DJL said:
Roper of course you can't continuously pressure cattle hard in the pasture, but I have seen many times where they pressure you pretty hard in their determination not to be taken to the corral, etc. With a finished bridle horse, (which is all the mature reined cow horses really are), that is used in the cow horse arena, there is a tendency to turn just as hard in the pasture as they do in the arena, which can result in injury if they aren't really warmed up and stretched out, or the footing isn't good. The cow work portion of competition requires boxing the yearling at the end of the arena, then down the fence for one good turn each way, and then circle the cow out in the middle of the arena one circle in each direction. They make more than two trips down the fence to either try to get a good turn, or to take enough air out of the animal so they can catch it to circle it. A perfect run is box, turn right, turn left, circle right, circle left with complete control throughout, and when it happens it can be a thing of beauty. I have quite a few friends who cow horse, but don't have the luxury of owning a ranch or working at something where they use their horses daily, so they don't have the cattle or the hills to work in. Instead, they are smart enough to have high paying jobs, so they can afford good trainers, good horses, and to enter whatever competition they want. They come and help move cattle for us, and it's surprising just how well their horses accept whatever is thrown at them, and carry on like seasoned ranch horses. There are high end horses that have never been ridden outside the arena, and they are a different story all together. I wouldn't want them out here in the bush and hills lest they kill themselves or their riders.
As to the Cheyenne roll, if you don't want one, just order your saddle custom made and they'll make it any way you like. It's only money, after all! :lol:
Yes I bet your friends have turned a lot of cows out in the pasture but im betting that there was more distance between them and the cow. That or the cow wasnt as cranked up as in RCH. Example; during the fence work in RCH while your raceing down the arena wall, turning back the cow, boxing the cow,etc, everything is at a gallope. Your leg is either touching or within inches of the cow the whole time. Thats a lot of pressure! Its fun to watch and its a great sport but things are different when cows are on their home turf and know where they want to go. In the arena the cow doesnt know where he can escape. He is in the arena all alone with the rider. He just knows that he doesnt want to be next to the horse and rider.
What I have found is that when it gets to that point, when a rider all by himself out in the hills has to put that much pressure on a cow to turn it, the cow is only going to be turned just so many times and then the cow is just going to go right THROUGH you and your horse.
If that cow is that determined to get by you that your horse starts to look like Smart Little Lena or if you have to get right up a long side of the cow <within inches> at a gallope, get ahead of it to turn it back like they do in RCH that after a while when the cow figgures out it cant get by you that it will just decide to go right through you.
Sure on the ranch there are times when you have to turn back cows. But they are turned back at a distance. If they are that determined to get by you that things start to look like reined cow horse fence work then its time to go to plan "B".
I mean sometimes your turning back cows on the ranch and your close to them but this isnt done at a gallop. The cow isnt all cranked up. If it is all cranked up your just going to end up going to plan "B" anyways. Plus most of the time with me it seems that running the cow is the last thing you want to do if it can be helped. Example pregnate or sick cows that your putting in a corral to doctor.Better to rope and doctor on the spot than to run them down, or drive the cow with a group to where you need to go. If your moving cow/calves and a group of calves make a break for it and you know you cant get them all by yourself, let them go. They will find there way back to where you started and they will be easier to catch in a couple of days<laughing>.
Okay here is another thing. The typical reined cow horses that I see in town is a 14.2hh QH with no whithers that takes a OO shoe. My idea of a real ranch horse would be an old style QH or an Appendix. Something atleast 15.2 with good bone and a decent size hoof under it.
I want something that has some speed. If a cow turns back, most of the time he does so when your a ways away from him, so he has a head start on you already. Even if its a calf and if the calf has some age on him he can go as fast or faster than a lot of these little QHs. If its a bigger animal that has to be roped it cant be easier on those smaller cutting style horses<ponies> that most are riding now a days? To me they are just geared to low. I want something thats built more like a heading/barrel horse. Real ranch cows are heavy, not all head and horns like the stuff they team rope in town.
What I have found is that most of the time your actually turning back more than one cow at once anyways. So whats needed is a horse that can cover some ground. If you have a half dozen cows trying to make a break for it at the same time you need more speed because the cows that are trying to make a get away are not all together. You have to be able to cover ground fast.
In show cutting which is in RCH its rare to see anything over 14.3HH. Most look like they are on little ponies. You see this trend with the team ropers to. Go to the agriplex and look. Most are riding ponies. Try buying a QH prospect around here. Because of showing most are breeding these small little cutting horse style of horses now a days.
Even if your just riding somewhere at a walk I would rather have the longer legged horse under me. Even if both horses walk out really good the longer legged horse is going to cover much more ground in the course of a day.
You know I wont advertise a horse anymore as a Ranch Horse. If I do I get calls from to many people who seem to think a ranch horse is just some dumb Dobbin that anybody can get on and kick around and pull around. The seem to equate ranch horse with "Dude Horse"
To me a real ranch bridle horse is a special thing. He is not only a reining horse but he is a top rope horse as well. You should be able to rope something, tie off to your horse and get down and doctor or do whatever happens to be needed to get done. Most team roping horses cant even do this, not alone show horses <reined cow horses>.
The ranch horse should be able to handle packing out a bloody Elk or having you balance a live<young> calf on his whithers while you mount him and give the calf a ride to where your going.
A real ranch horse should be able to help you find a new born calf on a snowy night. Im guessing they can smell a cow that goes off by herself in the brush to calve on a stormy night. I had one horse that was so smart that when I was trapping coyottes a few years ago I was useing blind traps<no bait>. After I had a trap set up I would bring my horse over to look at the trap site. If the horse snorted I would reset my trap because I knew from experience if it wouldnt suit him that it wouldnt catch a coyotte.
A real ranch horse is a cutting horse, but ranch cutting is different than show cutting. In show cutting the horse wants to be able to "draw" the cow. Yes he pushes as necessary but only to get the cow in the proper spot so that he can hold it there to show off his moves. If he leaks or drives the cow away its a bad thing in show cutting but this is what you want a true ranch horse to do that has a job to get done.
A real ranch horse is an all weather horse, he hooks onto a cow and gives chase on snowy side hills, crosses half frozen creeks, he does his sliding down snowy, icey hills, through the lodgepole pines, he would jump off a cliff if the cow he was chasing did so before he would quit and let it get away.
He is also a night horse. Lots of show horses<town horses> are not all that broke when you try to ride them at night. A real ranch horse always knows where camp is even if I dont <grin>
JMO But for a show guy to assume that his horse would atomaticaly be a top ranch horse, well this would be a mistake.
Soapweed
On my saddles the strings are screwed into the tree but they are covered with a conchos. Strings are easy to add and they are tough when screwed into the wooden tree.
For your rope I agree that with just a saddle string your rope doesnt stay in place well and your coils get all messed up. I think the string/rope fastener is more designed for team ropers who make a 6 second run, then get into the lineup and talk to other riders until its their turn to make another run.
Its easy to add a strap on your saddle with a buckle to fasten your rope to. A saddle maker could do a professional job in a few minutese for a few bucks. This strap has a proper name but I forget it the name of it. I bet Jinglebob could tell us what its called?
