• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

How do you packer blamers explain this? Part II

Tam, the border was closed for right at two years. R-CALF's injunction prolonged it for about two months. Let's make an analogy - how about a hockey analogy since you're in hockey country;

You just got 24 goals scored on you. "Bob" (USDA) popped you for 22 and "Doug" (R-CALF) scored the last 2 - but you're wailing about all the damage Doug did! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: You're funny!


Since you want to talk about the damage border closures do, why not talk about the damage Canada has done to other countries? Haven't you also closed your borders to others? Haven't your borders been closed to some for many years now?
 
Is Rcalf holding the border closed to OTM cattle?

This OTM thing is the second salmon run here in Canada ya'll.

Sending record amounts of boxed beef into the lucrative American market while we eat cow beef here in Canada. D1 cow topends in restaurants allowing profit while a ton of trim at blow out prices is keeping the upstarts from making any headway.

Good old capitalism in action. BS. BSEconomics I say. All that this UTM thing is about is power and control.
 
RobertMac said:
Tam said:
Who Prolonged it?

THE LAW! If there wasn't any legal grounds, the judge would have thrown it out. Now you are going to tell me R-CALF bought the judge...if that's the case, Tyson bought Strom! We have a legal system and it works. Get over it!
And Who did throw it out RobertMac Can you say THE LAW on Appeal. [/b]
 
RobertMac said:
Sandhusker said:
If I was on the city council, I'd look into ways to jack Tyson's property taxes thru the roof to make that empty plant enough of a drain they would open it back up or sell it. You would think there would be ways to use zoning, ordinances, whatever to make that plant the biggest cash-draining liability on Tyson's balance sheet.

Great Sandidni, you forget the Supreme Court Eminent Domain ruling? :twisted: :wink: :)

RM, I do say, I like the way you think!
 
RobertMac said:
Tam said:
Who Prolonged it?

THE LAW! If there wasn't any legal grounds, the judge would have thrown it out. Now you are going to tell me R-CALF bought the judge...if that's the case, Tyson bought Strom! We have a legal system and it works. Get over it!

I am elated to see you admit to the legality and ruling in Pickett case. The legal system works as you said. Tell your friends to "get over it". Thanks RM.
 
Sandhusker said:
Tam, the border was closed for right at two years. R-CALF's injunction prolonged it for about two months. Let's make an analogy - how about a hockey analogy since you're in hockey country;

You just got 24 goals scored on you. "Bob" (USDA) popped you for 22 and "Doug" (R-CALF) scored the last 2 - but you're wailing about all the damage Doug did! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: You're funny!


Since you want to talk about the damage border closures do, why not talk about the damage Canada has done to other countries? Haven't you also closed your borders to others? Haven't your borders been closed to some for many years now?


U.S. packers failing due to closed border
this document web posted: Wednesday March 16, 2005 20050317p5

By Mary MacArthur
Camrose bureau

When Wythe Wiley and a group of Iowa cattle producers built their own meat slaughtering plant in 2003, they believed they would finally have some control over their industry.

But the discovery of BSE in a Washington state cow and the continued closure of the Canadian border forced the plant to close only a year after it opened.

"It killed the packers," said Wiley, chair of the Iowa Quality Beef Supply Co-operative, which formed to supply local beef at a premium to the Iowa Quality Beef plant.

"It just started to become profitable and BSE came along and decimated that part of the operation," said Wiley.

While Iowa Quality Beef may be one of the first American casualties of the continued border closure to Canadian cattle, industry officials say it likely won't be the last.

Jeremy Russell, communications director with the National Meat Association, which represents small and medium-sized packing plants in the United States, said the temporary injunction that keeps the border closed must be reversed or many of its member plants are in danger of collapse.

"Unless the decision is reversed, U.S. jobs will be lost forever," said Russell.

The National Meat Association has tried two previous times to be granted intervener status in the R-CALF lawsuit, but was rejected by U.S. district court judge Richard Cebull. He is the judge that granted the injunction request from R-CALF to stop a March 7 scheduled border opening to Canadian cattle.

On March 10, the packer group filed an emergency appeal to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeal to see if a different judge would look more favourably on its case.

The packers want intervener status in the R-CALF case to present evidence of the economic hardship created by the border closure and they want R-CALF to post a bond to cover the losses from plants that can't get Canadian cattle.

