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Ground rod question

H

hillsdown

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Messages
1,669
Location
Central Alberta,Canada
How many ground rods do you have for your fencer. I have one fencer that covers about 4 miles or so all total and have the ground wire connected to 4 ground rods. BUT the darn calves have broken one of the wires off leaving only 3 connected. I am thinking of just taping the exposed wire up with et and leaving it because stringing a new wire through the ground connectors is a real PINTA. Do you think that will be enough or should I do it properly again. My bull pen where I keep them is confined only by hot wire so it needs to be working well or the buggers will be in the yard again fighting.

Thanks..
 
We just use one ground rod for each fencer. We also test it often to make sure things are working well. Do you have a tester? If not, I'd invest in one. We find the charge changes all the time depending on grass growing under the wires, how wet it is, and things like that.

It's a less painful way to see if it's working than grabbing the wire. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Or peeing on it, like our friend's son did. :roll: :o :o :o :o :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
i very seldom use electric fences, but when i do i just use one ground rod per fencer. how dry are you? if the ground is pretty dry take a gallon or so of water and pour in around the ground rod.
 
Thanks all, I redid the ground wire this afternoon.

Sounds like I have every base covered as far as my fencer goes compared to the one ground rod..It is on top of a hill the highest altitude at our place so water always runs down and the area is usually dry especially with the drought this year, therefore the extra grounds. JIC

I guess that is what you get for being raised by a master electrician ... :lol:

Fence tester always reads max amount on it so I know there is power on them and the calves gets zapped once in a while as well. Better safe than sorry though. I do not want my bulls running around willy nilly doing who knows what kind of damage..

Thanks again..
 
Agreed NR, the biggest problem with electric fences is poor grounding - but most people think grass growth is their problem. If the ground is good and the fence hot enough it will burn through the grass just fine! One common problem is mixing metals - ground rods of one material attached to the wire by a bolt of different metal leads to corrosion and failure. We have two rows of 4 posts in different locations but we have 20+ miles on the one charger. We still pour some hot water down the ground rods in winter to keep the contact good.
 
On a big fencer we use at least 3 - 20' galvanized ground rods. For a fence with a ground wire, we ground each section of the fence and connect the ground wires at the same time we connect the hots. This saves lots of time and maintenance.
Grounding is more important than power most of the time.
 
You know Justin I could stereotype you as a big dumb steer wrestler but I don't know how tall you are-if you can sound out the two posts above yours it tells you all you need to know. Your little pee and moan about my pposts is getting kind of old-grow up!!!!
 
Northern Rancher said:
Most fencers aren't grounded right around the country.
Click to expand...

I believe the figure is around 85% that aren't sufficient.

On all fences I install, I now add an earth wire return. I don't get dry enough conditions for it, but we do get snow and ice which has the same effect. I think pouring water on your ground rods is a waste of time. When the animal hits a live wire only, it goes through the animal, through the ground to the grounding "antenna". That water you pour on the rod only soaks a few inches away from the rod. You still have all that space between there and the animal that didn't get soaked. If you do have dry, poor soils you can buy super grounding kits. It's a tube you bury and pound your ground rod into. Helps the conductivity in poor soils.
http://www.gallagherusa.com/electric-fencing/permanent.component.aspx?mktprodid=1378
One other tip. Rent a hammer drill, I bought one with a SDS Max chuck, and get a ground rod driver for it. Switch it to hammer only and vibrate the rod into the ground. I installed like 10 rods on a 25 joule MBX 2500 charger. The last two hit bedrock or something. I just put my weight on the hammer drill and spent more time, but eventually got them in.

If you have a metal culvert somewhere, run a ground wire to that, that's about the best ground you can get.

Download the Gallagher Manual. Grounding information starts on page 18, should be everything you need to know.
http://www.gallagherusa.com/common/...978-Powerfence-US-Ed1&internal=true&extn=.pdf

Highlights
10-3-6-1 Rule for Ground rods :
10 Feet between ground rods
3 Ground rods minimum required
6 Feet min. length of ground rod
1 Wire connecting all ground rods

Energizer Size Ground rods
required
Up to 15 J 3 Stakes minimum
Up to 25 J 5 Stakes minimum
Up to 35 J 7 Stakes minimum


Location of the ground system

The most effective place for the ground
system is in continuously damp, high
mineral soil.
• At least 33ft from an electrical or
telephone ground (the further away the
better)
• At least 33ft from metal pipes carrying
domestic or stock water
• At least 66ft from any dairy shed pipe
work
• Not connected to, or touching steel or
iron clad buildings
• Protected from machinery and stock
damage
• Away from fertilizer, animal urine and
manure (corrosion)


