Heat Detection

[EbarS]

Hi
Stumbled across this site and been watching it for a while, looks like some pretty decent folks on here and lots of knowledge,What makes it even better is most are willing to share.

I am running a small herd of Registered British White cows and can no longer use the bull that I used in the past (getting too close to inbreeding) and cannot justify purchasing a new bull such a small herd.(15) and plan on A.I. ing them.
What methods of heat detection do you folks find to be most effecient.
Yes I know that nothing beats a good bull but!!!!!!!

Thanks in advance
Ed

 

[Justin]

sittin' on your horse and watchin' them. time consuming, but most efficient.

 

[Whitewing]

sittin' on your horse and watchin' them. time consuming, but most efficient.

I was going to say something similar because I know nothing about AI. In my humble opinion, when the bull's nose appears to be attached to the cow's rear end, you're probably looking at heat. :wink:

 

[per]

sittin' on your horse and watchin' them. time consuming, but most efficient.

I was going to say something similar because I know nothing about AI. In my humble opinion, when the bull's nose appears to be attached to the cow's rear end, you're probably looking at heat. :wink:

Then a gomer bull could be used. Welcome EbarS.

 

[High Plains]

With 15 head and no bull to take care of the cows that don't stick with A.I., I'm concerned that you will suffer greatly from a typical 70% conception rate. With that small of a herd, percentages tend to get inflated pretty quickly. I think you need a bull or else you will have to heat detect into the second cycle and be prepared to A.I. again. Maybe others have had good luck without the use of a cleanup bull? Just things to ponder.

 

[alabama]

You can buy a good yearling bull for $1500 to $2000 and he will gain 5 to 600 pounds by the time he is 3 years old. Then sell him for ground beef.
Lets say you pay $1800 for a good bull and use him two years to retain heifers. You can sell a 2100 pound bull for $1300 at hambuger prices. The you have $500 to bred 15 cows twice or $17 a calf.
If you AI it will cost you $20 for semen and another $15 for an AI tech then if you sinc them up it runs another $20 a head. So AI could cost you $55 or more a calf.
I think a bull on 15 head is cheaper.
Now that said, If you AI then you can get a better bull but then what do you plan to do with the calves to cover the extra cost.

 

[mytfarms]

With 15 head and no bull to take care of the cows that don't stick with A.I., I'm concerned that you will suffer greatly from a typical 70% conception rate. With that small of a herd, percentages tend to get inflated pretty quickly. I think you need a bull or else you will have to heat detect into the second cycle and be prepared to A.I. again. Maybe others have had good luck without the use of a cleanup bull? Just things to ponder.

Well, I custom A.I., but we've got some good bulls in our battery too. The way we think works best for us is to A.I. on two heat cycles. I think that's "fair" to our cows, and helps with the % that stick A.I. After everything has been through two cycles, we turn out the bull. The bull is basically our gauge of breds. We kick them out after one or two cycles with the bull. That way, I can give my customers a pretty sure indicator that their cow is good to go. But with 15 head, you can justify a $2000 bull really quick.

 

[EbarS]

With 15 head and no bull to take care of the cows that don't stick with A.I., I'm concerned that you will suffer greatly from a typical 70% conception rate. With that small of a herd, percentages tend to get inflated pretty quickly. I think you need a bull or else you will have to heat detect into the second cycle and be prepared to A.I. again. Maybe others have had good luck without the use of a cleanup bull? Just things to ponder.

That was a concern of mine(the low conception percentage rate) however I almost am willing to take that chance for a couple of yrs as I build quality and quanity.
There are very few Whites in my area and those are not top quality, and traveling across 3 states to pay top dollar for a bull is not feasable at this time leaving AI as the most econimal way to improve.

 

[katrina]

We lutelyse our hiefiers and the cows we A.I for bulls.... We breed everything that comes into heat and then wait ten days and lutelyse again everything we didn't breed...We have very good conception rates..If we miss them it's because we couldn't get the cow to cycle or missed it... Some cows are very suttle in showing heat... If I was to do anything differant is to use a gomer....

Also we use back tags.... The Kamars are the ones we like as that we ai late June and cows fighting flys will make the others turn orange...

 

[alabama]

The more cows you have cycling at one time the better your heat detection will go.

 

[EbarS]

You can buy a good yearling bull for $1500 to $2000 and he will gain 5 to 600 pounds by the time he is 3 years old. Then sell him for ground beef.
Lets say you pay $1800 for a good bull and use him two years to retain heifers. You can sell a 2100 pound bull for $1300 at hambuger prices. The you have $500 to bred 15 cows twice or $17 a calf.
If you AI it will cost you $20 for semen and another $15 for an AI tech then if you sinc them up it runs another $20 a head. So AI could cost you $55 or more a calf.
I think a bull on 15 head is cheaper.
Now that said, If you AI then you can get a better bull but then what do you plan to do with the calves to cover the extra cost.

Remember I said RESISTERED stock!!!

 

[mytfarms]

You can buy a good yearling bull for $1500 to $2000 and he will gain 5 to 600 pounds by the time he is 3 years old. Then sell him for ground beef.
Lets say you pay $1800 for a good bull and use him two years to retain heifers. You can sell a 2100 pound bull for $1300 at hambuger prices. The you have $500 to bred 15 cows twice or $17 a calf.
If you AI it will cost you $20 for semen and another $15 for an AI tech then if you sinc them up it runs another $20 a head. So AI could cost you $55 or more a calf.
I think a bull on 15 head is cheaper.
Now that said, If you AI then you can get a better bull but then what do you plan to do with the calves to cover the extra cost.

