katrina
Well-known member
WB said:
What's the genetic defect?
GDAR Gameday 449
- Thread starter WB
- Start date
What's the genetic defect?
WB
Well-known member
Katrina: Until there is a test for Fcs we don't know for sure any lineage of Bon View Bando 598 is clean since it has be determined that he is a carrier. I have been in the cattle business long enough to know that unecessary chance taking is better left to someone with more time and money than I have.
katrina
Well-known member
WB said:
So where is the bando breeding in Connealy Right Answer 746 reg. # 15832750?
Sitz Traveler 8180
S A V Final Answer 0035
S A V Emulous 8145
Hyline Right Time 338
Happy Dell of Conanga 262
Happy Daze of Conanga 6260
Justin
Well-known member
katrina said:
yes
http://www.angus.org/Animal/EpdPedDtl.aspx?aid=FAAAAF68u5wR9pQTa7W6lEyL%2bLJFQbCal6iKG4Hf0INInDUP&time=LAAAAP%2b8hdUL1pDMv18fXXyzgDojrff6zQAYGGqAy26910BFRw%2bmHwYp%2bADMvBWsubkXPQ%3d%3d
katrina
Well-known member
Okay.... I didn't go back far enough...
katrina
Well-known member
What's Up???
Hay Feeder
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2008
- Messages
- 555
None of use have is get in a hissy over a calf easy bull. Many will be promoted as that and few of them will actually be on the open market throught semen sales. Most of the calves will be sold as feeders anyway.
Dylan Biggs
Well-known member
WB said:
WB, I agree. Genetic risk management is high on my priority list also.
A
Anonymous
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Dylan Biggs said:WB said:
WB, I agree. Genetic risk management is high on my priority list also.
Dylan- WB- I agree-- I have a half dozen calves on the ground now- that probably go back further than that in the pedigree to 598-- but just because of the unknown of promoting a (known) possible genetic defect- unless a test is developed to prove them free- I do not/would not feel free in selling them as seedstock.....Let the WallStreet folks screw/gamble with folks for a dime-- not me!!!! I'll eat them first...
This genetic thing brings up an interesting point as last night I was looking at the Jocko Valley Angus "Complete" Dispersal sale catalog-- 900 head-advertised as "The Angus Dispersal of 2010" -and on the back flyer of this high promotion, commotion, emotion- high dollar "seedstock" sale they mention that 75 Lots (plus their calves at side) have pedigrees giving them the potential to be carriers of AM, NH, or Both-- and that they have been UNTESTED...
Nice of them to tell you that without you having to dig it up-- BUT To me-- a true "seedstock" breeder would not be offering up these cattle to put into breed without testing when a test is available.....Just my opinion!!!
They are not only playing roulette with the buyers money- but with the breed......
No wonder so many cuss and say bad things about Bull Pimp outfits and don't trust some big seedstock outfits....
From what I see most guys just bench to bench. I'm sure the cows would make great commercial cows and most likely never have a problem calf.Most likely they will sell cheap and never raise registered seedstock anyhow. Most people who buy these registerd cows have big intentions but once reality strikes they are just cows and knowone wants to pay more than steer price for private treaty bulls. I notice on all these forums that guys with a small herd have all the answers. With my math selling feeder cattle you need to sell at least 200 a year to make a marginal living at best. In a lifetime of breeding cattle you won't change much. I'll raise cattle that I like and everyone else should also but the continued bashing of other operations is horseshit business if you ask me.Minimum break even on yearling bulls is $1400 for me most of the cost is in advertising and AI costs as well as registration papers,breeders certificates auctioneer cost food for the customers etc etc.Selling 30 bulls private treaty is a job in itself most private treaty sales take 2 or 3 hours each thats alot of time when you've got other jobs that need to be done.
Dylan Biggs
Well-known member
Denny said:
Denny no doubt there are people who like to bench and people who like to bench about people who bench, that probably won't change any time soon.
The discussion about seed stock business practices and ethics, especially in light of lethal genetic defects, IMO is topical and legitimate. Depending on how the discussion is approached it does not necessarily need to to turn into a bashing exercise.
I am sure you have opinions about business practices, regardless of the business, what is right, what is questionable and what is wrong. Since most people who post on this site are involved with the cattle business and to some extent or another the seed stock business, to me it makes sense that these issues are topics of discussion on this forum.
Just my opinion.
Northern Rancher
Well-known member
How dare you be rational Mr. Biggs lol.
WB
Well-known member
I did not mean to start a genetic problem discussion, I just wanted to explain to Hay feeder my reansons for not wanting to use a certain bull. I am a commercial producer that simply doesn't have time for inconveniences like nursing calves that can't suck on their own. Sure I do when I have to but I ask myself why make more problems than I can handle? Like most commercial producers I will never be testing for these defects so the easiest way is never bring them in. The tried and true is a lot more appealing to me than the new latest and greatest.
A
Anonymous
Guest
And WB I agree with you- and disagree with those folks who proclaim the genetic problems are only a "registered" problem- and think they can pawn off the problem cattle to the commercial breeder and it won't affect them or the breed.
I guess my feeling comes about as I see the knowledge of these defects become more prevalent amongst commercial/ranch breeders- you are seeing/hearing every dead calf found on the prairie contributed to "one of those Angus defects"- and every dink calf or low vigor calf catagorized as a Fawn Calf ..."Must of been those angus bulls we bought from Joe Blow two years ago "....
The entire breed is taking a black eye for what only amounts to a small percentage of the cattle/bloodlines-- and the sooner the tests can be developed- and used- or the pedigree potentials removed from the breeding potential- or better yet as some reputal breeders did- become hamburger- and both the commercial and purebred herds cleaned up of the defects- the better...
