Hay..Asset orExpense

[Big Muddy rancher]

I guess I need to contain my enthusiasm a little more if I hit a nerve or two. I am sorry for the comments that might be offensive as that is not my intension. I am getting a little positive information from every comment here. In my defense however I would like to point out that both neighbors in my environment last year with the same opportunities in the same valley fed for exactly twice as long as us. This should be something to celebrate and share or at least do the math on. Had we not learned to stockpile grass and adjust our calving and weaning dates, we would have had to feed hay for the same amount of time as them. This year we have already winter grazed another two weeks longer than last year getting us within two days of February.This is nothing new. It is a return to basics using common sense low inputs and different management styles. It is likely the very thing our predecessors used to do when they were putting the places together we now have to operate. Nothing stays the same forever in any business. For us it was the only choice we could make to survive and the difference it has made not only to our bottom line but to our health and the land is nothing short of spectacular. Only one generation ago my wife's parents bought this place for less money than we spent on our last baler and we only have one third of the original ranch. Joel Salatin claims that the industry standard length of time most farmers ( or ranchers if you prefer ) feed hay from Florida to Northern Alberta is 120 days. We used to feed for 150 days. This has a lot more to do with management than environment. I firmly believe we all have something to share with each other and these things can and have made a profound difference in ours and many others lives and businesses. I love the Henry Ford quote that I come across from time to time. If you think you can or you think you can't, You are right. Hope this is taken in the positive way it is sincerely intended.

Here is my observation that doesn't seem to come to light very often. Stockpiled grass is great, and if a rancher can winter on it, more power to them. In my case, our Sandhills grasses lack "punch" in the winter time. If I stockpiled grass for winter grazing, it would definitely cut into the cattle numbers that we can summer. Our sloughey grasses on the wet meadows makes good hay but lousy grazing. Yes, we have the expense of putting up hay, but it is also rather like buying insurance. If the snow gets deep, we still have feed available.

Again highlighting the adaptability of cattle, we all need to manage for the environment we live in. I could be wrong but I think the area I ranch in could be the one of the most extremes. Hot to cold, snow to bare ground. That's not saying other areas aren't hotter or colder or have more snow or less. Just that the only thing we can count on is we can't count on averages.

I have 200 cows out in the hills and it doesn't look like they will see a bale of hay this winter, the 1st and 2nd calvers are in closer as they are growing and maturing they get a little more feed. The PB cows are in closer just for the fact we want them around to tag calves for records. The commercials don't get tagged to match momma. Our cured stock piled forages are great winter feed for mature cattle but you can't always count on having it available so need a adequate supply of hay on hand. I find in our area the hay I grow is generally better and cheaper then what I can buy. That might not be the case everywhere.

 

[Jinglebob]

I guess I need to contain my enthusiasm a little more if I hit a nerve or two. I am sorry for the comments that might be offensive as that is not my intension. I am getting a little positive information from every comment here. In my defense however I would like to point out that both neighbors in my environment last year with the same opportunities in the same valley fed for exactly twice as long as us. This should be something to celebrate and share or at least do the math on. Had we not learned to stockpile grass and adjust our calving and weaning dates, we would have had to feed hay for the same amount of time as them. This year we have already winter grazed another two weeks longer than last year getting us within two days of February.This is nothing new. It is a return to basics using common sense low inputs and different management styles. It is likely the very thing our predecessors used to do when they were putting the places together we now have to operate. Nothing stays the same forever in any business. For us it was the only choice we could make to survive and the difference it has made not only to our bottom line but to our health and the land is nothing short of spectacular. Only one generation ago my wife's parents bought this place for less money than we spent on our last baler and we only have one third of the original ranch. Joel Salatin claims that the industry standard length of time most farmers ( or ranchers if you prefer ) feed hay from Florida to Northern Alberta is 120 days. We used to feed for 150 days. This has a lot more to do with management than environment. I firmly believe we all have something to share with each other and these things can and have made a profound difference in ours and many others lives and businesses. I love the Henry Ford quote that I come across from time to time. If you think you can or you think you can't, You are right. Hope this is taken in the positive way it is sincerely intended.

Can't remember where it was I saw it, but it was claimed most people will not change until they are forced to. I feel just as you do C Thompson. Most of my neighbors shake their heads and think I am crazy for ranching as I do. that is fine. I'd rather stand out from a crowd than be a part of it. Most of the time most of the people are not right about EVERYTHING. Just some things. Like you I had to do things as I do now to survive and have come to enjoy it and see the benefits. There are always those who will say,. "That won't work here, because...." and they have a good reason. I like it that we all get to do it as we want and that different factors have us all doing the same thing, Ranching, in different ways yet similar.

