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Gerald Fry?????

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Northern Rancher said:
How about not tilling at all and using pasture rest and grazing-there hasn't been bare ground on our place in 15 years or more. As for a competitive crop a vigerous stand of grass competes as good as anything I've found.
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I've never had any luck with convincing my cows to graze thistle. So it still ends up reseeding itself. I've got a timothy pasture that started out 8 years ago with a little bitty spot of thistle in the northwest corner. I've now got thistle coverage over 30% of that pasture, despite fertlizing the timothy.

As for the stand of grass, I agree with you. A good stand of grass will compete like mad, but I'm saying that it takes some work to get that stand going in my area. And it will also take some clipping to ensure that the thistle never gets a start.

Rod
 
"RRoss

"The economics of the registered industry thrives on motion, commotion and promotion of difference in order to sell illusion that descends from confusion" Larry Leonhardt
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What a great line, that sums up bovine "bull"arney at its best. :)
 
I find interesting how some are so anti-corn when it comes to feeding cows.

Someitmes it is the cheapest source of feed available. For example you could buy all the corn you wanted here in North central S.D. $1.45bu. at harvest.

I know of situations not that far from here where they dry lotted their cows in the summer because it was cheaper than renting summer pasture.
 
Have you ever tried it Rod-amazing what can be working and you not know it. I told my next door neighbor-he farms all around me that we hadn't reseeded grass for 15 years-he called B.S.-I asked when was the last time he saw a cultivator on my place lol. WB we all like to feed a least cost ration just some peple use corn to cover up some genetic shortcomings.
 
WB said:
I find interesting how some are so anti-corn when it comes to feeding cows.

Someitmes it is the cheapest source of feed available. For example you could buy all the corn you wanted here in North central S.D. $1.45bu. at harvest.

I know of situations not that far from here where they dry lotted their cows in the summer because it was cheaper than renting summer pasture.
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I bought semi load's of corn screenings delivered for $54 a ton cheaper than hay it's heavy screening's with alot of full kernel's a 5 gallon bucket weighs 33#s.I am feeding it to my replacement heifers 10#s a day cost per hd. is 27 cent's per day they have really layed off the hay.I am planing on feeding it to my first calf heifers after they calve till they go to grass.A friend of mine does this with good result's cheap insurance to get those 1st calf heifers rebred.
 
Soapweed~
Did I read in another post, where you place little value in EPDS.?
I appreciate the pix of you loading bulls out of the fence corner.
 
Northern Rancher said:
Have you ever tried it Rod-amazing what can be working and you not know it.
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Yup, check a couple pages back. We've come full circle now :lol: I only have to reseed my tame pastures every 10 - 15 years, as I maintain them with fertilizer or manure, and like I say, crested wheat/meadow brome/trefoil will easily outperform quack grass in my area.

Rod
 
Rod, I have a degree in Agronomy, farmed for 17 years, and ranched for over ten years, but that in no way qualifies me to tell you the best way to solve your problem. Allan Nation made a very accurate statement about our Southern pastures...they are borrowed forest land. If I didn't practice any kind of pasture management, my pasture would return to forest. I've brought back pastures that were covered with 1-2" saplings and briar patches. I did it with nothing other than a bush hog. Every plant with a growing point higher than 6" was soon choked out by plants with a growing point below 6". Successful crop growing is nothing more than applying management to give the "crop" the competitive advantage. If you want something off the wall, try spraying young thistle with molasses...I've read that cattle love it! :wink:
 
RRoss said:
RobertMac
Did G. Fry explain how to go about perpetuating these genetics?

He wrote an article called the" Constitution of a Superior Bull", I read it and was so confused at what he was saying, that I finally called a knowledgable friend to help me sort it out. We basically felt that what he was trying to achieve, he was going about it all backwards.
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RRoss, could you be more specific on what you don't understand? If you are quoting Larry Leonhardt, surely you have some understanding of closed herd linebreeding coupled with proper selection to achieve more genetic homozygosity(constitution). Below is the link to the article for those interested.

http://www.bovineengineering.com/NL_constitution_superior_bull.html
 
RobertMac said:
Rod, I have a degree in Agronomy, farmed for 17 years, and ranched for over ten years, but that in no way qualifies me to tell you the best way to solve your problem.
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If there is one thing I've learned about farming (I've been an unwilling grain farmer my whole life (35 yrs)) its this: What works in one area doesn't necessarily work in another. I've got family who still farm in Southern Sask (Ogema area) and if my father practiced their style of farming, he would have went out of business years ago. Weeds run rampant up here due to heavy rainfall. If you can get a grass started, it'll compete well, but the trick is to get it going.

As for the molasses idea :lol: I'll stick with cutting the thistle down. Its a little cheaper, and then I don't have to deal with my father complaining about the molasses in his sprayer tank :)

Rod
 
Can you ever control canadian thistle with grazing in a high rainfall area or where there is lots of moisture as along a creek or river?