Remember I said RESISTERED stock!!!

Boy, you're in a lot of trouble! In such case, go to A.I. breeding all year round and have a continuous calving program. You can eliminate opens, and make sure you pamper your cows. With that said, I'm just being a butt. With either A.I. or a bull, be prepared to haul some opens. But a bull will greatly reduce opens. With only 15 head, you can't really say, "I can't afford a bull". More, you can't afford NOT to have a bull. A.I. is just a tool, not the end all be all. "Inbreeding" as you call it isn't something to be avoided at all costs. It simply brings out genetic infirmities in a certain line of cattle. If push comes to shove, why not A.I. your cows and clean up with your current bull? If you get 11 or 12 cows stuck, your bull only has 3 or 4 to breed, and you greatly reduce inbreeding right there. Don't be afraid to try something new. It might really work.

 

[Anonymous]

You can buy a good yearling bull for $1500 to $2000 and he will gain 5 to 600 pounds by the time he is 3 years old. Then sell him for ground beef.
Lets say you pay $1800 for a good bull and use him two years to retain heifers. You can sell a 2100 pound bull for $1300 at hambuger prices. The you have $500 to bred 15 cows twice or $17 a calf.
If you AI it will cost you $20 for semen and another $15 for an AI tech then if you sinc them up it runs another $20 a head. So AI could cost you $55 or more a calf.
I think a bull on 15 head is cheaper.
Now that said, If you AI then you can get a better bull but then what do you plan to do with the calves to cover the extra cost.

Remember I said RESISTERED stock!!!

Boy, you're in a lot of trouble! In such case, go to A.I. breeding all year round and have a continuous calving program. You can eliminate opens, and make sure you pamper your cows. With that said, I'm just being a butt. With either A.I. or a bull, be prepared to haul some opens. But a bull will greatly reduce opens. With only 15 head, you can't really say, "I can't afford a bull". More, you can't afford NOT to have a bull. A.I. is just a tool, not the end all be all. "Inbreeding" as you call it isn't something to be avoided at all costs. It simply brings out genetic infirmities in a certain line of cattle. If push comes to shove, why not A.I. your cows and clean up with your current bull? If you get 11 or 12 cows stuck, your bull only has 3 or 4 to breed, and you greatly reduce inbreeding right there. Don't be afraid to try something new. It might really work.

I agree MYT-- and he might end up with one of the first linebred registered British White programs out there- with a line of cattle that are in demand the same as some of the other breeds linebred cattle are...

 

[EbarS]

I cannot use the bull that currently bred my cows as I didn't own the bull and used him this spring on a breed back program from the folks I bought the cows and hiefers from, he has since been sold.

Thanks for the advice though, all is apprecieated(sp)

As far as the cost of AI ing all I will have to pay is for the semen as my grandson in law will do it for nothing.

 

[mytfarms]

OK, you have to pay for semen. I assume your grandson has all the tools and the semen tank? That's fine. However, why not ask to lease a bull from the folks you got your cows from? If the question is posed properly, you can do something like that for a decent price. Some will not lease, but offer a buy back program (is that what you had?). I reckon don't fix it if it ain't broke.

 

[leanin' H]

I like the kamars for heat detection but nothing beats just watching the bunch. Get them in a acre lot and when ya go out to heat detect, get them all up and moving around. Then watch em'. Lutalyse works well to bring em' in but ya still need to see standing heat in order to breed them. I think if your going to only AI you'd be better off to go with year round breeding. And then when your numbers get higher you can buy a BW bull and cleanup what ya miss. Good luck and welcome.

 

[EbarS]

I like the kamars for heat detection but nothing beats just watching the bunch. Get them in a acre lot and when ya go out to heat detect, get them all up and moving around. Then watch em'. Lutalyse works well to bring em' in but ya still need to see standing heat in order to breed them. I think if your going to only AI you'd be better off to go with year round breeding. And then when your numbers get higher you can buy a BW bull and cleanup what ya miss. Good luck and welcome.

Leaning H.

Thank you, Your one of the few who addressed the question asked!

 

[per]

EbarS ...What methods of heat detection do you folks find to be most effecient

Justin ...sittin' on your horse and watchin' them. time consuming, but most efficient.

Whitewing ... In my humble opinion, when the bull's nose appears to be attached to the cow's rear end, you're probably looking at heat

per ...Then a gomer bull could be used.

Leanin' H ...I like the kamars for heat detection but nothing beats just watching the bunch

The rest of the folks gave you honest advise that just might be more important than the original question.

 

[EbarS]

EbarS ...What methods of heat detection do you folks find to be most effecient

Justin ...sittin' on your horse and watchin' them. time consuming, but most efficient.

Whitewing ... In my humble opinion, when the bull's nose appears to be attached to the cow's rear end, you're probably looking at heat

per ...Then a gomer bull could be used.

Leanin' H ...I like the kamars for heat detection but nothing beats just watching the bunch

The rest of the folks gave you honest advise that just might be more important than the original question.

Per, while they gave advice,The advice given did not fit my situation which apparently I failed to fully explain!

Leaning H took the question as asked by me and did not slip to the right, heading in a different direction.

 

[alabama]

I run a small seedstock operation and AI all I can. I then run one of my bulls in to clean up andy cows that did not take AI.
You know producing seedstock is great but when it comes right down to it we are still just cow-calf guys and every cow has to give me a calf every year. I can't aford to run open cows seedstock of not.
With 15 cows and selling seed stock you should have yearling bulls every year so just hold one back each year to clead up your cows and sell him a long yearling when he is done. Use a calf whos momma you are sure you berd AI.