive wildfires, trampling rare plants, damaging ancient American Indian cultural sites and threatening the safety of recreationists," Rob Mrowka, a spokesman for the group, said in a statement."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/07/feds-move-in-on-nevada-rancher-herd-over-illegal-grazing/

Oh yeah, they always come up with something, don't they? Darn cows.
If it wasn't a turtle it would be something else. It's not about thecattle/ turtles, it's about POWER and CONTROL.

I guess if the rancher didn't pay his lease for a long time, then he should lose his grazing rights. But why did they wait so long to do something about it? I smell a rat here.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

I think getting rid of the ATVers and dirt bikers is part of it too.
But they have to get rid of the ranchers first. There would be too much
of an uproar to take the RV people first. Too many would notice.

"The Center for Biological Diversity, an environmental group, said the federal action was long overdue.

"Despite having no legal right to do so, cattle from Bundy's ranch have continued to graze throughout the Gold Butte area, competing with tortoises for food, hindering the ability of plants to recover from extensive wildfires, trampling rare plants, damaging ancient American Indian cultural sites and threatening the safety of recreationists," Rob Mrowka, a spokesman for the group, said in a statement."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/07/feds-move-in-on-nevada-rancher-herd-over-illegal-grazing/

Oh yeah, they always come up with something, don't they? Darn cows.
If it wasn't a turtle it would be something else. It's not about thecattle/ turtles, it's about POWER and CONTROL.

I guess if the rancher didn't pay his lease for a long time, then he should lose his grazing rights. But why did they wait so long to do something about it? I smell a rat here.

Ya NO doubt there is more to the story on both sides. :?

 

[leanin' H]

The center for biological diversity is a radical wackjob group. If they are against it then I am for it. Mr. Bundy told the federal government to go to hell. He has giant cahones and now we shall see what the courts say. I hope he wins but doubt he will. Did I mention the biological diversity folks are a much larger problem than mr. Bundy? Yeah, I hate them.

Ho55 has a lot more info than I do about this deal. Maybe he will chime in.

 

[Ho55]

Ill report all I've been told on this deal with my meetings with Cliven and others. In 1993 they cut their permit by 50% citing the desert tortoise competing for forage with cattle. Some permitees took a buy out and sold out. Cliven stayed and refused to take their offer. He says it was about sixty thousand dollars. By 1998 they had completely closed down the Gold Butte area to livestock grazing. Still Cliven continued to graze. Even paying the county of Clark in which he resides in, in Nevada. So those that claim he never paid are simply mistaken. Of coarse he didn't pay the BLM because they were not sending him a grazing bill, they closed the area to grazing. A side note here: look up tortoise euthinization. They have run out of money to keep tending these turtles they are raising. So they plan on killing all these endangered tortoises they have raised. I believe this is much more to do with a dysfunctional government than aRancher. I don't like the fact that this issue has divided ranchers against ranchers. The sad truth is the government is in a sad state. I believe Cliven could have handled things differently and he will admit to that as well. But ask yourselves, would you sell your lively hood out because of a turtle and some environmental groups pressure on the BLM? I for one would not and when they list this Sage Hen as endangered, I personally believe a lot of us will have to do as Cliven has done and just say enough is enough. I have a love of these ranges, and a love for my cattle, family and my heritage. (Not in that order) I have a family to feed. And I will fight to feed them. Anyway if you have any questions let me know. I'm knee deep in this deal. Especially my wife and her family. On other note.. I hate when people say we run our cattle on these ranges so cheaply. While our fees may seem rather cheap every year, I assure it is very expensive to purchase these grazing rights. Very expensive.