If you just cut the top off and the roots spread are you really controling it?

I have field bindweed and there is a heavy stand of crested wheat grass and brome grass and it and the cattle grazing it keep the field bindweed in check, but if you were to try and farm the ground you would have a heavy load of bindweed again. This is one of the reasons I've quit planting and harvesting alfala.

We are in a 16 inch average rain/snow fall area. This year we've had about 12 to 13 inches.

As for the comments on grazing down to the nub on pastures, every area has different soil tyypes and rainfall and patterns. What can be done in one can't necessarily be done in another by the same methods.

There was a study in Wyoming a few years ago I was told about. Right at a cross fence they took moisture sample from the ground on both sides. One pasture had about 90% of the forage removed by grazing and the other had about 50% taken by grazing. The side with 90% removed had lots more topsoil moisture than the other. I found that interesting.

Continous(sp) grazing by a few is much harder on the "good "grasses than short duration grazing by many.

I don't worry as much about over grazing as "over hoof action". But then I use livestock to do my "farming" for me.
 
Jinglebob said:
Can you ever control canadian thistle with grazing in a high rainfall area or where there is lots of moisture as along a creek or river?

If you just cut the top off and the roots spread are you really controling it?
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According to everything I've ever read about russian and canadian thistle, if its kept clipped its supposed to die out over time. At the very least, if you clip it, it gives the grass a chance to catch up and choke it out.

Some of the old farmers around me swear that if you clip it just before a rainfall, it'll kill the plant off. I've never seen that work though.

Rod
 
DiamondSCattleCo said:
Jinglebob said:
Can you ever control canadian thistle with grazing in a high rainfall area or where there is lots of moisture as along a creek or river?

If you just cut the top off and the roots spread are you really controling it?
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According to everything I've ever read about russian and canadian thistle, if its kept clipped its supposed to die out over time. At the very least, if you clip it, it gives the grass a chance to catch up and choke it out.

Some of the old farmers around me swear that if you clip it just before a rainfall, it'll kill the plant off. I've never seen that work though.

Rod
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I've heard goats love it...you know if you start making money from it, it will surely die off!!! :lol: :wink:
 
RRoss said:
Soapweed~
Did I read in another post, where you place little value in EPDS.?
I appreciate the pix of you loading bulls out of the fence corner.
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It is probably more a matter of getting Doc Harris' goat, or maybe pulling on his goatee (if he has one?!). :wink: :)

Seriously, I do try to buy the best bulls available for the most inexpensive price available. EPD numbers don't mean anything to me, because I never pay attention to them anyway. Eye appeal of the bulls does mean something to me. Meat, muscle, and bone structure are all important. Disposition is important. Everything else just boils down to salesmanship of the seller, and the beauty of his bulls' EPDs are in his eyes, not mine.

This is why I enjoyed the quotation that you posted: "The economics of the registered industry thrives on motion, commotion and promotion of difference in order to sell illusion that descends from confusion" stated by Larry Leonhardt.

This is just about the way that things work in real life--too much hoopla, too little substance.

This is kind of off the subject, but it somehow pertains. An old cattle buyer had just purchased a load of used-up broken-mouthed cows from my dad. In visiting over a cup of coffee after the deal had been made, the old bovine buyer mentioned offhandedly that he had just returned from his 50 year high school class reunion. As it had been a number of years since he had attended one of these illustrious functions, he was surprised to see the changes in all of his old classmates. He remarked, "I just couldn't believe it, all the ugly girls got pretty and all the pretty girls got ugly."

Sound science sometimes is more "sound" than "science". :wink:
 
Northern Rancher said:
Like I've said I had about a 40 acre patch that was solid thistle and it's almost gone now by resting that field.
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Psssst, NR, I posted this back on page 1:

"I've got a little 2 acre piece of dirt that I quit haying because it was a pain in the neck to roll into and cut every year. In 7 years of not being tended, its still nothing but dandelion and thistle. "

I'm not the only guy in this neck of the woods whose seen similar results. Perkins (the natural guy), has several quarters of solid thistle that simply won't come to grass. It may work in your area, but it won't here.

Rod
 
I wonder why not our climate and area are virtually identical-and I did see your post_I guess I'm cheap enough to be eternally patient when it comes to not spending money on spray lol.
 
Soapweed said:
Seriously, I do try to buy the best bulls available for the most inexpensive price available. EPD numbers don't mean anything to me, because I never pay attention to them anyway. Eye appeal of the bulls does mean something to me. Meat, muscle, and bone structure are all important. Disposition is important. Everything else just boils down to salesmanship of the seller, and the beauty of his bulls' EPDs are in his eyes, not mine.
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Halleleujah! I thought I was the only other guy on these forums who doesn't pay much attention to EPDs. Before I buy a bull I look at the ranch and how the animals are fed, then I watch how he walks, his frame, disposition and performance of his calves. If its a yearling, I take a close look at his mother and her record of performance.

Rod
 

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