 

[miocene]

soapweed &big muddy your comments echo my exact feelings on this as i know i can count on snow from december to april i must manage my land base to accomodate this fact of life.while cthompson is a strong advocate for electric fencing i feel that it is only one tool in the box i have been using some for pasture management purposes and intend to use more in the future but it will be a cold day in Hell before i'll give up barb wire perimiter fences or my haying equipment to provide my secure hay base.

 

[RSL]

I guess I need to contain my enthusiasm a little more if I hit a nerve or two. I am sorry for the comments that might be offensive as that is not my intension. I am getting a little positive information from every comment here. In my defense however I would like to point out that both neighbors in my environment last year with the same opportunities in the same valley fed for exactly twice as long as us. This should be something to celebrate and share or at least do the math on. Had we not learned to stockpile grass and adjust our calving and weaning dates, we would have had to feed hay for the same amount of time as them. This year we have already winter grazed another two weeks longer than last year getting us within two days of February.This is nothing new. It is a return to basics using common sense low inputs and different management styles. It is likely the very thing our predecessors used to do when they were putting the places together we now have to operate. Nothing stays the same forever in any business. For us it was the only choice we could make to survive and the difference it has made not only to our bottom line but to our health and the land is nothing short of spectacular. Only one generation ago my wife's parents bought this place for less money than we spent on our last baler and we only have one third of the original ranch. Joel Salatin claims that the industry standard length of time most farmers ( or ranchers if you prefer ) feed hay from Florida to Northern Alberta is 120 days. We used to feed for 150 days. This has a lot more to do with management than environment. I firmly believe we all have something to share with each other and these things can and have made a profound difference in ours and many others lives and businesses. I love the Henry Ford quote that I come across from time to time. If you think you can or you think you can't, You are right. Hope this is taken in the positive way it is sincerely intended.

I appreciate your candor, since we are slightly off base here as well. Everyone I have ever met in this business usually has a reason(s) for what they do. We tend to graze a long time and for us running fewer cows and grazing longer leads to more net $ in the end. We have neighbours with different resources and they run very different ships.
I am a big fan of electric fencing when and where it works. Our goal is to feed our cowherd 45 days or less a year, and we usually hit the less target (but not always). I am not sure how many times I have been told that we don't get much winter here compared to location X, but to each his own. Everyone comes into new ways of doing things in their own time. That said, the way we do it is always right except in the occasions where it's not, and then it's a positive learning experience (the more expensive the better the lesson seems to stick).

 

[C Thompson]

Thanks for the honesty folks. I think that this is the best part of being part of such a diverse group that is spread over such a massive land base. I think it is important to question what works for us as well as for the neighbor but we will learn more and share more if we don't get so defensive. We are still pretty new at this ourselves and have a ways to go but what a ride it has been so far! I would like to share the reason why the slough hay works for us because that is what our cows ate until February. We changed a few things when we decided that the cows were going to work for us now and the first was to have them bred to calve later. We also shipped our calves in mid September so the cows can go into winter with enough fat on their backs to push them harder and utilize the poorer feed. We used electric fence to limit feed them on this slough grass to keep them from trampling and high grading so the daily feed is a balance of everything in the paddock. I will admit that the first year the continental type cows got thin and sorted themselves out at the preg test next fall but it wasn't too many and the ones that stayed just keep getting better at looking after themselves. I just wanted to say that when we make changes it always has an effect later and sometimes even the mistakes help teach us. I honestly now feel that we can afford to try even more things with the encouragement of others that have already done the work and freely shared the results because our input costs aren't as high as they used to be. Any more good ideas out there?

 

[Big Swede]

I have seen cases where hay that started out as money in the bank turned into little piles of rotted away mouse nest. In these situations it becomes a huge waste of money, time and fuel. If I can't feed up hay in two years or less it's time to sell hay, which I have done in the past.

By the way C Thompson I like the way you think. Keep us updated on your progress. It's always interesting to learn that there might be a better way to do things.

 

[Denny]

We will feed close to 200 days this year. You could have grazed out all winter this year but our grass would look like rough brown straw stems if I did'nt bale it green in the summer.Each area is different we run alot of rented ground and with that comes rules that won't allow much winter grazeing.

 

[starvin'dog]

I reckon our hay supply to our potato bin. You eat all the knobby, frozen and off types all winter and save the good ones, only to cover them back up with new crop, knobby potatoes.
Around here if you don't have your hay laid in fairly early you'll likely be cursing either deep snow in the winter or mud in the spring.
We can't count on grass until the first of june, can usually sell anything excess to help spring cash flow.

 

[jodywy]

We try to graze as long as we can, the wet sedges the cows will paw thru the snow till we get a good -20 or colder that usually crust up the snow. we found our wet pastures we can graze right down close as they come back every spring but we try to leave 40% to 60 % on our uplands. Winter comes and a deep snow cover comes with it.March and April bring warm sunny days but the cold night crust the snow hard enough you can take a team and slegh on top, sometimes even a tractor will be held up, the afternoon the sun reflects off more them melting.