Manitoba_Rancher
Well-known member
OT- You still never answered my question. Seems your website shows you run a horse ranch not a cattle ranch. Do you own any cattle?
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Help Support Ranchers.net:
Manitoba_Rancher
Well-known member
Oldtimer said:Manitoba_Rancher said:OT- No where on there does it mention horses. From the looks of your website that is about all you raise at your place. So why are you getting so upset? Youve likely ate lots of Canadian beef in your day and enjoyed it. Has it killed you? Youve got a better chance of getting in a car accident then do getting VCJD from Canadian beef. THe only damn reason your so concerned about MCOOL is due to the fact R-calf wants it and any thing your lil cult wants you stand strong on it. Are they going to label Texas beef as product of Texas? If you dont forget they did have BSE in a cow there. Are you afraid to eat beef products from Texas?
Wrong MR- I supported M-COOL long before BSE was found anywhere in North America...And the reason I do is because the current practice is a FRAUD- it would be a crime if done with any other product...
Purposely and knowingly removing labeling from imported meat, restamping with a USDA stamp, and passing it off to consumers as a US product is FRAUD....
IF the product meets or exceeds standards of American beef I dont call that Fraud. YOu may be able to tell your R-calf cronnies that fraud story but I sure as heck dont believe it!
What I would like to know is if R-CALF was SO worried about the fraud being prepetrated on the US consumer why would they allow M'COOL be passed without labeling ALL MEAT? Fraud is only Fraud in R-CALFers eye when they say it is fraud otherwise it is just good marketing. :wink:Manitoba_Rancher said:Oldtimer said:Manitoba_Rancher said:OT- No where on there does it mention horses. From the looks of your website that is about all you raise at your place. So why are you getting so upset? Youve likely ate lots of Canadian beef in your day and enjoyed it. Has it killed you? Youve got a better chance of getting in a car accident then do getting VCJD from Canadian beef. THe only damn reason your so concerned about MCOOL is due to the fact R-calf wants it and any thing your lil cult wants you stand strong on it. Are they going to label Texas beef as product of Texas? If you dont forget they did have BSE in a cow there. Are you afraid to eat beef products from Texas?
Wrong MR- I supported M-COOL long before BSE was found anywhere in North America...And the reason I do is because the current practice is a FRAUD- it would be a crime if done with any other product...
Purposely and knowingly removing labeling from imported meat, restamping with a USDA stamp, and passing it off to consumers as a US product is FRAUD....
IF the product meets or exceeds standards of American beef I dont call that Fraud. YOu may be able to tell your R-calf cronnies that fraud story but I sure as heck dont believe it!
A
Anonymous
Guest
Tam- the packers and their backers at the NCBA got the food service exemption put into the law- thinking it would kill the bill...I would have and I'm sure R-CALF would have liked to see it passed as originally written...
Wasn't it originally written to INCLUDE M"ID" Oldtimer? If R-CALF got that taken out as they so proudly claim they did, then it wasn't as originally written was it? and Maybe the others felt it was better to toss the hole thing out and start over if the only true way of insuring where US beef comes from was toss out by R-CALF. :wink:Oldtimer said:Tam- the packers and their backers at the NCBA got the food service exemption put into the law- thinking it would kill the bill...I would have and I'm sure R-CALF would have liked to see it passed as originally written...
A
Anonymous
Guest
Tam said:Wasn't it originally written to INCLUDE M"ID" Oldtimer? If R-CALF got that taken out as they so proudly claim they did, then it wasn't as originally written was it? and Maybe the others felt it was better to toss the hole thing out and start over if the only true way of insuring where US beef comes from was toss out by R-CALF. :wink:Oldtimer said:Tam- the packers and their backers at the NCBA got the food service exemption put into the law- thinking it would kill the bill...I would have and I'm sure R-CALF would have liked to see it passed as originally written...
I don't remember R-CALF ever supporting an M-ID version..
Manitoba_Rancher
Well-known member
There we go with the R-calf way...lieing again! :roll:
Gee first you say you and R-CALF would have supported the way it was originally written. If it wasn't originally written with M"ID" in why did R-CALF claim to have got it taken out. You can't take something out if it was never in, just like you can't maintain something if you never had it to begin with. :wink:Oldtimer said:Tam said:Wasn't it originally written to INCLUDE M"ID" Oldtimer? If R-CALF got that taken out as they so proudly claim they did, then it wasn't as originally written was it? and Maybe the others felt it was better to toss the hole thing out and start over if the only true way of insuring where US beef comes from was toss out by R-CALF. :wink:Oldtimer said:Tam- the packers and their backers at the NCBA got the food service exemption put into the law- thinking it would kill the bill...I would have and I'm sure R-CALF would have liked to see it passed as originally written...
I don't remember R-CALF ever supporting an M-ID version..
