• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

he lays down when saddled/mounted

Help Support Ranchers.net:

gcreekrch said:
Without getting myself in hot water again I'd like to clarify a couple of things I've posted
BlkBuckaroo stated " Do what you have to do to get the kinda horse you want to ride" --- I couldn't agree with you more. There are a lot of clinicians out there that can help most anyone improve their horsemanship. I've found that if you learn 1 thing from any educational tool you use it was well worth it.
I do believe that "respect" and "consequences" are 2 words that don't seem to be used together much anymore whether it be horses, dogs, kids, or in some cases ourselves.
By respect I mean just that. It has no connection to fear. All fear does is create contempt.
By consequences I mean if you don't have respect, you WILL have to deal with the consequences. ie: If a horse throws itself.. no matter how gently he does it, he will learn that it is not an acceptable habit. It is up to him to find out how easy or difficult the lesson will be.
Choclab asked " How in the hell can you compare spanking a kid to a spoiled,lazy sob horse who lays down ( which is a reason for disapline)?
The whole animal kingdom (which we are a part of) disciplines their young for doing things that are unacceptable. How we acchieve that is up to us. (although I do believe that most animals are more consistant and better teachers of the unacceptable than we are) My belief is that the same rules of respect and consequence applies with our young too. The way a lot of the youth are today it seems this is a disappearing concept. For those of you that grew up in the early days of Sesame Street, you might remember the " what happens next " segments, compliments of Bert & Ernie. Those three words have something to do with everything WE do every day.
Back to my first post, if I hurt anyone's feelings or pride, please accept my sincere apologies. I was stating my opinion on the matter at hand.
Again: Do what you have to do to get the kinda horse you want to ride.
Well Said
Yours Truly, gcreekrch :)
Click to expand...
Saw some pictures of your ranch on the gallery the other day,nice outfit,your very lucky to live in such a nice place.And i also agree with you!!!!!
 
this is really turning out to be a kinda good thread!!

i totally agree w/FH (BTW---HOW ARE YOU ???? i'll pm tomorrow) on the young ones. ya don't cinch 'em up tight, it's gradual.

BUT....this guy's been around a little, and i'm thinking he needs maybe only a dose (or 2) of "consequences for actions" (that's how i train my dogs), but HE has to understand that the consequence for the action of lieing down when mounted is NOT GOOD.

or, he has to understand that NOT lieing down results in GOOD things.

ie either negative reinforcement or positive. i will ALWAYS try to train with positive reinforcement, which brings me to this problem: if i cinch the saddle a bit "loose" and immediately push him out on a longe-line (no round pen here ppl), isn't that, to his mind a "negative"?

i mean, he mostly has laid around w/his buddy for years, so why work?

or do we go to "MORE" negative, ie, cinch him up, walk him a minute, tighten cinch, mount, he goes down, put a spur (from ATOP) to him and have a rodeo?

so help me some more if you all don't mind--i can get into my GSD's head easy, but this frickin horse.....my 45 watt bulb still needs to go on :? i'm probly overthinkin' it, as usual...
 
codymccue said:
used to buy spoiled broke horses of a canner friend of mine...only thing wrong with em was between their ears...
trick I learned from an old hand has served me well twice...once on this type of trouble and once on a mare that would rear over backwards...

when that hoss goes down,make im stay there...for hours...he won't be as likely to do it again...
leave halter and lead on and when he lays down,pull his head to the side,flatten im out and give the lead a couple of wraps on the horn.He'll decide for himself that layin down with a saddle on isn't for him if he can't get back up when HE wants.
mind yer on level ground and use an old saddle there could be some squirming involved.
I always found that them makin up their minds about somethin sticks harder than if you do it for them.
Click to expand...

and this might be what i go with. reminds me of a gentleman fr wyoming and how he dealt with bad mules. and goes with the "consequences for actions" mindset i lean toward.

so then after i let him soak for a few hours on the nice (well, not green yet , grass), let him up, tighten the cinch up and go to ridin'?

i LIKE this solution...
 
