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Haymaker

B

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
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22,792
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Big Muddy valley
You didn't answer me when I asked you this on another post


" Haymaker what are you buying feed for? You don't get any snow so you should be able to graze year round. We do when the snows not to deep.


Maybe more people could answer this from around the country so we can get a feel for things are done elsewhere. We will graze cows out as long as the snow is not to deep and they can eat enough to keep warm. Then we usually only supplemental feed.
Lots more people are using swath grazing or like NR bale grazing. I know that all things don't work in all areas but why can we graze 12 months of the year when areas that it hardly freezes are feeding hay. Are they running to many cows and don't stockpile any forage? What are your thoughts?
Haymaker in this country just about everybody thinks hay rings can be the most wasteful way to feed hay. Doesn't mean that they aren't used or have their place but sure aren't the be all end all.
 
We've swath-grazed for years now, and bale-grazed the last 2 years, from Jan-Feb until May 1st. Swath grazing has worked great, but as we've improved our pastures, thus increasing yields, we've been able to stockpile some grass. We have alot of native river-hill pasture, with deep canyons and coulees for shelter, and we intend to try running the cows out this winter, after they finish the swath-grazing. If that day falls in January, then that's when they'll go out in the hills.

We plan on stacking some bales in one of the coulees, because there's a fenced area to put them in. That way, if winter does get bad, and they think they need to come home or get pampered, we just have to go back in there and throw some of those bales out in rows and cut the twines. They can lick snow, or drink from a spring that runs year-round in the west end of the coulee. We can't find anyone to rent our extra half-section of pasture on the south side of that coulee, so it's soon to be deemed for stockpiling as well. If all goes right, they'll come out of those hills April 15th-May 1st, 2-3 weeks before calving just fat as ticks.

If anything goes wrong, they'll be mighty easy to persuade to follow a truck home in January or February, worst-case scenario of course. And no we're not tryin' to turn 'em into buffalo, we're just tryin' to do it cheaper.
 
That's a good question. All the Extension specialist say we should be able to graze 12 months here. Some try it but in reality very few are successful at it. I think there are several reasons for it.
1. I think it is more difficult to stockpile grass here than up north. It's more of an art here. In order to get quality stockpiled grass timing is critical. Under normal conditions here our improved grass ( Coastal bermuda) grows pretty fast. If you don't keep it cut ( for hay) every 28 days or grazed down to 4 - 6 inches it will get stemy and the quality will drop rapidly. So, if you start your stockpiling at the right time, maybe the first of Sept. and it doesn't frost too early or too late you can end up with good stockpiled grass.
2. A lot of guys here would rather depend on winter pasture. Broadcasting ryegrass and / or drilling Elbon rye into the bermudagrass once it has gone dormant. If you get moisture in the fall and get a good stand you can run about 2 cows per acre from mid Dec. until April.

But, it seems to me reality is never as smooth as theory. :wink: :wink:
 
BMR,

Dont get old haymaker stirred up he's likely away on another drinking binge with his bud Elmo.............. :roll: or else his day pass has ended......... :shock: :lol:
 
BMR, I try to be open minded to new ideas that make ranching cheaper, or just better. We also try to graze year round when the weather lets us, but we always have a backup plan as PureCountry mentioned. I think a lot of the difference you see has to do with the type of feed an area produces. Areas that typically have a lot of rain, grow washier taller grasses that don't hold their feed value over the winter months, unlike ours, and evidently your area does. We have a mixture of warm and cool season grasses (mostly cool), and cows do very well on them with a little supplement such as cow cake thrown in. We start feeding some cake after the middle of January on a normal year (whatever that is), and feed it thru mid-May. Mostly just to get the mag. in the cows, thru the cow cake during May. I doubt that Haymakers area has the shortgrass that we are accustomed to, and it doesn't hold the feed value over the winter months. See there are trade-offs no matter where you are. :wink: We freeze, and he feeds. :lol: A lot of things that go on are the result of tradition, and you cannot discount that fact in coming up with reasons for so and so.