A
Anonymous
Guest
Tam said:Gee first you say you and R-CALF would have supported the way it was originally written. If it wasn't originally written with M"ID" in why did R-CALF claim to have got it taken out. You can't take something out if it was never in, just like you can't maintain something if you never had it to begin with. :wink:Oldtimer said:Tam said:Wasn't it originally written to INCLUDE M"ID" Oldtimer? If R-CALF got that taken out as they so proudly claim they did, then it wasn't as originally written was it? and Maybe the others felt it was better to toss the hole thing out and start over if the only true way of insuring where US beef comes from was toss out by R-CALF. :wink:
I don't remember R-CALF ever supporting an M-ID version..
My sympathies go out to Big Muddy :roll: :drink:
Tommy
Well-known member
Myth: Mandatory I.D. to the cow-calf producer will be needed to implement COOL.
Fact: Nothing could be further from the truth. COOL legislation clearly states that a mandatory I.D.program cannot be used to implement COOL. There are several labeling models already used by USDA to label products from various regions, and these models are both low cost and effective. Remember the legislation passed was Country of Origin, not Farm or Ranch of Origin. As FSIS reported "there are labeling practices now in use that could serve as full, or partial, models for country of origin labeling…Many of the breed identification and other certification programs require segregation beginning with the live animals. Systems have been put into place by slaughter plants to accommodate such certification programs." It is also important to note the "all natural beef" or "beef raised without hormone implants or antibiotics" do not require sourcing to the ranch. All that is required are affidavits or certificates verifying that producers do not use such products. Certainly, verifying that an animal was born in the United States should be just as simple, if not easier.
Fact: Nothing could be further from the truth. COOL legislation clearly states that a mandatory I.D.program cannot be used to implement COOL. There are several labeling models already used by USDA to label products from various regions, and these models are both low cost and effective. Remember the legislation passed was Country of Origin, not Farm or Ranch of Origin. As FSIS reported "there are labeling practices now in use that could serve as full, or partial, models for country of origin labeling…Many of the breed identification and other certification programs require segregation beginning with the live animals. Systems have been put into place by slaughter plants to accommodate such certification programs." It is also important to note the "all natural beef" or "beef raised without hormone implants or antibiotics" do not require sourcing to the ranch. All that is required are affidavits or certificates verifying that producers do not use such products. Certainly, verifying that an animal was born in the United States should be just as simple, if not easier.
Jason
Well-known member
Tommy said:Myth: Mandatory I.D. to the cow-calf producer will be needed to implement COOL.
Fact: Nothing could be further from the truth. COOL legislation clearly states that a mandatory I.D.program cannot be used to implement COOL. There are several labeling models already used by USDA to label products from various regions, and these models are both low cost and effective. Remember the legislation passed was Country of Origin, not Farm or Ranch of Origin. As FSIS reported "there are labeling practices now in use that could serve as full, or partial, models for country of origin labeling…Many of the breed identification and other certification programs require segregation beginning with the live animals. Systems have been put into place by slaughter plants to accommodate such certification programs." It is also important to note the "all natural beef" or "beef raised without hormone implants or antibiotics" do not require sourcing to the ranch. All that is required are affidavits or certificates verifying that producers do not use such products. Certainly, verifying that an animal was born in the United States should be just as simple, if not easier.
So all that would have to be done is sell foreign cattle to an American citizen who swears (honestly) he bought the said animals in the US. Good plan!
A
Anonymous
Guest
Jason said:Tommy said:Myth: Mandatory I.D. to the cow-calf producer will be needed to implement COOL.
Fact: Nothing could be further from the truth. COOL legislation clearly states that a mandatory I.D.program cannot be used to implement COOL. There are several labeling models already used by USDA to label products from various regions, and these models are both low cost and effective. Remember the legislation passed was Country of Origin, not Farm or Ranch of Origin. As FSIS reported "there are labeling practices now in use that could serve as full, or partial, models for country of origin labeling…Many of the breed identification and other certification programs require segregation beginning with the live animals. Systems have been put into place by slaughter plants to accommodate such certification programs." It is also important to note the "all natural beef" or "beef raised without hormone implants or antibiotics" do not require sourcing to the ranch. All that is required are affidavits or certificates verifying that producers do not use such products. Certainly, verifying that an animal was born in the United States should be just as simple, if not easier.
So all that would have to be done is sell foreign cattle to an American citizen who swears (honestly) he bought the said animals in the US. Good plan!
Jason- How do you verify birth date for your miraculous ID system--Do you have a vet witness each birth and record birthdate (you probably do :roll: )? Or is it by what you swear too?
And now with the Canadian cattle being branded with the C rafter N you can't pass off those contraband cattle in the US.....COOL can be easily implemented if the USDA weren't bought out.....