Ted Schroeder, a Kansas State University agriculture economist, said losses to the American packing industry continue to grow each day. By the end of 2004 he estimated packing plants that had traditionally bought Canadian cattle had lost close to $1.7 billion in sales. The economic spinoff from the reduced shifts and the closure of some plants has cost the industry 5,000 jobs, worth about $282 million a year.

"It is much more severe in certain regions than others," said Schroeder. "In the long run some of the plants will continue to stay closed."

When the border first closed many producers and packers believed it was wise to create a separation between the beef industry in the two countries, but few people believed the border closure would last as long as it has.

"I'm surprised it was closed this long. It's not in the hands of the scientists or the economists, but in the hands of the politicians and judges," Schroeder said.

His research shows the border closure has created an incentive for Canadians to invest in further beef processing.

Gary Mickelson, manager of communications with Tyson Foods, said the continued border closure was a factor in his company's decision to temporarily suspend operation at four of its U.S. beef plants and drop a second shift at another in January. While the plants are back in operation, they are on reduced shifts.

"The border closure was a factor in that decision," said Mickelson
.

Tyson buys three to five percent of its cattle from Canada. Some of its plants in Washington and Idaho received 10-20 percent of their cattle from Canada.

"When we got word of the injunction, we were very disappointed with the delay in the reopening. We hope this matter can be resolved quickly. As USDA has said, there's no scientific reason for keeping the border closed," said Mickelson.

In the United States, Cargill Meat Solutions announced it would make additional staff cuts at its seven U.S. beef plants because of the continued border closure.

"What we fear, as does industry, is if we lose some of those plants in the U.S. they don't just come back the next day.

"The fear is once a plant is gone, it's gone. In the short term there might be some producers in the U.S. that think the economics right now are on their side. That's a very short-term view. What's best for the industry is normalized trade and an open border," said Robert Meijer, director of public affairs with Cargill in Winnipeg.

Karen Batra, public affairs director with the National Cattlemen's Beef Association, said it too believes there is danger in keeping the border closed.

"It's going to adversely affect the packing capacity here in the United States," said Batra.

Steve Kay, editor of Cattle Buyers Weekly, said while packing plants that normally slaughter fed or finished cattle have been affected, the plants that slaughter older cows have had the real blow.

"Cow processors have been under very severe pressure because the border has remained closed," said Kay. "There's not much relief in sight for those guys," said Kay.

He predicted many of the smaller cattle processing plants will close, accelerating the concentration of the packing industry into the larger plants

Now where was your concerns for the employees and the communities when these plants cut shift and closed because of R-CALF's injunction?
AND from Mar 7 2005 to July 14 2005 is not two months Sandhusker, It was long enough that the uncertainty of the supply of cattle closed some plants and damaged others viability.
 
It is truly AMAZING :???: how far off topic people can go to keep everyone from thinking about the original topic!

Now where was your concerns for the employees and the communities when these plants cut shift and closed because of R-CALF's injunction?

Gee, Tam, how much was RCALF offered by cities to operate there?
What? NOthing! Then this has NOTHING to do with the original topic, does it?

How many people did RCALF promise to employ?
Again, nothing! Whoa, where do you come up with these thoughts?

How many immigrant and illegal workers did RCALF bring to this community?
Did RCALF cause the city to hire more police to handle the increase in crime due to the influx of cheap laborers?
Did RCALF cause the city to redo sewer treatment, water, roads, fire protection and EMS, schools, hospitals, etc. to handle the new workers?

Guess the original topic and your random thoughts aren't very close in nature, are they? :!:
 
agman said:
RobertMac said:
Tam said:
Who Prolonged it?

THE LAW! If there wasn't any legal grounds, the judge would have thrown it out. Now you are going to tell me R-CALF bought the judge...if that's the case, Tyson bought Strom! We have a legal system and it works. Get over it!

I am elated to see you admit to the legality and ruling in Pickett case. The legal system works as you said. Tell your friends to "get over it". Thanks RM.

Agman, you know as I that to get a judgement as a matter of law there has to be no dispute as to the facts and their legal/illegality. The question was whether Tyson used marketing agreements illegally, not whether or not they could be used legitimately at any time. Your whole argument rests upon this assumption which is nothing other than a slight of hand. We have all seen this tactic in arguments on this board. Judges should be able to catch this but maybe you can tell us what was going on with Strom.