 

[iwannabeacowboy]

Ill report all I've been told on this deal with my meetings with Cliven and others. In 1993 they cut their permit by 50% citing the desert tortoise competing for forage with cattle. Some permitees took a buy out and sold out. Cliven stayed and refused to take their offer. He says it was about sixty thousand dollars. By 1998 they had completely closed down the Gold Butte area to livestock grazing. Still Cliven continued to graze. Even paying the county of Clark in which he resides in, in Nevada. So those that claim he never paid are simply mistaken. Of coarse he didn't pay the BLM because they were not sending him a grazing bill, they closed the area to grazing. A side note here: look up tortoise euthinization. They have run out of money to keep tending these turtles they are raising. So they plan on killing all these endangered tortoises they have raised. I believe this is much more to do with a dysfunctional government than aRancher. I don't like the fact that this issue has divided ranchers against ranchers. The sad truth is the government is in a sad state. I believe Cliven could have handled things differently and he will admit to that as well. But ask yourselves, would you sell your lively hood out because of a turtle and some environmental groups pressure on the BLM? I for one would not and when they list this Sage Hen as endangered, I personally believe a lot of us will have to do as Cliven has done and just say enough is enough. I have a love of these ranges, and a love for my cattle, family and my heritage. (Not in that order) I have a family to feed. And I will fight to feed them. Anyway if you have any questions let me know. I'm knee deep in this deal. Especially my wife and her family. On other note.. I hate when people say we run our cattle on these ranges so cheaply. While our fees may seem rather cheap every year, I assure it is very expensive to purchase these grazing rights. Very expensive.

Too bad there is not a single AP writer interested enough to investigate and report on the details.

If you can state, what would he have done differently? I don't see giving up a purchased grazing right for a BS environmental argument as a good thing. I think more people need to stand their ground for property rights everywhere. It is core to our success.

 

[Ho55]

The only thing I would have done differently. I would have kept my cattle numbers in line with my preemptive grazing right. And I'd like to mention that a lot of this has to do with states sovereignty. Cliven doesn't not claim he owns this ground. Nevada does. All he claims is the right to the forage and his water.

 

[iwannabeacowboy]

Thanks for the clarification of what you meant by how he could have acted differently. The property I was speaking of, is the purchased rights to grazing- I should have been more clear.

 

[Ho55]

Reports coming in tonight. The BLM have ran a lot of cattle to death with their helicopters. Family members being tazed and beaten. Not be arrested either. Lovely isn't it?

 

[iwannabeacowboy]

Someone should get photos of the dead cattle- two can play public sympathy. A fuzzy dead calf is a lot more tear jerking than a turtle.


Don't need the media. Just put it on facebook or twitter and get as many people to repost as you can- it'll take off pretty quick. Governments around the world have been disrupted by such- you can learn a lot from the SOB's in office right now.

 

[leanin' H]

Someone should get photos of the dead cattle- two can play public sympathy. A fuzzy dead calf is a lot more tear jerking than a turtle.


Don't need the media. Just put it on facebook or twitter and get as many people to repost as you can- it'll take off pretty quick. Governments around the world have been disrupted by such- you can learn a lot from the SOB's in office right now.

I used to think that. But I really think a large part of the public is so disconnected and biased they would applaud dead cattle. :???: The times in which we live are plumb crazy!

 

[Ho55]

That's why they are getting tazed and roughed up. Trying to get some photos. This deal is getting out of hand. I hope no one gets killed. It seems to be escalating.

 

[iwannabeacowboy]

Someone should get photos of the dead cattle- two can play public sympathy. A fuzzy dead calf is a lot more tear jerking than a turtle.


Don't need the media. Just put it on facebook or twitter and get as many people to repost as you can- it'll take off pretty quick. Governments around the world have been disrupted by such- you can learn a lot from the SOB's in office right now.

I used to think that. But I really think a large part of the public is so disconnected and biased they would applaud dead cattle. :???: The times in which we live are plumb crazy!

LH, I really don't think so. The general public isn't represented in what we are bombarded with every day. Many are biased, but truth has a way of breaking through. At some point, truth will smack each of us in the face. That is why there is such a difference between the beliefs of the youth and that of the elderly. Look at how public opinion has changed with Zerocare. Giving up isn't the answer. We need grit more now than ever, and when you stand with grit/passion, people will at least take a look.

