Herd management

[Big Muddy rancher]

I don't want this thread to get to "Who right and who's wrong" I would like to hear why people manage their herds as they do.

I calve in April , Brand in June Breed for about 50 days then pick up my bulls. I vaccianate my calves at branding with 7 WAY Somnus and Pyrmid 4 + Presponse and agian when I wean in Later October. I split my first calver the older cows and bred hfrs. off from the middle aged herd and keep them closer in case i have to feed earlier and I move the middle aged herd into grass that has been save for winter grazing. I graze as long as I can with only canola meal and mineral for supplement. If the snow get to deep or i run out of grass then the cows come closer for hay.
What sparked this thread was a visit with a friend that calves in June and leaves the calves on all winter. They graze out and supplement with Canola pellets or alfalfa and hay if needed. They wean in April.

They are in the Cypress Hills and I'm in the Big Muddy. They might have a more temperate climate and a bit more rain but other then that fairly similar.
I wean early to get my cows in shape for winter and they don't.

What do you guys and gals do? Lets hear

 

[jigs]

this sounds horrid, but my operation has too bend around a full time job and a farming habit!
eventually we will get to the point of being self employed, and then the cows will be put first.

I like to calve in November, December. simply because it is a dry cold, where springs here are a wet cold. plus the calves are bigger when I goto grass, so they take a little pressure off the cows by grazing. and Nov - Feb is a down time with the hay operation, so I can take off time as I need too.

Weaning is a bit of a challenge. Late August, early Sept. is when they HAVE to come out. if I wait till we start picking corn they will stay there till we get done picking.......which this year was the 15th of Nov.


I band at weaning, and give a 7 way shot, and sell when I feel I have them started good, and the transition stress is over, plus have some heifers sorted out for replacements.


I sucks having to half ash your own operation to satisfy a boss, but so far it is working.

 

[rainie]

We've done the Jan.- Feb. work your butt off for the cows thing. sold alot of high priced 700 lb. calves in the fall. Also gone the fall calving route. Thought we were doing things right as the bills were getting paid and we were expanding in land and cattle pretty quick. At the time maybe this was okay because fuel etc. was cheap compared to now and I was also a lot younger. Should have been working on improving the quantity and quality of our grass throughout the whole farm instead of trying to raise a big calf. Now I curse a 6-700 lb calf in the fall. He's going to be too big after I grass him the following summer. I want a 4-500 lber instead. Can winter him on his Mom hopefully for most of the winter, depending on the cow.We bale graze, so can increase our soil fertility wherever we set up the bales. Don't need to haul manure from the corral to the far end of the farm. The manure is already there. Expenses are pretty much nill except for the hay for a cowcalf pair. Electric fencer costs about a 1.00 a month for hydro and have a solar water system. No stress on the calves, so very little, if any, pneumonia. Lot of extra free time because I;m not spending all day pushing and blowing snow to get to the hay stack, just to go and drop hay in the bale feeders for the cows.Which doesn't help improve the grass for the rest of the farm.Any cow that can't maintain her body condition while nursing her calf for the winter is put on our hit list and will eventually be replaced. We can't go to June calving for my area because of the extreme heat and humidity and bugs that we can get puts a lot of stress on these young calves during the summer. April calves can handle this easier in my opinion.....Just my thoughts, everyone's situation and environment is different. Can graze froze green grass till later into the fall and winter (depending on the amount of snow) and start grazing earlier in the spring, because we're increasing our soil fertility and subsequently quality of grass.And decreasing our hay expense at the same time. If you have healthy grass,hopefully your profitability will be better. If your grass is poor, your profitability is pretty much nill.Should have been working on improving our grass for the past 20 years instead of buying more land and trying to raise 700 lb. calves to sell in the fall.Lesson learned. Can have the whole place bale grazed on once in about 7 years, and then we should be back on track for the next generation.

 

[Anonymous]

Start calving about the 20th of March- usually try to brand calves born before I haul to pasture around the 1st of May- because its easier....Then brand any calves born after that sometime in June...Calves get 7-way at birth when tagged (band most then too)-- then 7 way Somnus at branding....Bulls run 90 days or so...Calves get 7 Way Somnus and Pyramid 4 + Presponse the 1st of October- Wean around the end of October...