Here is a fairly understandable discussion of rule 56:

Summary judgment
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Summary judgement)
Jump to: navigation, search
Civil Procedure

* Federal Rules of Civil Procedure
* Civil Procedure Rules 1998
* Doctrines of civil procedure
* Jurisdiction
o Subject matter jurisdiction
o Personal jurisdiction
o Proper venue
* Pleadings and motions
o Service of process
o Complaint
+ Cause of action
o Demurrer
o Answer
+ Affirmative defense
o Reply
* Pre-trial procedure
o Discovery
o Interrogatories
* Resolution Without Trial
o Default Judgment
o Summary Judgment
o Voluntary dismissal
o Involuntary dismissal
o Settlement
* Trial
o Parties
+ Defendant
+ Plaintiff
o Burden of proof
o Judgment
+ Judgment as a matter of law (JMOL)
+ Renewed JMOL (JNOV)
+ Motion to set aside judgment
+ New trial
+ Remedy
* Appeal

view /edit this template

Summary judgment is a legal term which means that a court has made a determination (a judgment) without a full trial.

In Common Law legal systems, issues of law, that is to say, what the law actually is in a particular case are decided by the judge, except when jury nullification of the law acts to contravene or complement the instructions or orders of the judge, or other officers of the court. A factfinder has to decide what the facts are and apply the law. In traditional Common Law the factfinder was a jury, but in many jurisdictions the judge now acts as the factfinder as well. It is the factfinder who decides "what really happened," and it is the judge who applies the law to the facts as determined by the factfinder, whether directly or by giving instructions to the jury. Absent an award of summary judgment (or some other type of pretrial dismissal), a lawsuit will ordinarily proceed to trial, which is an opportunity for each party to present evidence in an attempt to persuade the factfinder that such party is saying "what really happened," and that, under the judge's view of applicable law, such party should prevail. For a case to get to trial, the parties have to take various steps (often known as 'directions'), including disclosing your documents to your opponent discovery, showing the other side your evidence, often in the form of witness statements and other steps.

Complying with such directions, and going through the trial process is lengthy, can be difficult, and if one employs lawyers, can be costly.

A party moving (applying) for summary judgment is attempting to eliminate its risk of losing at trial, and possibly avoid having to go through the directions by demonstrating to the judge, by sworn statements and documentary evidence, that there are no material issues of fact remaining to be tried. If there's nothing for the jury to decide, then, asks the moving party rhetorically, why have a trial? In its motion (request) for summary judgment, the moving party will also attempt to persuade the court that the undisputed material facts require judgment to be entered in favor of the moving party. In many jurisdictions, a party moving for summary judgment takes the risk that, although the judge may agree there are no material issues of fact remaining for trial, the judge may also find that it is the non-moving party who is entitled to judgment as a matter of law.
Contents
[hide]

* 1 Example
* 2 Specific Jurisdictions
o 2.1 United States
o 2.2 England and Wales
o 2.3 See also

[edit]

Example

A simple example of summary judgment, based upon a United States jurisdiction would be as follows:

The following facts are not disputed by the parties to the lawsuit: There has been a collision at a traffic intersection between two cars approaching the intersection from different directions. There is a traffic light at the intersection that was in good operating condition at the time of the collision, meaning that, if the light facing one party was green, then the light facing the other was red. Neither party has suffered any personal injury, and each has suffered $5,000 in resulting damage to his car.

One driver (the "plaintiff") makes a civil claim, alleging that the other driver (the "defendant") was responsible for the collision and should be liable to judgment in the amount of $5,000. The plaintiff alleges that the light facing him was green, and that the light facing the defendant must therefore have been red. On the other hand, the defendant alleges that his light was green and the plaintiff's red, and therefore files a mirror-image counterclaim against the plaintiff.

Let's assume that, early in the case, the judge has informed the lawyers of her view of applicable law, as follows: A driver may not lawfully enter an intersection against a red light, and, if he does so, he violates the law, and thereby becomes liable to another driver for any damage arising out of a collision caused by the violation. (This is a deliberate oversimplification of the law, intended only for purposes of this example.) The only disputed fact which the judge regards as "material" to resolution of the case (and therefore appropriate to be tried to a jury) appears to be whether the red light faced the plaintiff or the defendant. If it faced the plaintiff, the defendant wins; if it faced the defendant, the plaintiff wins.

