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Bull Burger

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Canadian beef producers were not expecting the ruling by Judge Richard Cebull on Thursday, when he issued an injunction stopping the movement of cattle from Canada into the United States scheduled for March 7. A closer look might have revealed a close relationship between the Federal Judge and R-Calf, the activist cattleman's group. It was no coincidence R-Calf brought the lawsuit in Billings Montana, where the organization is based and also the home of the Federal Judge.



Judge Cebull heard the legal arguments Thursday morning but indications are he had already made up his mind long before the legal arguments were presented. The ruling was issued before the arguments were completed and the 28 page opinion by the Judge was available in a matter of a couple hours after the hearing.



The ruling and the delay in the border opening, places the United States logically in an awkward and contradictory position with Japan. The assumption of a remaining food safety issue with Canadian beef brought into the U.S., also would mean there remains a food safety issue for the Japanese importing American beef. Scientist and food safety experts can find no support for these assumptions as set for in the R-Calf arguments.



USDA was silent at week's end about its plans for continuing this battle. The logical move would be an emergency motion to the Federal appellate court to overrule Judge Cebull's decision. Experts believe the Judge's 28 page opinion is flawed and vulnerable to a reversal by the appellate court.



USDA might be sensitive to political pressures emerging from Congress supporting the ruling and turning increasingly hostile towards the Japanese and their ban on American beef. Several members of Congress openly linked the Canadian border opening to the Japanese border opening.



The billions of dollars of damage and havoc wreaked on the beef industry by an issue with very little substance, is unparalleled in modern times. No human in this country has suffered ill from BSE. No science indicates a looming danger to consumers of beef from countries where BSE exists with appropriate safety controls. Even beef or muscle from a BSE animal is not thought to transmit the disease to person. The time has long past to drop mad cow from the emotional and political arena and resume normalized beef production.


http://www.agcenter.com/cattlereport.asp
 

Sandhusker

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Bull Burger said:
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"Canadian beef producers were not expecting the ruling by Judge Richard Cebull on Thursday, when he issued an injunction stopping the movement of cattle from Canada into the United States scheduled for March 7. A closer look might have revealed a close relationship between the Federal Judge and R-Calf, the activist cattleman's group. It was no coincidence R-Calf brought the lawsuit in Billings Montana, where the organization is based and also the home of the Federal Judge."

Does the author of this article buy their groceries where they live or do they drive to a different state? Why does he expect R-CALF to go to a different city or state to file a lawsuit when they can "walk across the street" and get it done? Of course it is "no coincidence" the judge lives in the same city as the court! :lol: This opening paragraph throws a red flag to the rest of the article.



"Judge Cebull heard the legal arguments Thursday morning but indications are he had already made up his mind long before the legal arguments were presented. The ruling was issued before the arguments were completed and the 28 page opinion by the Judge was available in a matter of a couple hours after the hearing."

Judge Cebull has heard it all before recently. This hearing was just more of what he had heard the last time between R-CALF and USDA.

"The ruling and the delay in the border opening, places the United States logically in an awkward and contradictory position with Japan. The assumption of a remaining food safety issue with Canadian beef brought into the U.S., also would mean there remains a food safety issue for the Japanese importing American beef. Scientist and food safety experts can find no support for these assumptions as set for in the R-Calf arguments."

Depends on which scientist and food safety expert you talk to.

USDA was silent at week's end about its plans for continuing this battle. The logical move would be an emergency motion to the Federal appellate court to overrule Judge Cebull's decision. Experts believe the Judge's 28 page opinion is flawed and vulnerable to a reversal by the appellate court.

I guess the USDA will do it if they have any faith in these "experts".

USDA might be sensitive to political pressures emerging from Congress supporting the ruling and turning increasingly hostile towards the Japanese and their ban on American beef. Several members of Congress openly linked the Canadian border opening to the Japanese border opening.

"The billions of dollars of damage and havoc wreaked on the beef industry by an issue with very little substance, is unparalleled in modern times. No human in this country has suffered ill from BSE. No science indicates a looming danger to consumers of beef from countries where BSE exists with appropriate safety controls. Even beef or muscle from a BSE animal is not thought to transmit the disease to person. The time has long past to drop mad cow from the emotional and political arena and resume normalized beef production."

There's a whole lot about BSE that we simply don't know. BSE doesn't cause your toenails to discolor, it kills people.

http://www.agcenter.com/cattlereport.asp
 

don

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i think usda will be very sensitive to producer sentiment and just leave the injunction to go to trial sometime in the next year or so.
 

Tam

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Judge Cebull has heard it all before recently. This hearing was just more of what he had heard the last time between R-CALF and USDA.

Then is this why he wouldn't except any friend of the court briefs. As they may have just prove he had written his comments even before he heard the three hours of arguments. Why, did he waste the courts time if he had heard it all before why didn't he just say stay home these are my comments on this case. Or would that have looked like he had already made up his mind, more so than having a 28 page comment ready for release within hours of hearing the case. I think we should go to Billings this spring and see if we can get a picture of Cebull playing a friendly round of golf with Bullard and McDonnell.