Chuckie said:
codymccue said:
used to buy spoiled broke horses of a canner friend of mine...only thing wrong with em was between their ears...
trick I learned from an old hand has served me well twice...once on this type of trouble and once on a mare that would rear over backwards...

when that hoss goes down,make im stay there...for hours...he won't be as likely to do it again...
leave halter and lead on and when he lays down,pull his head to the side,flatten im out and give the lead a couple of wraps on the horn.He'll decide for himself that layin down with a saddle on isn't for him if he can't get back up when HE wants.
mind yer on level ground and use an old saddle there could be some squirming involved.
I always found that them makin up their minds about somethin sticks harder than if you do it for them.
Click to expand...

and this might be what i go with. reminds me of a gentleman fr wyoming and how he dealt with bad mules. and goes with the "consequences for actions" mindset i lean toward.

so then after i let him soak for a few hours on the nice (well, not green yet , grass), let him up, tighten the cinch up and go to ridin'?

i LIKE this solution...
Click to expand...


In my opinion, YES, just like nothing ever happened. Also in my opinion, if it's done right the first time and he does it again--- get him on the first truck to Dr. Ballards 8)
PS I may at the first cinch him like I was going for a ride and let him deal with that little mental block at the same time
 
as far as the cinching goes, my, IDK, "usual ideololgy" (sorry, been reading too much Tom Clancy lately), is snug it up, at worst walk the horse about 30 secs to a minute, stop tighten up a little more, pull out forelegs (for really--OMG, just thought of this with him--i'll try it, haven't before) to set the girth, then tighten it up to "riding" tightness.

who knows what he's used to being off the track, AND he has quarter-cracks in both forefeet as of now. we'll see what the owner wants to do on that. but the initial OP stands...quarter cracks or not, that's NOT why he's being passive/aggressive.
 
Chuckie said:
codymccue said:
used to buy spoiled broke horses of a canner friend of mine...only thing wrong with em was between their ears...
trick I learned from an old hand has served me well twice...once on this type of trouble and once on a mare that would rear over backwards...

when that hoss goes down,make im stay there...for hours...he won't be as likely to do it again...
leave halter and lead on and when he lays down,pull his head to the side,flatten im out and give the lead a couple of wraps on the horn.He'll decide for himself that layin down with a saddle on isn't for him if he can't get back up when HE wants.
mind yer on level ground and use an old saddle there could be some squirming involved.
I always found that them makin up their minds about somethin sticks harder than if you do it for them.
Click to expand...

and this might be what i go with. reminds me of a gentleman fr wyoming and how he dealt with bad mules. and goes with the "consequences for actions" mindset i lean toward.

so then after i let him soak for a few hours on the nice (well, not green yet , grass), let him up, tighten the cinch up and go to ridin'?

i LIKE this solution...
Click to expand...

if he's a trained hoss snug him up tight like you mean it right off the hop.you don't have to cut im in half but make it tighter than usual.you WANT him to pull his trick.If he lays there snugged up it will be a better lesson than if he's semi comfortable.
remember,the hole idea is to make HIM decide that laying down with a saddle on is bad.

mind-a real spoiled one might not want to get up after and play like you kilt em.scoop a palmful of water outta the trough and pour into his nose...he'll be up faster than you ever seen.

and like my GrandDad always said-lots of good horses in the world-no sense riskin your life for a bad one...
 
:agree: AMEN

this has been a great thread, my wife had a little pinto mare was a real good trail horse, after having the winter off she decided to get a little bucky her being a little horse and me 6'3" and 240lbs she would keep going down, until she would automatically lay down to get me off, so i left her laying down stripped my saddle off and tied her up, left her laying in the corral. after that never had any problems with her doing that again. perfect little horse. so i agree consequences for actions works very well.
 
just a non-update: between travelling for business and crappy weather, haven't had a chance to "apply" any "consequences". however, the coming week looks promising, shall update!!
 
When I was MUCH younger,and much more foolish,had one to lie down.
2nt time,stepped on the saddle horn and made him think I was gonna beat him to death.. That did work..All I'm gonna say..
 