Now let's make some assumptions about the state of the evidence in the possession of each party: The defendant is able to produce evidence showing that the light facing him was green at the time of the collision, including a certified copy of a photograph taken by an automated camera operated by the traffic authorities, as well as sworn statements (known as "affidavits") of three eyewitnesses who saw the whole incident from beginning to end. The plaintiff, on the other hand, has no evidence to show the contrary; no eyewitness testimony (even his own), no photographs, and no other evidence.

In such a case, the defendant might well move for summary judgment. In support of the motion, the defendant would produce to the judge his photograph and affidavits showing that the light facing him was green. In opposing the motion, the plaintiff would not be permitted to rest upon the unsubstantiated allegations contained in his complaint. Rather, to survive the motion, the plaintiff would be required to show the judge whatever evidence he intends to produce at trial to persuade rational jurors, reaching a verdict based upon the evidence, that his own light was green, and the defendant's red. In our example, however, the plaintiff will be unable to show the judge any evidence sufficient to persuade such a juror that his light was green, so there would be no point in conducting a trial. It would be appropriate, under such circumstances, for the judge to grant the defendant's motion for summary judgment dismissing the plaintiff's claim, and sustaining the defendant's counterclaim.
[edit]

Specific Jurisdictions
[edit]

United States

In U.S. legal practice summary judgment can be awarded by the court prior to trial, effectively holding that no trial will be necessary. Issuance of summary judgment can be based only upon the court's finding that:

1. there are no issues of "material" fact requiring a trial for their resolution, and
2. in applying the law to the undisputed facts, one party is clearly entitled to judgment.

A party making a motion for summary judgment (or making any other motion) is called a "moving party." A "material fact" is one which, depending upon what the factfinder believes "really happened," could lead to judgment in favor of one party, rather than the other. A simple example of summary judgment is provided below.


A party moving for summary judgment may refer to any evidence that would be admissible if there were to be a trial, such as, depositions, party admissions, documents received during discovery (such as contracts, emails, letters, and certified government documents). Each party may present to the court its view of applicable law by submitting a legal memorandum in support of, or in opposition to, the motion. The court may allow for oral argument of the lawyers, generally where the judge wishes to question the lawyers on issues in the case.

Summary judgment is awarded if the undisputed facts and the law make it clear that it would be impossible for one party to prevail if the matter were to proceed to trial. The court must consider all materials in the light most favorable to the party opposing the motion for summary judgment. See Adickes v. S.H. Kress & Co., 398 U.S. 144, (1970), and Celotex v. Catrett, 477 U.S. 317 (1986).

If a trial could result in the jury (or judge in a bench trial) deciding in favor of the party opposing the motion, then summary judgment is inappropriate. A decision granting summary judgment can be appealed without delay. A decision denying summary judgment ordinarily cannot be immediately appealed; instead, the case continues on its normal course. In United States federal courts, a denial of summary judgment cannot be appealed until final resolution of the whole case, because of the requirements of 28 U.S.C. 1291 and 28 U.S.C. 1292 (the final judgment rule).

Where appropriate, a court may award summary judgment upon less than all claims, known as "partial summary judgment."

It is not uncommon for summary judgments of lower U.S. courts in complex cases to be overturned on appeal. A grant of summary judgment is reviewed "de novo" (meaning, without deference to the views of the trial judge) both as to the determination that there is no remaining genuine issue of material fact and that the prevailing party was entitled to judgment as a matter of law.

A motion for summary judgment in United States District Court is governed by Rule 56 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. Other pretrial motions, such as a "motion for judgment on the pleadings" or a "motion to dismiss for failure to state a claim upon which relief may be granted," can be converted by the judge to motions for summary judgment, if matters outside the pleadings are presented to -- and not excluded by -- the trial-court judge.

The judge decided the case on a slight of hand. It had nothing to do with the proper use of rule 56. He should know better. Guns don't kill, people who use them do. The gun lobby has already been successful on this point and it too is written in law (in the constitution).
 
agman said:
RobertMac said:
Tam said:
Who Prolonged it?

THE LAW! If there wasn't any legal grounds, the judge would have thrown it out. Now you are going to tell me R-CALF bought the judge...if that's the case, Tyson bought Strom! We have a legal system and it works. Get over it!

I am elated to see you admit to the legality and ruling in Pickett case. The legal system works as you said. Tell your friends to "get over it". Thanks RM.