TESTING

Test the ground system
This needs to be done once a short section
of fence has been built. It should be tested
at least once a year or at the height of any
dry period to ensure the grounding capacity
is sufficient for the joule rating of the
energizer.
Short the fence out at least 330ft away
from the ground system by using several
steel stakes between the hot wires and the
ground. Reduce the fence voltage at this
point to 2000V (2kV) or less.
Using a Digital Volt Meter (DVM) (G5030 or
G5035) measure the voltage between the
wire connecting through the ground rods
to the energizer ground terminal and an
independent ground rod. This stake should
be a galvanized metal rod, minimum 8"
long, and placed 3ft away from the ground
rods or as far away as your DVM cable will
reach (see Figure 4.9).
Note: If you are using a SmartPower
energizer the ground monitor/alarm will
indicate when the ground system requires
attention (see Figure 4.6).
There should be no reading on the DVM,
however up to 200V (0.2kV) is acceptable.
If the voltage is higher than this, switch off
the energizer, drive in more ground rods at
the recommended spacings and connect
them to the existing ground system until
the voltage is down to the acceptable level.
 
awesome Ben,
Thanks.... We do some hot wire and I'm the girl who does it... I learned a bunch.... Thanks everyone.... I agree on the grounding thingy... It makes all the differance in the world....
 
Northern Rancher said:
You know Justin I could stereotype you as a big dumb steer wrestler but I don't know how tall you are-if you can sound out the two posts above yours it tells you all you need to know. Your little pee and moan about my pposts is getting kind of old-grow up!!!!
Click to expand...

i'm about 6'4" so go ahead and call me what you want. you never said you agreed with the prior posts, so i thought you might have your own expert opinion on this topic....like you normally do. i wasn't trying to ruffle you feathers.
 
Ben H said:
Northern Rancher said:
Most fencers aren't grounded right around the country.
Click to expand...

I believe the figure is around 85% that aren't sufficient.

On all fences I install, I now add an earth wire return. I don't get dry enough conditions for it, but we do get snow and ice which has the same effect. I think pouring water on your ground rods is a waste of time. When the animal hits a live wire only, it goes through the animal, through the ground to the grounding "antenna". That water you pour on the rod only soaks a few inches away from the rod. You still have all that space between there and the animal that didn't get soaked. If you do have dry, poor soils you can buy super grounding kits. It's a tube you bury and pound your ground rod into. Helps the conductivity in poor soils.
http://www.gallagherusa.com/electric-fencing/permanent.component.aspx?mktprodid=1378
One other tip. Rent a hammer drill, I bought one with a SDS Max chuck, and get a ground rod driver for it. Switch it to hammer only and vibrate the rod into the ground. I installed like 10 rods on a 25 joule MBX 2500 charger. The last two hit bedrock or something. I just put my weight on the hammer drill and spent more time, but eventually got them in.

If you have a metal culvert somewhere, run a ground wire to that, that's about the best ground you can get.

Download the Gallagher Manual. Grounding information starts on page 18, should be everything you need to know.
http://www.gallagherusa.com/common/...978-Powerfence-US-Ed1&internal=true&extn=.pdf

Highlights
10-3-6-1 Rule for Ground rods :
10 Feet between ground rods
3 Ground rods minimum required
6 Feet min. length of ground rod
1 Wire connecting all ground rods

Energizer Size Ground rods
required
Up to 15 J 3 Stakes minimum
Up to 25 J 5 Stakes minimum
Up to 35 J 7 Stakes minimum


Location of the ground system

The most effective place for the ground
system is in continuously damp, high
mineral soil.
• At least 33ft from an electrical or
telephone ground (the further away the
better)
• At least 33ft from metal pipes carrying
domestic or stock water
• At least 66ft from any dairy shed pipe
work
• Not connected to, or touching steel or
iron clad buildings
• Protected from machinery and stock
damage
• Away from fertilizer, animal urine and
manure (corrosion)


TESTING

Test the ground system
This needs to be done once a short section
of fence has been built. It should be tested
at least once a year or at the height of any
dry period to ensure the grounding capacity
is sufficient for the joule rating of the
energizer.
Short the fence out at least 330ft away
from the ground system by using several
steel stakes between the hot wires and the
ground. Reduce the fence voltage at this
point to 2000V (2kV) or less.
Using a Digital Volt Meter (DVM) (G5030 or
G5035) measure the voltage between the
wire connecting through the ground rods
to the energizer ground terminal and an
independent ground rod. This stake should
be a galvanized metal rod, minimum 8"
long, and placed 3ft away from the ground
rods or as far away as your DVM cable will
reach (see Figure 4.9).
Note: If you are using a SmartPower
energizer the ground monitor/alarm will
indicate when the ground system requires
attention (see Figure 4.6).
There should be no reading on the DVM,
however up to 200V (0.2kV) is acceptable.
If the voltage is higher than this, switch off
the energizer, drive in more ground rods at
the recommended spacings and connect
them to the existing ground system until
the voltage is down to the acceptable level.
Click to expand...

Snow doesn't conduct electricity there isn't enough minerals in it - that's why it also makes a pretty good insulator (ie tough for cows to get a good shock in winter standing on it.)
 