Usually move the cows on to stubble fields and fall pasture in Sept or Oct- run them there until the grass gets short or the snow starts getting too deep...I just hauled them off Thursday...I'll try to run them on the hay meadows until sometime in Jan or Feb-- and start feeding then if I don't get forced to before by the weather/snow.....I like to have them in good shape to calve....

Mine have free choice mineral-- and if the quality of the grass is bad in the winter I'll throw out a few 20% Smartlic Protein Tubs- because they're easier....Mine all run together- old- young -in between---just because its easier....When we hauled them the other day- they were all still in great shape-and my replacement heifer calves which already are on the hay meadows look like little Pillsbury doughboys :wink:

 

[George]

I have been calving April / May but have toyed with the idea of going two or three weeks earlier as we seem to be getting very nice March weather. I just keep thinking if I move them up and then get bad weather I could be in trouble.

I tag each calf at birth and the tags are the cow's number with an extra digit for the year born - - - Hiefers taged in the left ear bulls in the right.

I run the cows thru the chute every spring and us a pour on wormer . In the fall I bring the herd to the barn and feed just enough grain to teach the calves to eat from a bunk. After about a week I put a creep gate up to devide the feeding area in half. The calves learn quickly to go the their side and not have the cows knocking them out of the way. We wait till harvest is over then run them thru casturate, Vacinate, worm again, brand any replacements that are going to be kept. The cows are preg checked and any not bred or that have a claf in the botton 10% are held about two weeks with feed then shipped.

As they leave the chute they are all comingled again but at the evening feeding that day after the calves have seperated themselves the creep gate is closed and they have fence line contact but do not go back to the cows. The cows will ball for about 3 days but the calves normally quit after one day.

During the pasture season I normally move the herd every three days. My cattle are so used to me walking thru them with a treat ( a couple of slabs of hay ) that as soon as they see me they come to me. I used to carry broken ears of corn but have not picked ear corn for about 30 years - - - when I can get alfalfa cubes at a reasonable cost I use them for treats but they have gotten to high so I just used slabs of hay. It seems anything will work.

During winter I feed round bales on concrete. This year I planted about 75 acres of winter rye to supplement my hay - - - it took off great but with the dry weather it has not gotten big enough to pasture yet ( I'm not sure ti will ) I also give a couple of pounds of corn each day and they have free choice mineral all year.

Often this time of year you can pick up good short bred cows very cheaply - - - these get worked the day they arrive and are held seperate for a couple of weeks then moved into the herd. Some of them go crazy for the mineral for a couple of weeks and many of them are scared to death of people but they very quickly get used to my management. Many of them are sold again in April when everyone is looking for short bred cows or pairs and I have sometimes been able to double my money in just a few months.

Hope this helps I'm looking forward to other responces.

 

[I Luv Herfrds]

We start our first year heifers at the end of Febuary, sometimes they don't start til in march . Our main herd starts calving the first of March. We band, tag and dehorn the calves at birth. At branding the calves are give a 7-Way and a Vista 5sq. The cows were given the Vista 5sq and another vaccine can't remember. They are then turned out to pasture. The late calvers are kept in until they are done and turned out.
Move them to the summer pasture is when conditions are right.
Round up is done just a few days before the first of October.
Replacements this year were given the 7-Way with pasturella, Bovi Shield Gold 5, Bangs and poured. Main herd was poured. First year heifers are poured and given Scour Bos 9.
The first of Febuary the main herd and first year heifers are repoured and given Scour Bos 9 shot. Second booster for heifers. Move to the calving ground.
Depending upon the weather we normally start feeding the beginning of November and feed til they are turned out to pasture. Have mineral and salt all year round.
Just before weaning in September we start feeding the pairs a round bale every 3-4 days. Helps get the calves onto feed.

 

[Texan]

We moved our calving forward several years ago. We were calving in January, but moved it up and now target March 1 to start. That usually lets us have some green stuff for wet cows to pick on and lowers protein costs a lot.

In an ideal year, I don't have to feed any protein to cows because the hay is usually good enough to winter dry cows. Of course, it's been several years since we've had that 'ideal' year. The last two years, hay was sorry because it was so dry. This year was plenty wet and we've got lots of hay but it's sorry because it was too mature.