PureCountry, and you other Canadians that mention cows licking snow: I am in the north country of the US, and we see plenty of winter too. I just could not see us not providing water here, especially if we were feeding hay to cows. I have seen where they go a couple days without watering when we have snow on the ground, and we are grazing, but NEVER when we feed hay. What is the difference that allows you guys to get away with that? Here, I am sure they would get compaction, and go off feed. And I have seen that, so that is why I am sure of it. Is your snow wetter or what? Just asking, not discounting your operations.
 
I doubt that Haymakers area has the shortgrass that we are accustomed to, and it doesn't hold the feed value over the winter months
Click to expand...

Tap- I think you hit the nail on the head...My sister is living down there in Haymakers country now, runs a few cows, and says that when that stuff down there drys out it is worse than straw for feed value- and about impossible to get cattle to eat...Apparently doesn't keep the punch like this shortgrass does....

We always try to have enough hay on hand to feed from Nov. to May if we have to (personally I prefer 2 years worth in the stack)-as have seen winter set in here in October and not leave til May with so much snow and ice that the cows can find nothing to graze...Sometimes graze into Feb- but usually always feed some a couple months before calving...

Just 60-70 miles south of me- there are quite a few that plan on grazing all winter and plan on only feeding hay for a few days if a real bad storm sets in...But they are down in the breaks where usually after a snowstorm the chinook winds come in and clear it off or at least the ridges....Usually get by with just a little caking...
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
You didn't answer me when I asked you this on another post


" Haymaker what are you buying feed for? You don't get any snow so you should be able to graze year round. We do when the snows not to deep.


Maybe more people could answer this from around the country so we can get a feel for things are done elsewhere. We will graze cows out as long as the snow is not to deep and they can eat enough to keep warm. Then we usually only supplemental feed.
Lots more people are using swath grazing or like NR bale grazing. I know that all things don't work in all areas but why can we graze 12 months of the year when areas that it hardly freezes are feeding hay. Are they running to many cows and don't stockpile any forage? What are your thoughts?
Haymaker in this country just about everybody thinks hay rings can be the most wasteful way to feed hay. Doesn't mean that they aren't used or have their place but sure aren't the be all end all.
Click to expand...

I did'nt see the other post where you asked me why I am buyin feed,and to be honest I dont remember sayin I was buyin any feed.
I hate to keep floggin a dead horse but, the weather dictates what I do to a large degree,when to plant what to plant,when to cut when to bale,some years we will bale in June,some we bale in Sept,a few years both.
These thin Hill country soils dont grow grass like the deep soiled northern states do,a couple weeks around here without moisture and grass starts browning up pretty good,and the nutritional value is low.
Tx is said to be in a continuous state of drought broken by floods,which is true we are either flooding or droughting,more droughting the last 8 years.
If I buy winter feed it will be cotton seed cubes @ 40%because the quality
of my hay is poor, not because I have to many cattle.
What I like to do is plant sorgum sudans early in April and bale it late June,depending on the tonnage,I will refertilize and cut again Sept,or run my cows on the stubble.
Late Sept/early Oct. I get the fields ready for oats/rye/wheat, if the rains are timely I do just fine,if the rains are not,I will usually market my steers that I back ground, early so I will have enough feed for my cows,these costal fields are pretty simple ,if it dont rain,they dont grow,I guess we fight the droughts like some farther north fight the winters.Lots of variations to my operation Bmr,as I have always said weather pretty much dictates what I do..............good luck

PS since Im not very educated I hafta keep it as simple as I can :wink:
 
I get to stockpile a little grass in some years, but it doesn't last very long. And there's really not much to this east Texas grass after a few hard frosts hit it. Protein drops so fast that even if we have the roughage, we still have to supplement protein. Even for dry cows.

And to be honest, many of us probably stock too heavily to do much stockpiling in the fall. I know that in many years recently, I end up having to start putting out hay before frost because I'm out of grass. Call it poor management, I suppose, but land costs dictate that we get a lot of production out of an acre.

