grading/genetics question

[flatlander]

My first organic,all natural,grass fed beef experiment ended today with a conversation with carcass grader. Although I haven't seen the paperwork or for that matter the carcass, this is the results. Carcass weight was 800 lbs,grading was choice. According to the grader, the primary deficiency was smaller than wanted ribeye which probably resulted from genetics.

These were two steers from 1400 lb angus cows x reputation bulls. Now the question. What would the recommendations be if a person was looking for a smaller animal and better grade/ribeye from the grass fed program?

 

[Angus 62]

How old was the animal? Right off hand I would say that a smaller framed genetics would be the logical choice. Ohlde's right there in Kansas have a lot of grass fed customers.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Ya use a bull with a better reputation. :wink: :lol: :lol:

 

[greybeard]

800# is a big grassfed animal.
Arn't OCC bulls mostly your standard 6807xEXT cross?

 

[flatlander]

16 months old. Bull was from the Benoit herd. Think they averaged about $5500 for their last bull sale but I'm sure not the person to ask about genetics of cattle.

 

[Northern Rancher]

EXT would be my last choice for a grass finished program-nervous cattle don't gain worth a crap on pasture and I'm pretty sure eating quality would suffer by the time you get one of them to the kill box. If your getting choice grade 800 lb carcasses at 16 months I wouldn't change a thing. You'll probably find your processing costs spread over some more pounds will help your bottom line.

 

[Anonymous]

800# is a big grassfed animal.
Arn't OCC bulls mostly your standard 6807xEXT cross?

Lots of OCC bulls/cattle have no EXT blood-- but are heavy on some of the old maternal bloodlines- Juanada- Emulous- Shoshone- some old Dale Davis bloodlines- Rito 707 , 707 F0203, Rito N Bar, and 6807...

Probably the most famous/used of the Ohlde bulls OCC Emblazon 854E has no EXT in him....

Another breeder that has combined a lot of those same genetics with Shoshone and Wye lines to build their herd is the Deboos at Diamond D- and they have some of the quiestest cattle in the angus breed with some of their bulls like Fahren 21X and Sure Enough 6D having some of the highest docility EPD's...

Diamond D would be another place to look for genetics to modify frame size with a proven past history of grass genetics....Whitney Creek at Rapelje (that just had their sale) is another place....

Heres a list of some other breeders that might fit what you want:

http://5barx.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=4006&hilit=Glen

 

[Angus 62]

I agree with NR. If you can get them that size, at that age on grass, don't change a thing.

 

[Dylan Biggs]

I agree with NR. If you can get them that size, at that age on grass, don't change a thing.

I also agree, why would you want a smaller carcass?

As far as grading goes, listen first to the consumer, he or she are your ultimate grader!

What were the ribeye measurements?

 

[hillsdown]

There is a huge difference between grass fed and grass finished . I would ask myself were they actually finished at the time of slaughter ..

 

[Northern Rancher]

I understood they graded choice which would make them as finished as you want I'd think.

 

[hillsdown]

I understood they graded choice which would make them as finished as you want I'd think.

I guess what I am saying is that there is no cookie cutter schedule for grass finished/grain finished no matter the genetics .

 

[Northern Rancher]

It's pretty flexible as long as your customers are happy with their product. We slaughtered a two year old freemartin heifer today should be pretty tasty.

 

[Hay Feeder]

There is a huge difference between grass fed and grass finished . I would ask myself were they actually finished at the time of slaughter ..

I do not know the answer but people that have eaten grass fed beef here that have some experience in feeding cattle say its the grass the cattle eat and the time of the year of the favor. Some rank grass have a rancid taste to the beef.
The idea comes from the days people had the family milk cow. Depending what the cow ate changed the flavor of the milk. If the cow ate weeds the milk tasted like onions etc.

Do not know if anyone here knows the difference between grass fed and grass finished. It would be hard to explain to the normal person.

See what others post..

 

[Northern Rancher]

They are fed forage until they are finished enough to slaughter-there are miles of posts arguing the semantics of it.

 

[flatlander]

Didn't wean until 7 mos old. Guessed at 750-800 then, which would put them at 2.2 lbs / day. Which is just about what I have done in the past.

Actually, they lost about 50 lbs according to the local elevator scale weight over the last 30 days so I assume they were past finishing. Couldn't get them scheduled for the processor prior to that.

Processing costs were $1043 which made me have a small hickup. Might sell some of the beef but the majority is for family and relatives and they can be pretty critical if it's free.

Sure do appreciate the views of others on this site. Over the years lurking almost daily, it is certainly obvious that there are plenty of serious cattlemen on here who have techniques (swarthing) I would have sure liked to try when I was lots younger. Thanks everyone.

 

[PureCountry]

Everything we do is grass finished, and I agree with the others that those are impressive numbers. 800lb carcass from 1400lbs live = 57% yield, which is good. It's very difficult to crack the 60% plateau on forage alone. We're getting there more consistently now, but it's taken alot of genetic work, record keeping, and balancing other traits while trying to push the yield.

My concern is your recent post stating that the animal lost 50lbs in the final month. Don't be surprised if someone comes back with the odd complaint. The key to grass finished being tender and juicy is the animal being on a "rising plane of nutrition", as the experts will tell you. Then again, the animal could be genetically predisposed for toughness, or tenderness, and that 50lbs may not matter at all. We've had some that we were certain would be excellent turn out bad, and others that were stressed before slaughter and we were certain would be tough, turned out fantastic. Our very first eating experience with our own grass finished beef was a dairy heifer off of our milk cow. She came in open, so we took her to the butcher straight off grass. She was high headed and got really worked up when we caught her, and at the butcher shop she went nuts in his corrals. I was tempted to grind everything but the loins, but it turned out to be some of the best beef we'd ever had.

So once you've tried yours, you'll know for sure, but going by your numbers, it looks like you have a few things going your way already.

 

[VLS_GUY]

I was just wondering if the Welsh Black bull Randy Kaiser is promoting (CARW GLYN ULTIMATE 66U) through Altagenetics could be used say with South Devon cross (Hereford or Angus) genetics to get a higher level of growth evident in flatlanders numbers with better carcass numbers? Just a thought.

 

[PureCountry]

I'm not sure you'll get alot more growth, although I'm sure you'll get some through hybrid vigour. Randy's cattle aren't so much selected for growth as they are for a fine balance of carcass, maternal and hardiness. I can say this without a doubt, his Welsh cows are as tough as my Galloways, with more performance.

The cross would definitely do you some good for carcass. Consigning to his sale has given me the opportunity to see Randy's ultrasound data and compare my Galloways to his and his Welsh. He routinely has bulls yield over 65%, with great marbling and adjusted ribeye's of 1.1-1.2 sq. inches per cwt. The yield is where he consistently tops the charts, although one of my Galloways beat his Welsh across the board last year.

If you really want to sample his genetics, try that bull, he's awesome. When we clipped him for the pictures last spring, I ran my hands over his top again and again because I couldn't believe how wide he was between the shoulder blades and across his ribcage. You could pour a gallon of water over that bull's back and half of it would pool on his shoulders.

Then again, Randy has his cowherd up for possible lease, if you're real ambitious. :wink:

 

[ANGUS327]

$1043 to process 800lbs!! yikes!! Thats $1.30 a pound. Dosn't matter how good your beef is you will have a hard time making money at those prices.