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High Fat tubs

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PPRM, I kept forgetting to add that we bought a semi load of corn distillers grain the other day for 65 dollars a ton plus freight, which made it come out to 100/ton. I was thinking that them changing the raw product into your barrels and getting them where ever they traveled added 10 times to the cost of the product. And adding the other ingredients of course.

There sure is a markup in some of these products.

The calves that we weaned this fall were turned back out on grass partly for health reasons, as to keep the dust problems down. The weather was so nice, we bought a protein mineral that had bovatec in it to try and ward off coccidiocis. I later looked and saw where this had some feather meal in it. I plan to ask the salesman about that now. This product has 52% protein and we tried to get them to eat one half pound/day, but missed that just a bit. With the bovatec it is around 550/ton I think.

We have been feeding them their normal ration of alf., grass hay, corn, and DDG recently, and they look pretty good.

I thought that you might have found some real cheap grazing that you were supplementing with your barrels, as you seem to be a shrewd thinker when it comes to cost. Don't think I was ever trying to be critical of your operation. I can tell you think things through, and sometimes the higher cost product might fit a situation better. Have a good one.
 
My Big Muddy Bossy Bloomer that was inspirered by Vigortone Forage Pro has been refined again. I have canola meal, salt, canola oil and mineral in a mix cost about $200 tonne landed in. I put this mash out in tubs trying for consumption of 1 pound /hd/day. We weaned fairly early and got the cows back to the hill on grass that we save for this purpose and they are looking great. Running this through our Cow Bytes program it works for fall grazing but I will switch to mineral and hay some Alfalfa when cows are closer in and getting some supplemental feed anyways.
With the cost of fuel and limited help cost of delivery to the cows has to be figured to figure the cost of feed I think.
 
Jake, interesting that you are feeding Bovatec to your replacements for cocciodisis. It is widely known that ionorphores such a Bovatec do help prevent outbreaks of coccidosis. However, did your salesman tell you that they have to eat 280 mg. per head per day of Bovatech in order to accomplish this?

Irritates me that people selling processed feed don't tell the whole story. I'm very happy your calves are getting along so well on the program you are using. That is not my point, to tear down anyones program. My point is feed salesmen loosly saying Bovatch prevents coccidosis. It will, IF you get enough in them.

I never heard of coccidosis until I moved to this country. I think it warrants a little discussion because there are so many misconceptions about it.

I will share some of my LIMITED knowledge:
All cattle have coccidia in their system. Coccidia is an opportunist that takes advantage and attacks stressed cattle-whether it be feed stress, weather stress or the blue heeler dog stress.

Where the confusion comes from is that there is coccidia (the bug) and coccidiosis (the disease). When feed is changed drastically on cattle they can get acidosis from an upset rumen. When their intestines start to heal up from the acidosis, they will shed some lining of their stomach. This shedding looks like blood in the manure. This frightens the producer. So he takes a sample in to the vet. Upon examination the vet finds coccidia and BINGO, the diagnosis is coccidosis. But the diagnosis is not always correct. The cattle may show coccidia but not have coccidosis, the disease.

Now, if the cattle are sick, go off feed, stagger, etc., that is common symptoms of coccidosis. And coccidosis is a scary disease. But it gets blamed in a lot of instances that isn't quite accurate.

One other thing, Decquinate, the preventative for coccidosis, is to be fed for 28 days. We have found that you are better off feeding it for 30 days because not all the cattle get the dequinate in them the first day or two. It's pretty good insurance to feed it another couple of days.

I hope I have shed a bit of light on this subject. Of course, if you really want to delve into it, there is no way to cover it in a short post here and especially from a woman who has just come to learn about it in the last 10 years. However, I certainly think it is an important subject and one not to be treated lightly.
 
I use a pellet with Decox mixed in the ration for "28" days. usually it is a little longer as I figure what I need and get a little more to make sure. It has worked for me.I don't use a ionaphore as with the horses and dogs around I don't like to take the chance that they will eat it.
 
I was having a problem ( Vet thought cocciodisis ) with bloody stools - - cattle seemed fine otherwise. Vet had me start offering rolled corn stalks free choice to the cattle on full feed. It was amazing the differance. I was running low on corn stalk bales so put good hay in the lot ( cattle on full feed) and they would eat the corn stalks instead of the hay unless corn stalks were not available.