Agman, my problem with the Pickett case is that Judge Strom circumvented the system. If the evidence was so flawed, it should have never gone to trial...but having gone to trial and to the jury, the jury verdict should have stood. Then Tyson would have appealed as the loser and have to convince the Appeal judges to over turn the jury verdict. This may very well have happened, but Judge Strom reversing the rolls in appeal was wrong and implied favoritism to Tyson.
 
RobertMac said:
agman said:
RobertMac said:
THE LAW! If there wasn't any legal grounds, the judge would have thrown it out. Now you are going to tell me R-CALF bought the judge...if that's the case, Tyson bought Strom! We have a legal system and it works. Get over it!

I am elated to see you admit to the legality and ruling in Pickett case. The legal system works as you said. Tell your friends to "get over it". Thanks RM.

Agman, my problem with the Pickett case is that Judge Strom circumvented the system. If the evidence was so flawed, it should have never gone to trial...but having gone to trial and to the jury, the jury verdict should have stood. Then Tyson would have appealed as the loser and have to convince the Appeal judges to over turn the jury verdict. This may very well have happened, but Judge Strom reversing the rolls in appeal was wrong and implied favoritism to Tyson.

They needed to make case law so they could gut the Packers and Stockyards Act and give GIPSA an excuse to do NOTHING about market abuses. Anyone following the London case would realize what the 11th circuit was doing. In order to prevail in this scheme the had to have the acquiesence of Saxby Chambliss et al since the 11th circuit is comprised of Florida, Georgia, and Alabama. They also needed a little bit of blessing from the judiciary committee. Go get the public citizen report and see who was getting the packer money for the COOL delay. They already had Arlen Specter in their pocket.

Here is the setup in the Judiciary Committee:

independent judiciary line
line About Us Action Center Contribute Resources News line
line
the nomination process the courts the nominees the senate
line
line
The Nomination Process: The Senate

1. The U.S. Constitution requires that the president's appointments to the federal bench be made with the advice and consent of the Senate. Thus, the Senate must approve all nominees before they are appointed to the bench. Once appointed, federal judges serve for life unless they resign or are removed through the impeachment process.

2. When the Senate receives a nomination from the President, it sends the nomination to the Senate Judiciary Committee for consideration.

more

Upcoming Senate Events

For a full list of events, click here to view the Judiciary Committee web site.

Members of the Senate Judiciary Committee
(Click on each Senator's name for biography and contact information)

* Joseph R. Biden (D - DE)
* Sam Brownback (R - KS)
* John Cornyn (R - TX)
* Mike DeWine (R - OH)
* Richard Durbin (D - IL)
* Russell Feingold (D - WI)
* Dianne Feinstein (D - CA)
* Lindsey Graham (R - SC)
* Chuck Grassley (R - IA)
* Orrin G. Hatch (R - UT)
* Edward M. Kennedy (D - MA)
* Herb Kohl (D - WI)
* Jon Kyl (R - AZ)
* Patrick Leahy- (Ranking Member) (D - VT)
* Charles E. Schumer (D - NY)
* Jeff Sessions (R - AL)
* Arlen Specter (R - PA),
Judiciary Chairman

For the website to click the above go here:

http://www.independentjudiciary.com/senate/
 
Rod: "SH, READ! The table showing the $12 million loss was NOT an operating margin report. Don't try and confuse the issues with your smoke and mirrors. The $12 million loss INCLUDED interest."

Once again, Tyson's financial report shows operating margins. Tyson's operating margin is what is reported To GIPSA. Operating margins are before interest and taxes. Tyson's per head profits THAT YOU QUESTION are based from the operating margins they report to GIPSA.

Why do you insist on continually diverting the issue? YOU WERE THE ONE WHO QUESTIONED THEIR REPORTED PROFITS? What did you have to disprove them? NOTHING! All you offered is some half baked comparison of retail beef prices attributed to the entire carcass revealing your ignorance. I kept adding costs and you kept shaving. The fact that you had to shave ANYTHING proves that you didn't have a clue from the start. Then you claim that I still didn't come up with $3.88 per head AS IF THAT WAS ALWAYS THEIR MARGIN and AS IF I WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR DISPROVING YOUR HALF BAKED ANALOGY?????