Additionally, that March 1 calving date lets me turn out bulls when I'm going into the best grass of the year. If there's a better time than best grass to get a cow bred, I've never found it.

Most calves are born in March and April and we brand in early May right before bull turnout. Calves get branded, knife-cut, poured, Ultra Choice 8 and BoviShield Gold 5. Horns are either burned or pasted.

Weaning is anywhere from September to November, depending on how much rain we get. We made it to November this year, but the last two years it was in September and October. We usually try to start caking pairs a couple of weeks before weaning so that the calves can learn to eat from momma.

On the day of weaning, calves get poured, a One Shot Ultra 8 (that's the Pfizer 8-way with pasturella), another BoviShield Gold 5 and they go on grass hay and a soft 20% all-natural cube and loose mineral. They spend the first few nights in traps right across the fence from the cows before going out into a bigger trap after the cows move off.

We try to booster three to four weeks later with another Ultra Choice 8 and another BoviShield Gold 5. They get poured again and any horns that have regrown are tipped at boostering time.

After boostering I usually try to switch them over to a 38% cottonseed cake and kick them out in a bigger pasture with a little grass hay.

The cows get a BoviShield Gold FP5 +VL5 in January and poured with generic ivermectin in May. That's usually the only time the cows go through the chute. I tried preg checking in the fall, but I wasn't selling them until Spring anyway, so now I just watch for heats all winter and write their tags down.

It's interesting to see how everybody does things. This is a good thread, Big Muddy.

 

[CattleArmy]

Before I returned to my parents operation we calved in Januaray. The weather then almost seems milder then that in March and April now. The first year we were home we calved our cows then and then my folks started in March. That left us with a long long calving season. So the next year we set our cows to calve at the same time as my parents. We miss the added weight at weening time but sure get a lot more sleep.

The years we have recip cows for embryos we calve those cows from the middle of January til around the first of Feb. Since we work with bull producers that is the calving time they desire. The downside to that is we are back to the long calving season. The cold weather in January is tougher with those calves to since every ear matters. We've all played with the idea of just moving up the cow herd and calving everything at once when checking 100 or so why not just check them all. But then feed plays a part in the operation here to.

Part of the reason for the March calving date is we've been sending cows to cornstalks. That gives us time for them to be there and get them home for calving to save in having to feed so much hay. Saving the cows from having to have so much hay has led my father to buying some calves and running them to yearlings just another way to difersify and have money coming in to the cash flow equation other times of the year besides fall.

My parents also have a summer calving herd. I usually refer to it as fall calving but they start around the end of August. We check them about three times a day, but for the most part the ole girls are on their own. This is just one more way to have cash flowing in another time of year. I would like to have some cows in this herd also. I'm still working on getting my partner to come around to the idea. It's nice to have the money coming in at various times of year. Just my opinion.

 

[WyomingRancher]

I plan for March 1 calving for 55 days. I am mostly by myself, and calving early allows more time for all other ranch jobs that come up later in the spring. Also, I run on a forest allotment, and it's a lot easier to take older calves to summer range.

I wish I could graze my cows during winter without much feed, but I have to manage around ponderosa pine tree exposure during the last trimester of pregnancy. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of "tree-free" winter range, and therefore have to put the cows on full feed from december through calving. Once they have calved, they go back onto grass and I can get by feeding less hay.

I like to sell my calves in July/August for an early October delivery. By the time I get home from the forest and weigh/vaccinate the calves I am ready for them to leave before the weather starts to change. I'm at 7800', and winter comes anytime after July

I think successful people are the ones who recognize their place's challenges and adapt accordingly. Every ranch seems to be a unique puzzle, and no two places seem to be managed the same.

 

[John SD]

I calve in late April through May. Brand in mid-June. Calves get Vision 7 at birth and Vision7 Somnus at branding time. Cows and yearling replacement heifers got a Preg Guard FP 10 shot. Everybody got poured with ivermectin. Knocks off the first few generations of flies anyway.

This fall I gave the calves One Shot Ultra 7 and Express 5 HS. I can give the calves the MLV vaccines while they are nursing the cow because the cows are current on their shots.