I'm not sure if they really do better or if I just get piece of mind from it but it seems to be cheap piece of mind. I think they eat them more out of bordom than anything else but if it makes them content so be it.
 
FH, we feed the protein mineral as a way to get a little protein into the calves, but mainly to start to get the bovatec into them. I am aware of the level needed for cocci. benefits, but we are just trying to get some into them so when we start the regular ration that they can go right on with it. This was something our vet and I came up with that allowed us to keep the calves on pasture for a while after weaning.

Believe me, I have had terrible experiences with coccidiosis, and maybe the feed is for me to feel better as much as for the calves. :wink:

A couple winters ago, we had the severe form of coccidiosis, and nothing would touch it until a nutritionalist reccomended boosting the bovatec to 500mg./day. Then it just ended. The cocci. lifespan is 28 days, I think, and we had an outbreak that lasted longer than that, and cost us performance and several calves. :gag:

Normally a feedlot doesn't feed anymore than 350 mg./day to fat cattle, but it took 500 to kick our problem. Then we get whatever benefit that the bovatec gives us on the side too.
 
Good. You are on top of it then.

The point I was trying to make was that all of us out here are spitting against the wind when feeding something for an express purpose without knowing the recommended amount.

I made that post to share information as much as anything.
 
Jake,


You are dead on with the Cheap Pasture cost. I rented a Pasture @ $20.00 per pair this summer for a handful of Spring Calvers. Well, the guy wanted me to turn in too late and then he wanted too many. Worked well till first of September......Then I was outta Grass there.


His Nieghbor had a Handfull of calves on a huge Flood Irrigated Pasture. I inquired about it and he said that it was something he was aving for his cows that were on range. However, he took my Pone number. Turns out, his Summer Ranch was going thru an estate sale, he was getting old and decided to sell the cows while working thru selling the ranch as an hier. I asked the cost and he said, "We'll work that out later." I helped hime sort his calves and hauled some to the sale for him and asked again. Near as I can tell, he is contemplating between free ( He says he just wants it ate off) or fair market value, $12-15 per bred Cow.......

The Cows are calving out very nicely there...


PPRM
 
Take a look at mix 30 liquid feed 16% protein 10%fat(energy) I have been feeding Mix 30 for 4 years now and woulndn't feed anything else but mix 30. Cows feed enough roughage or have good winter grazing don't need anything else. might want to throw them some salt and mineral as needed. cows have very strong and healthy calves and breed back very well on this program. Cost $5.85 per head permonth at a 2lb perhead perday ration. My cows have only average 1.5 lbs. consumption per head per day over the last 4 years but every place is different. I feed mix 30 to calves, cows, sheep and horses really makes their hair coats shine. Here where I'm at I can get it delivered to the pasture for the cows for $195 per ton. Feeding cake you haul it out everyday or everyother day, stop to think about high fuel cost of taking the caking pickup out everyday verses having someone take mix 30 out to your cows for you twice amonth. Liquid feed or lick tubs are out for your cows 24/7 cake is out for there for about 10 minutes and hay 3 hours a day. Mix 30 should be fed in a roller wheel tank. For my operation Mix 30 is the cheapest and best way for me to supplement my cows for the winter and calving season. My daughter calls Mix 30 cow chocolate.
Goto
www.mix30.com and this should answer all your questions about the product.
 
I heard that stuff has to be put in a tank with a mixer to keep it mixed up. If that is all it cost($195/ton) and someone puts it out for you, how can there be much to the ingredients? If you don't put it out, you are paying for someone else to put it out.

Nothing is free.

What is the cost of it on a DRY MATTER BASIS? How much moisture does it contain? That will tell you the whole story. Lets figure it on cost per pound of protein to compare apples to apples. Salesmen throw lots of figures around, but comparing cost per pound of protein on a dry matter basis levels the playing field.

Don't get me wrong. It's nice that you think it is doing what you want it to. I just have an inquiring mind.

What are the ingredients? What is the protein source? What is the fat source? Where all has that tub been? Can't be too careful these days.
 
I looked at the website and I can't see anywhere that it gives the percent of moisture content. As I said, I have an inquiring mind. So I set up a scenerio. IF it contains 50% moisture, which is likely; 1.5 lb. per day would result in .75 DRY MATTER. .75 lbs of dry matter at 16% protein means you are only getting .12 lbs. of protein per head per day in those cows at a cost of ninteen and a half (.195) cents per head per day. A cows protein requirement is 1.7 lbs. crude protein per day in mid trimester.

