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has the bubble burst

How convenient that the ethanol bashers always leave out the portion of corn that is still used for feed after the corn is made into ethanol. About 30% if I am not mistaken.

I would like to add also that corn was kept at a artificially low level for a long time by govt. subsidies. I remember selling corn for $1.50/ bu. in the fall of 2005. Of course we were paid a subsidy to produce corn for that level. Now the government doesn't have to pay because of the higher price level.
 
WB said:
How convenient that the ethanol bashers always leave out the portion of corn that is still used for feed after the corn is made into ethanol. About 30% if I am not mistaken.

I would like to add also that corn was kept at a artificially low level for a long time by govt. subsidies. I remember selling corn for $1.50/ bu. in the fall of 2005. Of course we were paid a subsidy to produce corn for that level. Now the government doesn't have to pay because of the higher price level.
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Your government subsidy is just coming through the backdoor now, pal. Don't get high and mighty. When the government wakes up to the stupidity that is ethanol we will all be better off.
 
I wish that we could all get a fair price for our products, whether it be corn or beef. Although, I find it very hard to support government subsidies for anyone. WB mentions that 30% of the corn is left for feed after it is made into ethanol. How much of that corn would be left for feed, if there were no subsidies for new ethanol plants? Its kind of hard to support something that takes more energy to produce than is derived from it.
 
My point is that the govt. subsidy for corn production is far less today than in 2005 when we were getting $1.50 bu. for corn. Anyone that believes that ethanol is a net energy loser needs to do a little reasearch because the facts say otherwise.
 
I've done more than a little research on the attributes of ethanol. Most of the studies that I've read that touted the benefits of ethanol were written by the same people who think the ice caps are going to be flooding us out in a couple of years. The other pro ethanol articles I've read were written by the corn industry. I have built quite a few ethanol plants allover the upper midwest and into the Dakotas and have been able to spend some quality time with the engineers who design the plants. And each plant will be a bit more eficient than the last one. Each of those engineers made no secret that ethanol is not the world saver that some claim. They would build those plants with the help of govt subsidies to get the ethanol brand name in the market place to generate revenue to help support further research. The general consensus was that ethanol could be a viable option someday, but at the present, more energy goes in than what comes out.
 
BB2: It is factually wrong to say that more energy goes into a gallon of ethanol than comes out I don't care what your personal feelings are. No we will never be able to run the whole country on ethanol I understand that but having some renewable energy is better that none. Our country should be doing a whole lot more on the energy issue than it is currently doing rather than worrying about some silly cap and trade policy.
 
The U.S. didn't get in debt just from obama this country has been going down this road for along time this just didn't happen over night.

Corn yields have been increasing more and more the last 5 to 10 years. They are already talking about 400+ bushel yields in the future. There will be enought to go around for both sides (thats my opion). They have already said that corn acres will increase next year because of the price right now.

WB im with you I raise corn and cattle alike. For me its nice to have a ethanol plant 50 miles away to truck corn and have another market source to sell my grain.
 
WB said:
BB2: It is factually wrong to say that more energy goes into a gallon of ethanol than comes out I don't care what your personal feelings are. No we will never be able to run the whole country on ethanol I understand that but having some renewable energy is better that none. Our country should be doing a whole lot more on the energy issue than it is currently doing rather than worrying about some silly cap and trade policy.
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WB, your comment intrigues me.

How much energy (BTUs) goes into producing a gallon of corn ethanol (seed production to gas tank) and how many BTUs are generated by burning a gallon? I hate to ask a stupid question, but is it only mechanical energy we should be looking at, or also human energy?

Renewable energy? Would Nuclear energy be more energy efficient and more renewable than all other "fully developed" forms of energy at present?
 
I have read plenty of article that say when all the "energy input" is calculated it is a net energy loser. You must include "all in" accounting from energy for the machinery to construct the plants for the energy required to plant the crops (that diesel in those tractors is cheap isn't it). THE ENERGY REQUIRED TO PRODUCE THE FERTILIZER that is put on the fields. The energy required to design and produce the seed corn, ect....

There are a LOT OF COSTS. I have also read many articles that throw cold water on the 'green benefits" of ethanol as well. When all the carbon is accounting for from manufacture from seed to the gas tank there is more carbon emissions than from the carbon saved by burning it in the Honda instead of fossil fuels.

To much "greenie" pie in the sky and not enough sharp pencils.

I understand you are "talking your book" and want so to believe in the fairy tale because you personally benefit, but that does not make it so.
 
Even getting away from ethanol, lets look at CRP. From the last figures I found, in 2009 there were 30 million acres enrolled. The 2009 figure for payments was $1,866,558,139. Almost 2 billion dollars being paid for the purpose of NOT being productive. There is no excuse for this.

We are no where close to being tapped out on production. Beside the amount of land above, how many places are purchased for hunting or recreational usage?

I agree with whoever posted several pages back, allot of the wastefulness and ridiculousness of our current culture would improve if people started going to bed a little hungrier than they are now.

I couldn't believe a story carried by the local news a few weeks back. Mcdonald's donated free happy meals to a function for kids held by the Governor. Several people wrote in complaining the Governor (of our broke state) should have had something healthier for the kids. :???:

I sure don't wish it, but a lot of souls today could use the same cleansing that was experienced with the great depression generation.
 
okfarmer said:
Even getting away from ethanol, lets look at CRP. From the last figures I found, in 2009 there were 30 million acres enrolled. The 2009 figure for payments was $1,866,558,139. Almost 2 billion dollars being paid for the purpose of NOT being productive. There is no excuse for this.

We are no where close to being tapped out on production. Beside the amount of land above, how many places are purchased for hunting or recreational usage?

I agree with whoever posted several pages back, allot of the wastefulness and ridiculousness of our current culture would improve if people started going to bed a little hungrier than they are now.

I couldn't believe a story carried by the local news a few weeks back. Mcdonald's donated free happy meals to a function for kids held by the Governor. Several people wrote in complaining the Governor (of our broke state) should have had something healthier for the kids. :???:

I sure don't wish it, but a lot of souls today could use the same cleansing that was experienced with the great depression generation.
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Yup. The one thing that concerns me about that though is the chaotic mess our countries would be in if that should come to pass and what it would take to restore order. . .
 

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