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Feed from the ethanol plants

katrina said:
Do you believe everything you read???

No but my daughter was reserching Ethanol for a community she was working for and with out the government subsidies it wasn't viable and it used alot of fresh water.

What do you figure your net gain in energy for growing sunflowers and crushing them is to just buying diesel?
 
There was another study that just came out that disputes the results on this one a bit... Wish I could find it... One problem with one of the earlier studies is they based the cost of production on corn grown under irrigation and the yields were low at the same time... There was a bit of bias discovered in the earlier one was well, again, wish I could find the articles.

The more recent one I am talking about takes into account that you have to harvest grain to feed it to animals anyways and uses the byproducts produced by ethanol production as part of the equation for figuring out efficiency... I'll see if I can find the article laying around here somewhere, but it looks like a tornado blew through my office.
 
It is hard to get the straight goods because so many studies are what the researcher makes them. This fellow seemed to be pushing Solar and wind so it may have been a bit biased . Without asking one does not know. I think it is very interesting that katrina is making their own Bio diesel. I was just wondering if all the costs and benefits were figured.
 
Fresh water???????????? For what????? All you do is squeeze the seeds, the oil runs out... Strain it,add a little this and a little that. And wha laaa..
Kiss my big fat hinney you rag heads...........
Net gain....... It's all net gain.......YOu can make your own biodiesel for less than $5.000 start up.....
 
Team1roper said:
Thanks again
now the trick is find where I can buy direct instead of through a reseller

If you find some let me know,you oughta call lyssy & Ekols in poth,compare it to cotton seed meal.............good luck
 
There are a lot more facts here.
http://www.ethanol.org/talkingpoints.html
(take note of who the guy worked for, that came up with the negative numbers!) :roll:

Claims that Ethanol has a Negative Energy Balance are Outrageous
Sioux Falls, SD (July 19, 2005) – The American Coalition for Ethanol (ACE) today set the record straight on the allegation that ethanol has a negative energy balance.
"That claim is just outrageous," said Ron Lamberty, ACE Vice President / Market Development. "The bottom line is that it takes 35,000 BTUs of energy to turn a bushel of corn into a gallon of ethanol, and that gallon of ethanol contains at least 77,000 BTUs. What kind of math is being used to turn this number into a negative?"

Professors David Pimentel of Cornell University and Tad Patzek of the University of California, Berkeley are claiming that it takes more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than the ethanol offers as a motor fuel.
"This new study by Pimentel and Patzek is just the latest regurgitation of Pimentel's research from 1979. It is an amazing routine of mathematical gymnastics to prove a political point, one that is no longer true," Lamberty said. "Twenty years ago their information may have been correct, but today it couldn't be more wrong. Pimentel should be taking credit for having helped create today's truly efficient ethanol production process, not using old numbers to shoot it down."

Brian Jennings, ACE Executive Vice President, added: "Any objective analysis of ethanol's energy balance equation done in the last 20 years will verify that ethanol contains much more energy than what is used to produce it. The re-release of Pimentel's antiquated study is a misleading effort by foreign oil apologists to derail important ethanol legislation working its way through Congress."

Some insight into Patzek's bias against ethanol can be found on his own website: http://petroleum.berkeley.edu/patzek/index.htm . Patzek spent nearly a decade working for Shell Oil Company as a researcher, consultant, and expert witness. He is the founder and current director of the UC Oil Consortium, an organization funded mainly by the oil industry to the tune of $60,000-120,000 per year, per company.
"Tad Patzek is not a disinterested third party in this debate. It shouldn't be shocking that someone with such a background in the oil industry would come out opposed to ethanol, a viable alternative to oil," Lamberty said.

Scientific studies have overwhelmingly found ethanol's energy balance to be positive, many of which can be viewed online at www.ethanol.org/ethanolresearch.html . The U.S. Department of Agriculture's most recent numbers indicate that the corn-to-ethanol process provides a net energy gain of at least 67 percent.
In a continuing effort to refute the perpetuation of these myths regarding ethanol, Hosein Shapouri – USDA economist and leading authority on ethanol's energy balance – will give a special presentation on this topic at next month's ACE Ethanol Conference & Trade Show. His presentation will take place on August 18 at the Qwest Center in Omaha, Nebraska, beginning at 9:30 am .

Ethanol Fast Facts:
Ethanol is a clean-burning, high-octane fuel produced from renewable resources like corn.
A blend of 10% ethanol, 90% gasoline (called E10) can be used in any make or model of vehicle.
The U.S. has 87 ethanol plants, about half of which are owned by farmers and local investors.
Ethanol offers superior vehicle performance – the Indy Racing League will begin using it next year.
It takes only 35,000 BTUs of energy to produce ethanol that contains at least 77,000 BTUs of energy.
 
Fedup,
Good post.......It is beyond me why everyone wants to give their dollars to the middle east rather than the american farmer. You mark my words, once we produce our own biofuel the govermant will come in and start taxing and regulating the process........ It's simple.... Evan if you use half biodiesel and diesel it will cut your fuel bill in half.....
HELLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOO
 
katrina said:
Fresh water???????????? For what????? All you do is squeeze the seeds, the oil runs out... Strain it,add a little this and a little that. And wha laaa..
Kiss my big fat hinney you rag heads...........
Net gain....... It's all net gain.......YOu can make your own biodiesel for less than $5.000 start up.....


Katrina we are talking about more then one thing. Teamroper was talking Bio deisel and others were talking ethanol. I said Ehtanol uses water. I asked you what it cost for your deisel.

You could have sold the sun flowers. It cost to grow them. So it's not free. That's waht i was asking what it cost to make it.

Can you run you tractor on sunflower oil to do the farming it takes to grow the crop and have a surpluss of fuel?
 
Okay, we are talking biodiesel. You are talking ethenol, they're differant. We can raise our own sunflowers to make our fuel and be money ahead. What is sunflowers now?? I would guess less than $9.00 bucks a hundred right now. My hubby is not here now so I can't ask how much oil per bushel, he knows... We have found that wether it is raising beef or fuel, you can make more money doing it yourself than haveing or depending on someone else to do it for you. That's the bottom line...
 
[""The use of vegetable oils for engine fuels may seem insignificant today. But such oils may become in the course of time as important as the petroleum and coal tar products of the present time"]
Rudolph Diesel, 1912

Now there was a man who could see the future!
Everything takes time. The bad raps these fuels are getting now is based on old information & research. Things are changing all the time & we have to do the same. I am amazed when I think of the people who don't think twice about sending their money to Iraq -Iran etc to buy their products but whine about possibly losing two tenths of a mile per gallon with ethanol! What will it take to put things into perspective for these people! I hope they wake up soon!

Thanks for doing your part to lessen our dependence on these people katrina!
 

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