Comparing Alfalfa hay at 18% protein, costing $80/ton; fed at 10 lbs. per head per day, 15% moisture would cost you 40 cents per head per day, but you would get 1.5 lbs of crude protein in them. Or for 20 cents a day you would get .75 lbs of crude protein. Plus the cow is getting 8.5 lbs. of dry matter as well, and dry matter is very important. Of course, you have the cost of feeding the alfalfa yourself.

I don't know the percent of energy it contains or I could figure that as well.

I would really be interested to know how much NPN is actually in the product, too. Is there anyway you could find out, since it isn't on the website?
 
Mix-30; It contains no NPN. I haul and feed it myself, cost is up to $150.00 per ton @ the feed store. It is a tremendous feed for developing hfr. calves. My breed up has been quite good since I started feeding it. Fed it now for 4-5 years. Consumption control is the key. There is nothing to add to control consumption. The lick wheels might work. The thing one has to remember while feeding it, like any liquid feed there are highs and lows in the overall average.
I do agree Faster Horses alfalfa is probably a better feed overall.
 
I went to town to buy Mix-30 and they were sold out. They told me they had sold 3 semi-loads in the past week.
 
Regarding NPN, I just went back and rechecked it.

Here is what it says:

"MIX 30's design incorporates both natural AND/OR NPN..."
so it DOES have NPN and they don't say how much.

And it is 60% moisture, even more than I originally thought. So that means there is LESS of everything than I first figured.

RRoss, how do you haul it and feed it? Doesn't it take some rather sophisticated equipment to keep it mixed?
 
I haul it in a 450 gallon tank on a dually p.u. [it weighs 9 lbs a gal.]. A lot of people put large tanks on trlrs. It does not seperate as bad as you think, by the time you get it to the tanks in the pastures it is pretty well mixed. Only put enough out for a week. If it seperates some stir it with a shovel. Gives the dogs something else to lick while driving to the next tank. I just bought open plastic tanks of various sizes from the local ag. supply store [Shiptons]. I gravity mine off, if you are hauling and feeding a lot a pump might be handy.

On the NPN I will find out today how much and let you know. These guys handle enough of the feed they will have some answers, or they will find out. My horses have eaten it over the years and I've never worried about it until this morning. When I first started using the feed I am sure it was all natural, it sounds like they have changed the ingredients.
 
I talked to a guy that handles 2 to 3 railcars a year and he said that as far as he knew they haven't changed the ingredients or there method of making, but he siad you can get a mineral pack mixed in if you want it put in but that is done if you yourself would want it in your feed.
 
Don't mean to hi-jack the thread, but has anyone on these forums tried MLS (www.mlstubs.com) tubs with Amaferm? I used these with great success up here. They've got more than a dozen different formulations that a producer can match up to his feed and the time of year.

I've always fed high quality hay and plenty of grain up here, but our country is missing a few things like vit E and selenium. I supplemented with a loose range mineral mixed with salt (my cattle wouldn't take the loose mineral on its own) and the cattle were looking good.

The feed salesman that came around and hooked me promised me the world, and he wasn't too far off the mark. My normal conception rates were about 60-30-10 (60% first cycle, 30% second, 10% late). After selecting a tub that plugged up the holes in my feed, my conception rates went to 80-18-2 and stayed there for the next 3 years.

The Amaferm additive was supposed to drop feed consumption by 10 - 30% by stimulating digestion and allowing the animal to make better use of the roughage they were consuming. My first year, my consumption dropped by about 10%, but it was a mild winter so I didn't think much of it. The following year was typical, but feed consumption was down another 10%. A couple neighbors that also got hooked noticed the same thing. They'd normally feed every couple days, but were now feeding every 3 days.

With the BSE scare, and border closures, I went off the MLS tubs two years ago and back to grain, high quality hay, and loose mineral. My conception rate has dropped back to 60-30-10 and feed consumption is back up. I'll be going back on the tubs this year, now that there is a little more money floating around.

Anyway, to the point of this long post: Has anyone else used MLS tubs, and can they compare back to other nutrient programs? If there is something better out there, I'll happily make the switch.

Rod
 
I check in into MLS tubs 4 years ago and almost went with them. But then they where $750 per ton I couldn't afford them.
 

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