It bothers me that any seedstock breeder/seller outfit- be they 2,000 head or be they 30 head can put out such a high $ promotion sale of genetics--but can't take the time, effort, or cost to guarantee the animals they are selling are free of known genetic defects that a test is available for- and help stop the spread of a genetic defect in the breed- be it either the registered or commercial herds....
Just makes me wonder WHY :???:
I guess my feeling comes about as I see the knowledge of these defects become more prevalent amongst commercial/ranch breeders- you are seeing/hearing every dead calf found on the prairie contributed to "one of those Angus defects"- and every dink calf or low vigor calf catagorized as a Fawn Calf ..."Must of been those angus bulls we bought from Joe Blow two years ago "....
The entire breed is taking a black eye for what only amounts to a small percentage of the cattle/bloodlines-- and the sooner the tests can be developed- and used- or the pedigree potentials removed from the breeding potential- or better yet as some reputal breeders did- become hamburger- and both the commercial and purebred herds cleaned up of the defects- the better...
It bothers me that any seedstock breeder/seller outfit- be they 2,000 head or be they 30 head can put out such a high $ promotion sale of genetics--but can't take the time, effort, or cost to guarantee the animals they are selling are free of known genetic defects that a test is available for- and help stop the spread of a genetic defect in the breed- be it either the registered or commercial herds....
Just makes me wonder WHY :???:
While we're on the subject, one of the guys who I buy semen from said he thought the attempt to develop a test for FCS would just eventually fade away because of the relative infrequency of FCS and the fact that many/most fcs calves go on to lead normal productive lives. As a matter of fact he said he saw a heifer calf several yrs. ago that had all the symptoms of fcs and went on to become one of the best cows in the herd of quite a well known producer.
katrina
Well-known member
Oldtimer said:Dylan Biggs said:WB said:
WB, I agree. Genetic risk management is high on my priority list also.
Dylan- WB- I agree-- I have a half dozen calves on the ground now- that probably go back further than that in the pedigree to 598-- but just because of the unknown of promoting a (known) possible genetic defect- unless a test is developed to prove them free- I do not/would not feel free in selling them as seedstock.....Let the WallStreet folks screw/gamble with folks for a dime-- not me!!!! I'll eat them first...
This genetic thing brings up an interesting point as last night I was looking at the Jocko Valley Angus "Complete" Dispersal sale catalog-- 900 head-advertised as "The Angus Dispersal of 2010" -and on the back flyer of this high promotion, commotion, emotion- high dollar "seedstock" sale they mention that 75 Lots (plus their calves at side) have pedigrees giving them the potential to be carriers of AM, NH, or Both-- and that they have been UNTESTED...
Nice of them to tell you that without you having to dig it up-- BUT To me-- a true "seedstock" breeder would not be offering up these cattle to put into breed without testing when a test is available.....Just my opinion!!!
They are not only playing roulette with the buyers money- but with the breed......
No wonder so many cuss and say bad things about Bull Pimp outfits and don't trust some big seedstock outfits....
The thing is Ot we are all smarter than a average bear.. And it is our choice to buy what we want and where we want... And your yipping and yapping about genetics we are all aware of just gets old.. Give it a break.. Now I'm outta here...
I need a bath...
retty:oldblood
Well-known member
Katrina, I new all this FCS stuff back in 06 I think it was, but I to just put my head in the sand because 598 was to good of a bull to through something like that. So I kept on useing him linebreeding to him his sons and his grandsons. 95% plus of my herd goes back to 598, never used the 1680 so I missed that mess. My head was in the sand until last years calving season. Nothing will make you sicker that to go out to check calvesand to find what looks like a good calf that can't stand up and suck. MY HEAD CAME OUT OF THE SAND. So you know at one time 598 semen sold at $500 per straw, being a tightass after having a FCS calf, I desided to use up my 598 semen so I went through peds. I found 8 cows that had no 598 in them so I breed them 598. I had 2 straws left of 208 I use them on to heifer that had 598 way back, back of the reg paper figure I never get a fawn again. Guess what I got on the only two that double up 598 yep you guessed it. I wish someone like oldtime would have told me about the bulls I used, before it was to late. I have know idea why your so down on OLDTIMER he is doing everyone that reads this a favor. IF YOU THINK IT IS A LITTLE PROBLEM THAT IS GOING AWAY YOU ARE SADDLY MISTAKEN. The hardest hit areas are SD, ND, NE & western MN I have sent countless hour days weeks even most of the winter trying to find clean blood lines. I have desided that I will use no bull with PRE. INd. or 598 in them. There is a long list of bulls, longer than most people think that are carrers. If anyone whats to know more pm me.
katrina
Well-known member
That is a sad deal.... But I too have linebred 598 and have had no trouble at all.... So see there are two sides to every story.. I just get sick and tired of blowhard ot preaching on what we should do or don't.... And his holier than now attitude.... Why did you stick your head in the sand? Do you think if someone would of asked about it weather than preaching and poking a finger... It's all about how a situation is handled... Just ask any Canadian beef producer...... Sorry for the rant... I need more caffine. 
oldblood
Well-known member
I said my head was in sand because I was linebreding him & had nothing but good luck at that time. So at that time I didn't beleive it, because it never happen to me. Sad to say I know it is for real now. Katrina, I hope never have any.
Oldblood, Linebreeding to the degree you were is, of course, what caused the problem to express itself. But don't you think with enough linebreeding you're going to get those genetic defects sooner or later. We just maybe give the defect a different name. Genetically some bloodlines may resist longer than others but sooner or later..... Of course you also stand the chace of getting some superior animals also if I understand what little I know about linebreeding. Certainly no tclaiming to be an expert here. I'm kinda wondering how long to hold on to my Freightliner semen before using it. :?