I sold the black hided steers and black heifers at the end of Nov. Kept all the red hided calves both steers and heifers and the baldy heifers.

I'm still rebuilding my herd from a near total dispersion in '02 due to drought and my health at the time. (got 2 heart valves replaced and a pacemaker)

At that time I only kept my coming 3's and younger cattle except for about 3 old girls who calved out of season and would have been singled out of the bunch when I sold.

I came home a month after my surgery in time to start calving in mid April '03. That was my first year of not calving in early March and was one of the best decisions I ever made at the right time.

I've had very good luck with late April/May calving. Doesn't take a lot of supplemental feed to winter the cows. Grass is greening up and weather has warmed up quite a bit by the time the cows calve on a fresh pasture I reserve just for calving.

My herd is getting redder all the time. My heifers will have calves out of a proven black Angus heifer bull. Sold that bull after he was done this year. Bought a new Hereford heifer bull so in '09 all my calves will be Hereford sired.

I have my herd built back up to 50% capacity. Have been renting out summer/winter pasture to a neighbor since '02. Another year or so and I should be able to utilize all my pasture myself. I have been keeping the red/Hereford steers and making yearlings out of them. Sold in mid-Aug this year @ 1000 lbs. IMO, as calves Herefords take a bad hit on price/cwt. As yearlings they sell as well as anything else.

I try to reevaluate what I do every so often, but also try to stick with a plan if it seems to be working. I plan to stick with the later calving in case my health goes haywire things could pretty much be on autopilot and the neighbors would have a minimum of chores to tail me up.

 

[randiliana]

We start calving the first week in March, and except for maybe something we bought, the herd is done the last week of April. It is a necessity for us as we pasture the majority of the herd away from home, and can't send uncalved cows out. Plus, our target is to sell the calves in October/November, and the bigger the steers are the more $$ we get for them.

We brand in late April or early May, depending on how many cows are left to calve. The calves get an 8-way and injectable Ivomec. They are banded and pasted at birth, at the same time they are weighed, tagged, and the heifer calves are tattooed. At branding time the cows are also vaccinated with Express 10, which hopefully will pay off with their guarantee. In the fall the cows recieve pour-on ivermectin at pregchecking time. Replacments will get a shot of Express 10 and 8-way and pour-on ivermectin in the fall as well.

Depending on the year, and cost of grain, we may also creepfeed the steers and bottom end heifers.

As well I keep extensive records, and I see it paying off when I cull the occaisonal heifer that is not a good producer. As well it helps to decide on the culling of older cows, preferrably before their production really goes down. At the same time it helps make the decision to KEEP an older cow, or "ugly" looking cow.

 

[the_jersey_lilly_2000]

I have a question for all you that have posted in this thread. Most I see it looks like you only worm once a year. Do any of you worm twice a year. We do...spring and fall.

 

[randiliana]

I have a question for all you that have posted in this thread. Most I see it looks like you only worm once a year. Do any of you worm twice a year. We do...spring and fall.

We only worm once a year. Because of the cold winters we have worms aren't a big problem over the winter. But, we do worm the baby calves early in the spring, so technically we worm our young stock twice.

 

[RobertMac]

My cows calve on my forage peak...May-June(although this year I put the bull in to start calving the first of April). I leave the bull in until a month or so before calving starts(bred cows are worth more than opens...opens are worth more as meat). Heifer calves are tagged, tattooed, and dehorned at birth...bull calves are tagged and tattooed unless they have the genetics to be considered for breeding, they get dehorned.

The herd is rotationally grazed until I run out of pasture forage in the fall/early winter and are then fed hay until winter pasture is ready to graze. Calves are fence line weaned with access to winter pasture and hay(they forget mama fairly quick...hard to bawl with a full mouth). Cows get hay and are rotationally supplemented with a few hours a day winter pasture. Meat bulls/steers are on full time rotational winter pasture with hay like the weanlings. Late winter I band weaned bull calves for meat animals.

That's it...it all starts over with calving.
No pesticides, no supplemental feed, no mineral/vitamin supplement, no vaccines...I have a closed herd and it's taken me 9 years of selection/culling to get here. Only animals requiring treatment get it...and then are sold!!!!