There's a whole lot about BSE that we simply don't know. BSE doesn't cause your toenails to discolor, it kills people.

Maybe this is the same reason that Japan is not willing to import from the US. Is this reason stopping the same Senators that passed the bill the other day about Canadian imports from writing letter to threaten Japan with Trade sanctions if they don't lift their ban on the US. Remember Japan has lost a citizen to the human form of Mad Cow. It is a clear case of do as the US says not as they do right Sandhusker. Why don't you and the US beef industry tell the Senate to lead by example instead of telling them to threaten Japan into submission.
 
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Tam said:
Judge Cebull has heard it all before recently. This hearing was just more of what he had heard the last time between R-CALF and USDA.

Then is this why he wouldn't except any friend of the court briefs. As they may have just prove he had written his comments even before he heard the three hours of arguments. Why, did he waste the courts time if he had heard it all before why didn't he just say stay home these are my comments on this case. Or would that have looked like he had already made up his mind, more so than having a 28 page comment ready for release within hours of hearing the case. I think we should go to Billings this spring and see if we can get a picture of Cebull playing a friendly round of golf with Bullard and McDonnell.

There's a whole lot about BSE that we simply don't know. BSE doesn't cause your toenails to discolor, it kills people.

Maybe this is the same reason that Japan is not willing to import from the US. Is this reason stopping the same Senators that passed the bill the other day about Canadian imports from writing letter to threaten Japan with Trade sanctions if they don't lift their ban on the US. Remember Japan has lost a citizen to the human form of Mad Cow. It is a clear case of do as the US says not as they do right Sandhusker. Why don't you and the US beef industry tell the Senate to lead by example instead of telling them to threaten Japan into submission.

Tam- From what I've seen of the Federal Courts, anyway the ones in Montana, they put up with no BS--- If OJ had been tried in the same court, instead of a 3 month trial, it would have been 3 days......
 

Sandhusker

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Tam, "Maybe this is the same reason that Japan is not willing to import from the US. Is this reason stopping the same Senators that passed the bill the other day about Canadian imports from writing letter to threaten Japan with Trade sanctions if they don't lift their ban on the US. Remember Japan has lost a citizen to the human form of Mad Cow. It is a clear case of do as the US says not as they do right Sandhusker. Why don't you and the US beef industry tell the Senate to lead by example instead of telling them to threaten Japan into submission."

Hey, I'm in agreement with you that there is a difference between how the US treats Canada and expects to be treated by Japan. I've been very vocal on the USDA's mishandling and outright BSing in regards to Japan. While I don't think the US and Canada should be viewed as equal risks (4 - 0), I think both the US's and Japan's actions show the inherant weaknesses in international trade agreements and alliances and this should tell us all how much we can bank on them.

I don't feel "Leading by example" has any merit at all. It is painfully obvious that countries will do exactly what is in their best interests to do.
Tam, we are taking your boxed beef. How many countries changed their policy based on our actions? Another example; The US has virtually no tariffs on imported beef, yet the average tariff we are going against is 80%. Our "leadership" there has us in a nasty disadvantage. Need I mention Europe? Naw, leadership only works when others are looking for a leader. I think you have to go into the international trade arena with the same attitude you would if you were playing poker in the wrong side of town.

Have a good night, time to hit the proverbial hay.
 
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Sandhusker: "Hey, I'm in agreement with you that there is a difference between how the US treats Canada and expects to be treated by Japan."

Of course there is! The U.S. expects Japan to take their beef but they are unwilling to take Canadian cattle that are now coming down in boxes. The U.S. tells Japan that our beef is safe yet shows fear for Canadian cattle.

Japan knows we had BSE within our borders, they know we don't have a traceback system, they know we have taken the same precautionary measures as Canada, and they know we have Canadian cattle in our mix.

Why should they take our beef if we are unwilling to take Canadian cattle WHEN WE HAVE CANADIAN CATTLE IN OUR MIX?

They're not going to fall for R-CULT's smoke and mirrors!

You must really think Japan is stupid!



~SH~
 

Tommy

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Clarence said:
Sh:

Is Japan taking Canadian Beef?

When they do, your arguement will be valid.

Good point Clarence. Also is Japan going to take any live cattle for feeding or slaughter?
 

Bull Burger

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Tommy said:
Clarence said:
Sh:

Is Japan taking Canadian Beef?

When they do, your arguement will be valid.

Good point Clarence. Also is Japan going to take any live cattle for feeding or slaughter?

Tommy, why would they want to take live cattle in a small highly populated country? Why would we want to ship live cattle when we could add the value here?
 

Tommy

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BB...Why would we want to ship live cattle when we could add the value here?

My point exactly, we will not be selling Japan live cattle, only beef and that from under 20 months. So why would Japan be worried about us taking live cattle from Canada? I do not understand the arguement of those who say Japan will hold us to the same standard we hold Canada. If so they would be taking our beef right now up to 30 months of age.
 

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Why doesn't Japan take beef from the US right now if you don't have BSE?
 