The bottom line, is that you proved you knew nothing about the retail beef industry because you didn't know anything about carcass yield, trim, shrink, "featured prices", discarded product, etc, etc,

Like a typical blamer, you make a shallow observation and create an "ILLUSION" that you think supports your bias. YOU PROVED NOTHING OTHER THAN HOW IGNORANT YOU ARE.

The packer profits that you question is based on Tyson's operating margin. You believe that Tyson hides their losses behind expansions. That is simply not true and you have not brought one iota of proof to suggest otherwise. Like most packer blamers, you are long on theory and short on fact.

What expansions did Tyson make IN THEIR BEEF OPERATIONS in 2005 to account for your theory on expansion hiding losses???

BRING IT ROD!

That's your allegation, now step up to the plate and back it.


Rod: "I guess I need to explain this to you as well. The difference between what the packers paid for the product and what the packers recieved for the product is the GROSS PROFIT."

I understand that. You were questioning their "NET PROFIT".


Rod: "Since you said you knew what the packer's costs were, I thought it was perfectly reasonable to ask you to provide them to me so we could work a NET PROFIT. Instead, you copped out."

Spin job! You were the one who questioned Tyson's "NET PROFIT" then come up with your ridiculous analogy of taking retail beef prices and afixing it to the entire carcass proving your ignorance.

Where did I say that I knew what the packer's costs were (IMPLYING ALL COSTS)??? Bring the quote Rod!

WHY WOULD YOU ASK ME TO PROVIDE YOU WITH THE PACKER'S EXPENSES IF YOU SUPPOSEDLY KNEW THEIR REPORTED PROFITS WERE INACCURATE?????

See how you packer blamers operate? You make an allegation that you cannot prove (reported packer profits are not accurate) then you expect someone else to disprove it. YOU NEED TO BACK YOUR ALLEGATION, NOT HAVE SOMEONE ELSE DISPROVE IT. Sheeeesh!


Rod: "More smoke SH. I calculated it all with YOUR 40% red meat yield on an animal that went purely for hamburger. I reduced the packers margins as much as I could on a product with as little markup as I could find and still came out way ahead of what you said was the packers margin."

You proved nothing! Not only did you miss the Red meat yield which is a real "no brainer", you missed the trim, you missed the shrink, you missed the cut outs for bruising and lesions, you missed the "featured prices" (I recently saw ground beef advertised for $.99 per pound to move product), you missed the product that was discarded, you missed a number of expenses and you didn't even touch what you thought retailers should get to trim, package, label, display, and sell the product.

YOU DIDN'T KNOW A DAMN THING ABOUT RETAIL PROFITS and you proved it with your shallow, half-baked analogy of affixing a retail beef price to the entire carcass.

Try as you will to dance around it, you proved nothing other than how little you know about the retail beef industry. If you are bold enough to make the claim that Tyson's profits are not accurate, you should be bold enough to back your smack with more than half baked analogies.


Rod: "Engage your brain SH. The $23 differential is less than 5 cents/lb on a typical carcass. That wouldn't even be close to enough to influence consumer demand on a scale grand enough to accomplish what you are suggesting would happen."

You're the one who doesn't have his brain engaged. If a packer can process an animal for $23 less per head and we ASSUME that they both get the same value for the carcass and the beef by products, CONSUMERS DO NOT HAVE TO ABSORB THAT COST BECAUSE THEY HAVE OTHER PROTEINS TO CHOOSE FROM. Not every consumer out there has the same amount of money to spend. That $23 will come from the producer because packer blamers like you fail to understand that more packers does not equate to more money for producers.


Rod: "I find it odd how I when I use the grain industry to illustrate how concentration has hurt the small producer, you say "Oh that doesn't count. Its different.", but then you turn around and say something like this. So concentration in the grain industry doesn't count? Why not? Because it helps to prove my point?"

Concentration "ALLEGED" to create problems in the grain industry does not prove that concentration in the beef industry is causing the same problems. We are talking about the "BEEF INDUSTRY". The "GRAIN INDUSTRY" is a diversion from the "BEEF INDUSTRY". You need to prove how concentration in the packing industry is negative for the "BEEF INDUSTRY" but you can't so you try to create an "ILLUSION" with grain industry "ALLEGATIONS" that I can't disprove. Stick to the beef industry.

We just had the highest feeder cattle prices ever recorded in the United States with the same level of packer concentration and virtually the same level of captive supplies.