 

[leanin' H]

Someone should get photos of the dead cattle- two can play public sympathy. A fuzzy dead calf is a lot more tear jerking than a turtle.


Don't need the media. Just put it on facebook or twitter and get as many people to repost as you can- it'll take off pretty quick. Governments around the world have been disrupted by such- you can learn a lot from the SOB's in office right now.

I used to think that. But I really think a large part of the public is so disconnected and biased they would applaud dead cattle. :???: The times in which we live are plumb crazy!

LH, I really don't think so. The general public isn't represented in what we are bombarded with every day. Many are biased, but truth has a way of breaking through. At some point, truth will smack each of us in the face. That is why there is such a difference between the beliefs of the youth and that of the elderly. Look at how public opinion has changed with Zerocare. Giving up isn't the answer. We need grit more now than ever, and when you stand with grit/passion, people will at least take a look.

I understand we need to be passionate and fight for our rights. I do that as often as I can. I try and educate people about ranching, about grazing and the merits of beef. I am BQA certified and participate at the county and state levels in representing ranchers. Then I see an article in the Salt Lake Tribune (Utah isn't exactly a liberal stronghold remember) on this subject. If you want to see the mindset in a western state's capitol city just read the comments to the story! :? Utah was founded by strong, independent, ranchers and miners and timber folks. Read the comments and tell me those people care at all about the rancher. They have no dog in this fight and yet they already know the rancher is a criminal and would love to see him in prison or worse. They are narrow minded and poisoned by environmental propaganda. I will always fight against biased, ignorance. But I truly feel some people aren't worth arguing with or fighting for. Til they starve some, til they have their world turned upside down, til massive amounts of people struggle to survive I cannot see them changing their mindset. Sad but true.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/57792018-90/utah-cattle-county-blm.html.csp

 

[iwannabeacowboy]

I used to think that. But I really think a large part of the public is so disconnected and biased they would applaud dead cattle. :???: The times in which we live are plumb crazy!

LH, I really don't think so. The general public isn't represented in what we are bombarded with every day. Many are biased, but truth has a way of breaking through. At some point, truth will smack each of us in the face. That is why there is such a difference between the beliefs of the youth and that of the elderly. Look at how public opinion has changed with Zerocare. Giving up isn't the answer. We need grit more now than ever, and when you stand with grit/passion, people will at least take a look.

I understand we need to be passionate and fight for our rights. I do that as often as I can. I try and educate people about ranching, about grazing and the merits of beef. I am BQA certified and participate at the county and state levels in representing ranchers. Then I see an article in the Salt Lake Tribune (Utah isn't exactly a liberal stronghold remember) on this subject. If you want to see the mindset in a western state's capitol city just read the comments to the story! :? Utah was founded by strong, independent, ranchers and miners and timber folks. Read the comments and tell me those people care at all about the rancher. They have no dog in this fight and yet they already know the rancher is a criminal and would love to see him in prison or worse. They are narrow minded and poisoned by environmental propaganda. I will always fight against biased, ignorance. But I truly feel some people aren't worth arguing with or fighting for. Til they starve some, til they have their world turned upside down, til massive amounts of people struggle to survive I cannot see them changing their mindset. Sad but true.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/57792018-90/utah-cattle-county-blm.html.csp

I agree, going hungry would be the quickest and most effective way to get their attention- just like paying thousands more for health insurance. Some won't change until that happens. Those with a brain may start to turn before.

The reason I don't think we are lost forever is two fold. One, I believe that God can react in ways beyond our comprehension if it is His plan. Two, it is human nature for society to swing. When the pain becomes too much, reality sets in and the public swings away from the cause of pain. I just hope that enough are feeling the current pain and don't need further.

 

[Faster horses]

Reports coming in tonight. The BLM have ran a lot of cattle to death with their helicopters. Family members being tazed and beaten. Not be arrested either. Lovely isn't it?

Do people that engage in these horrific acts have no conscience?