Manitoba_Rancher
Well-known member
Oldtimer said:Jason said:Tommy said:Myth: Mandatory I.D. to the cow-calf producer will be needed to implement COOL.
Fact: Nothing could be further from the truth. COOL legislation clearly states that a mandatory I.D.program cannot be used to implement COOL. There are several labeling models already used by USDA to label products from various regions, and these models are both low cost and effective. Remember the legislation passed was Country of Origin, not Farm or Ranch of Origin. As FSIS reported "there are labeling practices now in use that could serve as full, or partial, models for country of origin labeling…Many of the breed identification and other certification programs require segregation beginning with the live animals. Systems have been put into place by slaughter plants to accommodate such certification programs." It is also important to note the "all natural beef" or "beef raised without hormone implants or antibiotics" do not require sourcing to the ranch. All that is required are affidavits or certificates verifying that producers do not use such products. Certainly, verifying that an animal was born in the United States should be just as simple, if not easier.
So all that would have to be done is sell foreign cattle to an American citizen who swears (honestly) he bought the said animals in the US. Good plan!
Jason- How do you verify birth date for your miraculous ID system--Do you have a vet witness each birth and record birthdate (you probably do :roll: )? Or is it by what you swear too?
And now with the Canadian cattle being branded with the C rafter N you can't pass off those contraband cattle in the US.....COOL can be easily implemented if the USDA weren't bought out.....
OT,
And you swear by your affidavid scheme do you for birth dates? Oh yeah I forgot they get you as a brand inspector to check it all out.. when your as big of a liar as any. YOu better stick to raising horses becuase your disgracing the US beef industry. Oh thats right thats R-calfs mission!
Jason
Well-known member
With the ID tags, you register the numbers for the starting birth date. You couldn't register a date in the future, computers won't let you. You could register a date in the past, but do you keep calves long enough to really mess up the data? (maybe a month or two)
Funny how packers are crooked until they have to MCOOL without ID. Yet everyone else is crooked as soon as MID is mentioned.
Funny how packers are crooked until they have to MCOOL without ID. Yet everyone else is crooked as soon as MID is mentioned.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Jason said:With the ID tags, you register the numbers for the starting birth date. You couldn't register a date in the future, computers won't let you. You could register a date in the past, but do you keep calves long enough to really mess up the data? (maybe a month or two)
Funny how packers are crooked until they have to MCOOL without ID. Yet everyone else is crooked as soon as MID is mentioned.
Aren't you a bull raiser? Jason-Is that what you do with your birthweights and weaning weights? :???:
We're supposed to believe a Canuck whose out to make a buck off selling bulls to the American market- but all US producers are going to lie and falsify affidavits to prove ownership....Maybe we should demand vet certification on your EPD info....OK, You and MR are in a class of your own ....:roll: :wink:
Jason
Well-known member
Where did I say all would do it? I said all that had to be done to short circuit the system was to sell to a US buyer.
Put a dollar in it and someone will figure out a way to cheat, unless laws are there with teeth. With no way to confirm US cattle, all can become that with no repercussions.
Birth dates will be checked with mouthing you can bet. A calf registered as 20 months old but has it's 30 month teeth will be re-classified, bet on it.
Put a dollar in it and someone will figure out a way to cheat, unless laws are there with teeth. With no way to confirm US cattle, all can become that with no repercussions.
Birth dates will be checked with mouthing you can bet. A calf registered as 20 months old but has it's 30 month teeth will be re-classified, bet on it.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Jason said:Where did I say all would do it? I said all that had to be done to short circuit the system was to sell to a US buyer.
Put a dollar in it and someone will figure out a way to cheat, unless laws are there with teeth. With no way to confirm US cattle, all can become that with no repercussions.
Birth dates will be checked with mouthing you can bet. A calf registered as 20 months old but has it's 30 month teeth will be re-classified, bet on it.
And those that cheat or defraud long enough get caught- like when the USDA checked out the tax rolls for cattle numbers to verify with what they had reported for drought payments- or when the Assesor checks the tax rolls with the brand inspection sale recipts....Wasn't pretty for a very small few to try to explain...But that needs to be dealt with stiff penalties- not distrusting everyone......
But I forgot- You live in a Socialist Utopia.....
Jason
Well-known member
What will they use to cross check the cattle? If no American cattle are identified there is no way to know where all the cattle come from.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Jason said:What will they use to cross check the cattle? If no American cattle are identified there is no way to know where all the cattle come from.
All imported cattle are identified and have to be accounted for thru slaughter under current US regulations....Easier to follow the smaller amount....
You riding on our coat tails again Oldtimer? :roll:Oldtimer said:Jason said:What will they use to cross check the cattle? If no American cattle are identified there is no way to know where all the cattle come from.
All imported cattle are identified and have to be accounted for thru slaughter under current US regulations....Easier to follow the smaller amount....