HOW CAN THAT BE if packer concentration and captive supplies are the reason for lower cattle prices???

Sometimes the obvious is just too obvious for a packer blamer.


~SH~
 
~SH said:
Once again, Tyson's financial report shows operating margins. Tyson's operating margin is what is reported To GIPSA. Operating margins are before interest and taxes. Tyson's per head profits THAT YOU QUESTION are based from the operating margins they report to GIPSA.

Since this is getting rediculous, I'm only going to say this once more and then back out. The books I posted links to were NOT GIPSA OPERATING MARGINS. Where in the those books did it say a word about GIPSA? Nowhere. Not one single area. Those were net operating margins, NOT GIPSA OPERATING MARGINS. Margins that BY LAW required interest and capital depreciation to be removed before being reported to the shareholders. If GIPSA takes operating margins BEFORE interest and capital expenditures, these weren't the numbers they'd take.

~SH said:
YOU PROVED NOTHING OTHER THAN HOW IGNORANT YOU ARE.

I'm embarassed for you SH. All you have is bluster and monumental lack of comprehension of how books and business work.

~SH said:
What expansions did Tyson make IN THEIR BEEF OPERATIONS in 2005 to account for your theory on expansion hiding losses???

Expenditures in 2005 won't be written off until 2006. Expenditures in past years would written off against the 2005 books. Hell a new machine bought in 2000 would still show on the 2005 books as a write off. SH, please quit arguing books and bookeeping. Its obvious you have no practical knowledge and you are only embarassing yourself and further weakening your position.

~SH said:
Concentration "ALLEGED" to create problems in the grain industry does not prove that concentration in the beef industry is causing the same problems. We are talking about the "BEEF INDUSTRY". The "GRAIN INDUSTRY" is a diversion from the "BEEF INDUSTRY". You need to prove how concentration in the packing industry is negative for the "BEEF INDUSTRY" but you can't so you try to create an "ILLUSION" with grain industry "ALLEGATIONS" that I can't disprove. Stick to the beef industry.

So you can use concentration in the retail business electronics sector as a valid comparison, yet utilizing the grain industry which is more closely related to livestock is wrong? Oie.

I'm out. SH, when you are willing to debate matters in a logical fashion with sound business knowledge, and without bluster and insults, I'll do so.

Rod
 
the chief said:
It is truly AMAZING :???: how far off topic people can go to keep everyone from thinking about the original topic!

Tam: Now where was your concerns for the employees and the communities when these plants cut shift and closed because of R-CALF's injunction?

Chief: Gee, Tam, how much was RCALF offered by cities to operate there?
What? NOthing! Then this has NOTHING to do with the original topic, does it?
Chief R-CAlf may not have recieved the incentive but can you tell us wheither the plants that closed because of R-CALF's injunction recieved incentive from the cities they built in?

Chief: How many people did RCALF promise to employ? Again, nothing! Whoa, where do you come up with these thoughts?
The question is how many employees did the plants that were force to close BECAUSE OF R-CALF's INJUNCTION PROMISE TO EMPLOY AND HAD TO LAY OFF BECAUSE OF R-CALFS INJUNCTION ?

Chief: How many immigrant and illegal workers did RCALF bring to this community?
Does it really matter who brought them in Chief they are in these cities and they need jobs. By closing plants with an injunction or closing them because of economic loses it doesn't matter they are still in those cities and they will need other jobs.

Chief: Did RCALF cause the city to hire more police to handle the increase in crime due to the influx of cheap laborers?
Where was your concern when it was the towns that R-CALF's injunction closed the plant? Did those towns not invest money in extra Police to cover the increase in crime due to the influx in cheap labor?


Chief: Did RCALF cause the city to redo sewer treatment, water, roads, fire protection and EMS, schools, hospitals, etc. to handle the new workers?
Where was your concern when it was R-CALF's Injunction that closed down the plants and those cities had redone sewer treatment, water, roads, fire protection and EMS, schools, hospitals, etc. to handle the new workers?