With a decent year, I can winter a cow with the hay off of one acre, one cutting. And I can do it without protein supplement if the weather cooperates and if the cows are dry. I'm sure there's a lot of room for improvement, though.
 
BMR I think the biggest obstacle to people doing things is the 'Can't' syndrome starts with neighbors or people on here bleating away about you can't do this you can't do that and it pretty soon morphs into the 'I Can't' state of mind. The biggest compliment ever paid to m,e was in Oberlin, Kansas-an old Kansas rancher said you Canadians are better at the business than we are to be able to survive in that harsher climate-food for thought. As for licking snow-we've never had a cow impact on it yet-it really helps us scatter our feeding areas and get manure on all the pastures. THe old giorls might be restless for a few days when they switch over but they get over it-can't be worse than sucking freezing water up when it's -40. Maybe we just run tougher more adapted cows-thats why those ballerina EXT's can't hack it.
 
We were on a ranch in the Powder River breaks of Wyoming. Some of those cows wintered on snow. They were being caked every other day and were grazing.

They didn't die from eating snow. But they didn't live very well either.
We would ride and bring poor doer's into our hospital bunch at the house.
Guess where most of the 'poor doer's' came from? The part of the ranch where the cattle were licking snow and not getting a good drink of water.
 
I would bet there is a differance in the moisture content of the snow our snow here is genarally heavy and damp in drier climates maybe its more like powder.We grazed cows out until the middle of december the last 2 years 3 years ago we got a heavy wet snow then it melted down to about 3 " of Ice what winter grazing there was was'nt accessable to the cows until april when the ice was gone.Our snow useally is damp then it partially melts than freeze's hard and crusty cows can't lick or graze through it.We have no grain farmer's anywhere close so any type's of straw or stubble are'nt accessable.We bought corn screening's last winter for $54 a ton delivered cheaper than hay cost if we are short on hay I will buy more screenings to feed. This year our chopping corn is a loss due to drought what is there we will graze in december we may get by grazeing into january that way. But then again what do I know I'm not from a "GREAT RANCHING STATE" ,I raise beef you raise beef that makes us both rancher's no matter where we live is'nt that right Northern Rancher.And just because I'm 1500 miles south of you does'nt mean we don't have winters....I bet there just as tough as yours.
 
Well like I said maybe a few generations for hardy nonpampered cattle will get you by some of that problem-you've seen pics of our cows in the spring they looked pretty rolly poly to me. I think alot of money is spent on supplements,pour ons etc. just trying to get the sorry ten percent to look like the 90 percent who don't need it. There's alot of things you see working through groups of cattle all spring and summer from several different outfits. This particular group were in now has two sets of heifers from HIGH profile places-theres maybe 5 percent of them are dead haired-do you revamp your mineral program to prop them up or just can their sorry asses-I think you know what I'd do. One year we hit bad weather anmd never got one set of cows poured in the fall-a small number got lousy but the rest were no different than the cows that we did. We haven't abandoned pouring but I bet we could.
 
You do what you have to do Dennymeister I'm too busy tooling around in my truck to worry bout what your up to. Snow is snow-it changes everywhere from day to day from storm to storm. I really don't think our cows are licking a superior brand of Canadian snow-I think cow type and selection has alot to do with it. Of course if it all melts and turns to ice you have to supply water-sheesh were not retarded up north here.
 
Northern Rancher said:
You do what you have to do Dennymeister I'm too busy tooling around in my truck to worry bout what your up to. Snow is snow-it changes everywhere from day to day from storm to storm. I really don't think our cows are licking a superior brand of Canadian snow-I think cow type and selection has alot to do with it. Of course if it all melts and turns to ice you have to supply water-sheesh were not retarded up north here.
Click to expand...

Know one was talking to you anyhow your not that important.I was just giveing some thought on how cattle are ran here and I did'nt think anyone was Retarded.
 

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