Blkbuckaroo said:
"Waterboarding" Should of thought of that. :lol:
Click to expand...

isn't that against the law unless you're CIA, FBI, NSA, or an MP? personally, i don't see anything wrong with having muzzled K9's in to encourage the bad guys to talk, but that's just me....:)

anyhoo-, looks like tomorrow will be the day we attempt the lie-down tie-down. Cait and i have rehearsed how it's *supposed* to go, but i have one BURNING question: how long do i let him soak?

til he quits trying to get up and then a few minutes more? that's what i'm thinkin'.

the plan is, after the first go-round, we'll try re-mounting, then re-tieing if he lies down again. is this smart? or should we wait til next time? from the looks of the weather, we won't be playing again til maybe next weekend...

oh!! if, after the first go-round and the remount (if that's what you all recommend), he does NOT try to go down, just go ahead and ride as usual? it's not like we give him a lather-producing workout...
 
leave him down for a couple of hours or more...I left the rearing mare in my avatar pic all day...monitor him so he doesn't hurt himself...but usually once he is resigned to his fate he'll just lay and wait.Who ever gets him up will be his savior.This should be a one time thing.
My ol' uncle left his good ropin horse in the lane over night...my cousin rides him pickup now...
don't waste the lesson being soft.Layin there thinkin bout it won't hurt him a bit.
when you get him up,work him proper,remember that he still did it wrong this time.If he does it right next time,treat him like a king.
Rewarding good behavior goes a Hell of a lot farther than punishing bad,and what yer doing is not punishment ,its correction.There is a huge difference!!!
 
Chuckie i was just BS-ing about the waterboarding Was filling a little cynical,if Loomixguy tried it and it worked,then that's just another way to do it.I would'nt do it.As far as tying down,never had to tie one,so i'm interested in the outcome.I'd say soon as you get him up,saddle and line out see if he's any better.Then pull him out later in the day,saddle him and see if he wants to go down again after being tied previously.Let us know!!!We all have alot of time invested in this horse!LOL!! :lol: :lol:
 
well, here's what happened: got him out, brushed (a little!) of his winter hair off, saddled him, then (with the lead rope snapped at the bottom of the halter), started to mount.

well, he went down, of course, but he was down on a slope with his back downhill and his feet uphill, and while i did try to pull his head around, and did to a small extent, and he did lie there for just a minute, he was able to get his head around in front enough to get up.

so we did it again, and again he ended up with his feet uphill and i still had the lead rope snapped at the bottom of the halter, and while i pulled his head around, it wasn't enough to stop him getting up (should have had a rope on both sides of the halter to get enough pull to the side).

HOWEVER: i half-mounted him a number of times after, and he never offered to go down again, instead he tried moving off. now he has shown that he will fight a lead rope when he's tied to the horse hitch. he snapped a heavy-duty brass snap :cry:, but not the bull-snap, and he's not gonna pull the hitching post out (it's telephone poles sunk 36" deep, with a horizontal pole attached w/3" wide iron/bolts).

the interesting thing about this guy is that he's not being "hateful"--he's just reacting to what he's known in the past. whatever that is. it kinda amazes me that he's willing to fight being tied, but he generally doesn't. i'd bet that if i put him in cross-ties, there wouldn't be a problem.

and he took a nap while i combed/pulled his mane after all the "drama". which there wasn't much of really. i never had more than a halter/lead rope on him (other than the saddle blanket/saddle), and that was plenty to control him--he just needs some consistent work on these issues. i think.

ideas? advice? you all have a lot of time invested here, ya know :wink:
 
If he's that frightful @ being tied...then something 'bad' happened to him while tied.

Be patient here as a tied ,scared horse can be a dangerous horse.

He's just reacting to his memory...and you remember they are animals programmed for flight in the face of danger. They can't help it.

Do you have any way to get any past history on this horse....that may help you get him over some ' fears'.?
 
i'd go after 1 trubby at a time.
i think if you go back,i mentioned level ground and "flatten him out"meaning he has to be on his side when you bring his head around.his head needs to end up over his front shoulder more or less.
It sounds to me like yer a bit tentative and need to firm up a bit,no disrespect meant.

maybe we should go at this from another angle...
does he always go down on the same side?
 
This poor horse is gonna be so screwed up by the time we get done " fixin' him" for this person!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

Latest posts

Top