How do you like your MBX 2500-I drol over it in the Gallaghere catalogue-I've got a 30 foot deep wetwell that would ground it pretty good. They are just over $800 stateside for one last I checked. After 20 years of building electric fence wrong -were kind of getting thigs a little more bulletproof.
 
many of the fencing maanuals suggest you put the ground rods in a "star" pattern. While I see the technical benefit if that (more likely to keep in moist, conductive soil) in a practical view that star doesn't work for me - always someone or cattl tripping on wires or rods...

I use (4) 8 ft GALVANIZED (not copper) rods for each 6 joule fencer. I run the 8 ft galvanized ground rods in a line UNDER the fence about 10 ft apart. I pound them in at a bit of an angle with a t post pounder then finish with a 12 lb sledge until only about 2-3" sticking above soil, directly under the bottom wire. The key is to use GALVANIZED wire ( I use the Gallagher regular underground wire) strip a couple inches off at the end and at each rod and use a bronze circular grounding clip with stainless screw at each rod. But keep it one continuous length with no splices. Low resistance is very important. Joints are places for resistance esp after a few years.

Run a continuous single length of wire through each grounding clip stripping a couple inches of insulation at each clip back to the fencer.

I also dig a 3 or 4" deep trench between rods and bury the line in that so there is almost no way that line can get snagged by a cow, mower, weed whipper, etc.

This is a bit of work initially but with (4) 8 ft long rods buried and like metals in contact this is a ground system that will work for years. jmho and experience.

I do run one more 8 ft ground rod under the fence 10 ft in the other direction (20 ft from the nearest ground system rod) for the lightning choke, again using galvanized wire held against a galvanized rod with a stainless screw. I lost 2 fencers due to lightning before installing chokes and a 120V line isolator. (Premier has these)

Jim
 
Grassfarmer, that's what I meant with the snow, ice. It doesn't conduct just like drought conditions. The guy who built our first HT fence told us you only needed a earth wire return in dry parts of the country. We took over the area gallagher dealer account when he retired and have since learned he was wrong on a lot of things.

I bury the wire between the ground rods and cover the ends with dirt so nothing trips on them.

The star pattern is typically only for your lightning diverters, not the ground system. It's also a good idea to have some lighting diverters along your fence. Apparently you could be trying to move your cows through a gate when a storm is coming, you guys with these huge tracts of land could have a lightning hit a mile away and electrocute you if there aren't diverters on the way.

I buy the grounding kits from Gallagher, 3 rods, 3 clamps, 50' of galv wire.

The MBX 2500 is a good charger, a little overkill for what I need. New Zealand and Australia have Gallagher products that aren't available here, they have a MBX 1500 (15 joules instead of 25), this would be more appropriate for my needs. One of the neat features is being able to have a battery backup, or run from that battery, or keep that battery charged with a solar panel. When using mains power the battery gets trickle charged. You are supposed to be able to hook up an alarm/siren for too low fence voltage or too high ground voltage, but I don't think those items are available in the US at this time. The plug ins are on the charger. You can also somehow hook up a phone dialer. The fencer adjusts the joules based on the need. This spring it was putting out 25 joules, but this summer it automatically cut back to like 9. I was disappointed with the remote, it's too big and only shuts the fence on/off. Sometimes I have a little trouble getting it to work. Speedrite or Stayfix combines their remote with a voltage meter and fault direction finder. Gallagher does offer something similar over in NZ/Australia. Gallagher is behind on things in the US market, I don't know what their problem is, there are some real good products over seas, but their behind the ball over here. I build more of a hybrid. I use Gallagher when it makes sense since I get it at dealer cost, but I also buy from Kencove and Powerflex.

My next charger I'm installing is a MR2500, doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the MBX, but does allow me to use the remote I already have.
 
Are any of you running 12v fencers without solar chargers? I need something temporary to do less than five miles total - a clean area and it shouldn't have to shock through any grass or brush. I was thinking about using a 12v and just keeping a spare battery charged up. Any advice for an application like that?
 
Texan said:
Are any of you running 12v fencers without solar chargers? I need something temporary to do less than five miles total - a clean area and it shouldn't have to shock through any grass or brush. I was thinking about using a 12v and just keeping a spare battery charged up. Any advice for an application like that?
Click to expand...
As long as your hot wire isn't grounding, you should be using very little current and a good auto battery should last a few weeks...been awhile since I used a set up like that. Keep a check on the battery voltage...when it starts dropping off, swap the batteries. You can also tell when the battery is getting weak by how fast you charger "pings".

The most important thing that determines how well an electric fence works, is if the animals are trained to it. I could pin my cows with a cotton string and they would probably stand there and starve to death.

Ben, this was a good read until you cheated and broke out the manual...real men don't read manuals! :wink: :wink: :lol:
 
We´re in the final stages of installing 5000 meters of electric fencing for hogs and my engineer plans to install 3 six foot copper rods for grounding.

I also understand that he´s buried a couple of sacks of urea where the rods are being driven because it has a tendency to attrack and hold mositure.
 

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