It's amazing how screwed up man has made God's cattle!!!

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

My cows calve on my forage peak...May-June(although this year I put the bull in to start calving the first of April). I leave the bull in until a month or so before calving starts(bred cows are worth more than opens...opens are worth more as meat). Heifer calves are tagged, tattooed, and dehorned at birth...bull calves are tagged and tattooed unless they have the genetics to be considered for breeding, they get dehorned.

The herd is rotationally grazed until I run out of pasture forage in the fall/early winter and are then fed hay until winter pasture is ready to graze. Calves are fence line weaned with access to winter pasture and hay(they forget mama fairly quick...hard to bawl with a full mouth). Cows get hay and are rotationally supplemented with a few hours a day winter pasture. Meat bulls/steers are on full time rotational winter pasture with hay like the weanlings. Late winter I band weaned bull calves for meat animals.

That's it...it all starts over with calving.
No pesticides, no supplemental feed, no mineral/vitamin supplement, no vaccines...I have a closed herd and it's taken me 9 years of selection/culling to get here. Only animals requiring treatment get it...and then are sold!!!!

It's amazing how screwed up man has made God's cattle!!!

Robert you say "No supplemental feed" But isn't that what Hay is? Somebody mentioned Dick Diven on another thread and at a afternoon presentation of his he was talking survival of the fittest. He didn't think we needed to feed in this country where it get's -40 .

 

[Northern Rancher]

I went to a Dick Diven deal once and he was talking straw as a supplement-he said he'd never heard of a cow getting rumen impaction from it. Sometimes we need to pick our guru to follow a little closer to home.while shortening our feeding period is certainly possible totally eliminating it in my neck of the woods isn't really practical.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

A couple of times the rebuilding of our soils has been mentioned. Would the feeding of minerals not help in the rebuilding process. Whether we have grown corn or grazed livestock we have mined the soils. In the past the Dinasors Bison deer ect have lived and died. Until man came and used the resources to grown crops and livestock nutrients have been returned to the ground but man changed that .

 

[RobertMac]

Robert you say "No supplemental feed" But isn't that what Hay is?

No, it's supplemental forage! :wink:
Forage is my feed source...I see hay as a stored forage source, the same as grass silage or balage. I don't see eliminating hay use as an end unto itself...but use it wisely and judiciously.

"Survival of the fittest" is unPC for adaptation!

Sometimes we need to pick our guru to follow a little closer to home.

If you have to follow a guru, you're in trouble!
If you have a closed mind and won't glean and/or try ideas from a guru, you're in trouble!!
The best "gurus" are the ones that make you think!!!

Whether we have grown corn or grazed livestock we have mined the soils.

Crops remove about 30-40 pounds of P and K per acre out of the soil.
Grazed livestock removes very little.

Would the feeding of minerals not help in the rebuilding process.

How much minerals would you have to feed to replace the 30-40 lbs. of P and K per acre? But every little bid helps.
My belief is that rebuilding soil is limited to the quality of the parent soil, but a worthy goal to find your economical balance focusing on organic matter, calcium, phosphorus, and potassium.

 

[badroute]

This is an interesting topic , finding out who does what and why. Great Post.

I guess I calve in April and the first part of May. February and March calving can get a little tough up here oin the divide. Calves are just given an eartag at birth. I brand around the 15th or 20th of May(usually right around Buckin Horse sale for those of you from Montana) Cows are split into three bunches and are ran on crested wheatgrass pastures untilabout the 10th of June. They are then trailed to summer pastures and the bulls are put in the 21st of June for 45 days.

Cattle are supplemented with straight mineral when the grass is good and then with liquid feed around October until I start feeding which is usually the first week or so in January.

Calves are preconditioned around the first of October and sold directly of the cow around the 25 of October. My calves are contracted through and order buyer. I also pull off the replacement heifers and any peewees during preconditioning. This makes for a much smoother shipping day. I pregtest shortly after shipping and all dry cows earn a one way ticket to town.

Thats my operation in a nutshell.

 

[Northern Rancher]

I was being facetious RobertMac I have enough good mentors within a saddlehorse ride from me.