Chief: Guess the original topic and your random thoughts aren't very close in nature, are they?
It comes down to You R-CALFers showing concern now that it is Tyson but you showed no concern for the cities or the employees when the R-CALF injunction caused the plants to close. These employees were just illegals brought in to take US citizen jobs and they didn't add anything to the US economy because they just send their paychecks back home. You felt no pity for the towns in which the plant sat in or the people that were affected by the lose of spin off jobs. But now you are all over Tyson for closing two plants because they are loosing money. Just another R-CALF flip flop it is OK for R-CALF to cause plant closures with their prolonged border closure, for the protection of your bottom line, but damn Tyson if they try protect their bottom line by closing any plants that were loosing money :roll: :roll:
I ask you Chief, Tyson said
"We've worked hard over the past year to try to keep these plants open and I appreciate everyone's efforts. However, we've concluded we can operate more efficiently by permanently consolidating operations.
Did R-CALF try to keep any of the plants that they caused the closure of, open for a year or did they even care they were causing the closure of plants that provided job to thousands in direct and spin off jobs?
 
Tam, "AND from Mar 7 2005 to July 14 2005 is not two months Sandhusker, It was long enough that the uncertainty of the supply of cattle closed some plants and damaged others viability."

My bad. Bob scored 22 and Doug 4. That dang Doug is the problem! :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Sandhusker said:
Tam, "AND from Mar 7 2005 to July 14 2005 is not two months Sandhusker, It was long enough that the uncertainty of the supply of cattle closed some plants and damaged others viability."

My bad. Bob scored 22 and Doug 4. That dang Doug is the problem! :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Where was your concern when the R-CALF injunction closed the plants Sandhusker?
 
Tam said:
Sandhusker said:
Tam, "AND from Mar 7 2005 to July 14 2005 is not two months Sandhusker, It was long enough that the uncertainty of the supply of cattle closed some plants and damaged others viability."

My bad. Bob scored 22 and Doug 4. That dang Doug is the problem! :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Where was your concern when the R-CALF injunction closed the plants Sandhusker?

Blaming any packing plant closures on R-CALF is like blaming the Sheriff for breaking up a home after he arrested the father. You're so filled with hate you have lost any ability to reason.
 
Blaming any packing plant closures on R-CALF is like blaming the Sheriff for breaking up a home after he arrested the father. You're so filled with hate you have lost any ability to reason.

Why don't you send her a dartboard with a picture of Leo or Bill on it so that she can release some of her anger and hate?

She's obviously a nervous wreck and it might help Big Muddy out too!
 
Sandhusker said:
Tam said:
Sandhusker said:
Tam, "AND from Mar 7 2005 to July 14 2005 is not two months Sandhusker, It was long enough that the uncertainty of the supply of cattle closed some plants and damaged others viability."

My bad. Bob scored 22 and Doug 4. That dang Doug is the problem! :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Where was your concern when the R-CALF injunction closed the plants Sandhusker?

Blaming any packing plant closures on R-CALF is like blaming the Sheriff for breaking up a home after he arrested the father. You're so filled with hate you have lost any ability to reason.

Deny THIS Sandhusker
Jeremy Russell, communications director with the National Meat Association, which represents small and medium-sized packing plants in the United States, said the temporary injunction that keeps the border closed must be reversed or many of its member plants are in danger of collapse.

"Unless the decision is reversed, U.S. jobs will be lost forever
,"
and this
The packers want intervener status in the R-CALF case to present evidence of the economic hardship created by the border closure and they want R-CALF to post a bond to cover the losses from plants that can't get Canadian cattle.
and this
the continued border closure was a factor in his company's decision to temporarily suspend operation at four of its U.S. beef plants and drop a second shift at another in January. While the plants are back in operation, they are on reduced shifts. "The border closure was a factor in that decision," said Mickelson
. and this
"When we got word of the injunction, we were very disappointed with the delay in the reopening. We hope this matter can be resolved quickly.
and this
Cargill Meat Solutions announced it would make additional staff cuts at its seven U.S. beef plants because of the continued border closure.
Who's injunction that prolonged the border closure caused these plants to close and cut shifts Sandhusker? and where was your concern for those plants that closed because of the PROLONGED BORDER CLOSUSE CAUSED BY THE R-CALF INJUNCTION? Who knows maybe it was the prolonged border closure that weakened these two plants ability to be profitable, Tyson did say they have been trying hard for a year to keep the plants open maybe the loses they took because of the R-CALFs injunction took out these two too.
 
I'm going to start a new thread for you, Tam. I'm going to explain it once as simple as I can, not that it will do any good.

I'll answer your last post with my same "Blame the Sheriff" analogy. You're blaming the wrong outfit.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top