Tam

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Clarence said:
Sh:

Is Japan taking Canadian Beef?

When they do, your arguement will be valid.


No Clarence but according to Ted Haney the other day Japan likes the fact that Canada HAS a system in place that can trace animals, that proved itself. We can also age verify by birth date. He said that puts Canada steps closer to resuming trade with Japan over the US. I hope he is right if we keep building our slaughter capacity maybe we will sell direct to Japan.
 
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Tam said:
Clarence said:
Sh:

Is Japan taking Canadian Beef?

When they do, your arguement will be valid.


No Clarence but according to Ted Haney the other day Japan likes the fact that Canada HAS a system in place that can trace animals, that proved itself. We can also age verify by birth date. He said that puts Canada steps closer to resuming trade with Japan over the US. I hope he is right if we keep building our slaughter capacity maybe we will sell direct to Japan.

Tam- Who is this Ted Haney you always quote? I never heard of him....
 

Tommy

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Tam... I hope he is right if we keep building our slaughter capacity maybe we will sell direct to Japan.


That would be great Tam. I hope that is what can be done. You should also test them all, prove to the packers that you can do it when they will not.
 

mlsfarms

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A simple solution to the question of safety of Canadian beef as professed by USDA. Mandate that all imported beef from Canada be served only in the District of Columbia and through the USDA school lunch program. This would provide a market for alot of this product, provided it had consumer acceptance.
 

Tam

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Tommy said:
BB...Why would we want to ship live cattle when we could add the value here?

My point exactly, we will not be selling Japan live cattle, only beef and that from under 20 months. So why would Japan be worried about us taking live cattle from Canada? I do not understand the arguement of those who say Japan will hold us to the same standard we hold Canada. If so they would be taking our beef right now up to 30 months of age.


I don't think it is that you don't take them but why you don't take them. Is the US not taking them because they are not safe? if so then the US is saying that US cattle are not safe either as we used a stricter version of the same rules to protect our herd as the US used to protect yours.
But the US must not believe it is unsafe as they are taking meat from Canada right. So is it that they aren't taking the cattle because it is safe if slaughter in Canada but it's not if it is slaughter in the US?. If the US doesn't trust their slaughter plants with freshly imported cattle why should Japan trust those same slaughter plants with the possible US case. Japan knows that the US and Canada have traded cattle and feed for decades so what is in one country is more than likely in the other if it is feed related. The only thing the US is doing by not openning the border to live cattle is showing the rest of the world you don't trust the US system to process the same cattle, Canada processes into safe meat, into safe meat.
The US is at the same risk status as Canada so when to world sees Canada taking the US beef for immediate slaughter, is it because we trust our slaughter plants more than the you trust yours.
 

Tam

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Tam- Who is this Ted Haney you always quote? I never heard of him

Ted Haney, Canada Beef Export Federation - Ted Haney is the President of the Canada Beef Export Federation. He was raised in Southern Alberta on a mixed farm, including both a cow herd and a feedlot. Ted graduated from the University of Alberta in 1982 with a Bachelor of Science in Agriculture and again in 1991 with a Master of Science in Agriculture Economics. Before joining the Canada Beef Export Federation in1992, Ted worked as an agricultural consultant in Canada and Asia.
Does this answer you question Oldtimer.
 

Tam

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Tommy said:
Tam... I hope he is right if we keep building our slaughter capacity maybe we will sell direct to Japan.


That would be great Tam. I hope that is what can be done. You should also test them all, prove to the packers that you can do it when they will not.

I hope this typed with tongue in cheek Tommy :?
as I thought you as a grass root producer didn't like competeing with Canadian cattle as it lowered the price you got for yours. Isn't that the real reason this border is still closed? :roll: Now you want your packers, the guys that buy your cattle, to compete with our packers for export markets. :???: Just what do you think that will do to your precious cattle prices??? The US producers will also have less competition to buy your cattle as slaughter plants are closing in the States aren't they Tommy. I hear one is being dismantaled right now and moved lock stock and barrel to MANITOBA. :clap:
But maybe it will work for you, :wink: if Canada is busy shipping our beef to the high priced Japanese market we probably won't have enough left to ship any to the US. :p
MY MISTAKE :oops: how can the US compete for export markets? the US doesn't have enough to supply their own domestic market without the help of 6 or 7 other countries including Canada. :nod: So if we ship our beef to Japan where are you going to get the beef to feed your domestic market while you are useing yours to compete with Canada. :help: Maybe you could import even more from Mexico, NO Brazil I hear they have a big herd if you don't mind the odd out break of FOOT AND MOUTH. I'm sure they could cover you on the homefront while you are competeing for export markets with your safest untested beef in the WORLD . :lol: :lol:
 

Tommy

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Tam...I hope this typed with tongue in cheek Tommy

Nope, I sincerely meant it. I do not have a problem with USA beef competing with Canada's beef in the world market. Or in our country if it is labeled.
Why had you rather send us most of your beef and then let the packers send it to Japan, instead of shipping it to them direct?
 

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