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How long should a bull be guaranteed?

A

alabama

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Feb 11, 2005
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Alabama
Last night about 8:30, I get a call from a woman that bought one of my yearling bulls at the December 2004 bull test. She bought the calf two years ago at the auction following the test. This woman, whom I do not know, tells me that she is a Limousine breeder and that she bought the bull to breed her heifers. She put the bull in with nine heifers the first year and got one calf. Now this year she has the bull in with three heifers and they are still open so he is not getting the job done.
What she wants to do is swap him for another bull. I have some others yearlings to swap and I am willing to swap. She wants to come to my farm whitch is 3 hours drive from her place and look at he replacements.
What concerns me is that she did not pay very much for the first calf and should be able to get her money back by taking him to the stockyard if she has kept him in good shape. I am also concerned that she did not call the first year when she had trouble. By the way, the bull was seamen tested before he was sold and tested fine.
What would you do after two years?
 
I'd have him tested again. If he tests fine, it could be her heifers. Maybe they aren't in good enuff shape to cycle or somethin. Never know but I'd test the bull again, before I did any swappin.
 
I sell reg Angus.....most of them sell before they are 1 yr old, thus no guarantee.

BUT...I had something like this happen to me. I had MY vet go & ck out the bull in question. It was bought @ weaning and by the time the complaint came in the bull was a bit over 2 yrs. Same complaints and I didn't know the guy either.

Soooo..my vet went to ck out the bull & I went as a " vet tech" undercover.. He had scads of calves from my bull. thing was he'd found another bull he liked better and prices @ the stockyards were not so good. So he admited to the vet that he really wanted me to take the bull back....give him his money back so he couild go & get this new bull!!!


Bottom line....get plenty of info on this deal BEFORE you agree to swap anything out. People will do just about thing these days!!

I went back home w/o blowing my cover...called him back and repeated what he'd told my vet and that was the end of that.
 
I'd say it's up to your own judgement on this particular situation. Sounds like you've got genuine concern for the lady and want to see things work out for her. At the same time, the first breeding season is long gone and she never contacted you until way late. Nobody could say that you are obligated to replace the bull at this point. JMO

HP
 
This is a "danged if you do, and danged if you don't situation".

I have found it better to not argue and do whatever it takes to satisfy the buyer, within reason of course.

Either give her the money back for the bull, then sell him. Or swap him out. The amount originally paid has no bearing on the deal because you allowed him to sell for that price.

That way she can't say anything negative about you. (And believe me she will)

You reputation is worth more than money if you plan to stay in for the long haul.
 
All good answers. I will be glad to swap him out if he is not hurt or in real bad shape. To swap a yearling for a 3 year old ain't so bad. By the way this bull is a very well bred bull. A 6I6 calf out of a future direction dam.
 
I would just refund her money towards a new bull have her sell it and if she paid a $1000 for it and it brings $900 you would in turn give credit of the $100 towards the price of a new bull.Just because she got a bargain on the 1st bull does'nt mean you have to sell her another one at the same price.
 
Make sure she brings the bull back and you sell it-my friend got stung by telling them to just can the bull and send him a cheque. He sent a replacement bull but they shipped the first one and bought it back. Kind of got two bulls for the price of one.
 
Another thing to consider is why did the heifers not catch? Trichaminiasis comes to mind. It's tough to say, but I agree with Northern, take the bull back and then you've got the reassurance of seeing him. If you tell her to sell him, you'll always wonder if she did or not.
 
Oh yeah. I will swap him out and get the three year old back. That will tell me all I need to know. And I can keep a good rep.
 
We bought a 18 month old bull in May before turnout.
The bull got lame, and we had plenty of bulls, so we weren't concerned.
The bull swelled up in one front leg and then in the other and
was lame. We didn't use him all breeding season. Took him
to the vet and ran some antibiotic in him. No one knows what
the problem is. I called the seller and he said to take the bull to
the sale, keep the money and he would give us the difference
in what he brought and what we paid as a credit on another
bull.

Today the bulls legs don't look right, still thicker looking than
what is normal, but he's not lame now.
We don't know what to do with him as we do like him. Guess
we'll see how it turns out.

Alabama, after the length of time she's had that bull, you
aren't obligated to do anything. Bull guarantees in our country
are for the first breeding season only.

We all are aware that Limousin heifers can be hard to breed
and especially certain lines of them.
 
Im not so sure that I would tend to this issue like some others. I think a first season breeding guarantee is sufficient. We've had stuff like this happen in the past and just told folks that it is beyond our control after the first breeding year.

I think this lady or whoever should have contacted you after the first year. Could be her fault os to why he's not getting cows covered. If he went through the test, had a breeding soundness exam to go through the sale, then thats all you need for a guarantee the first year.

A few years ago when we still sold some Hereford bulls, a guy called and said the Hereford bull broke himself. Told him to sell him at the yards, we'd give him some credit on another bull, but bring the sale sheet with him. He brought the tag for an Angus bull he sold, and he hadn't ever bought an Angus bull from us. We told him to take a hike.
 
It's your business but I'd have him ck'ed out BEFORE he came back to my place and before I agreed to take him back!
 
Our family has been in the seedstock business for over 60 years and believe me we've seen pretty well it all. You're under NO obligation to do anything after this length of time and any decision to help is above and beyond in the area of customer service. I would recquest a current vet check on the bull (and perhaps an evaluation of the management and credibility of the customer). We seldom bring any bulls back home (health concerns) and would rather have the bull shipped and offer a credit towards the purchase of a replacement. Most people are very straight forward and honest but there are some out there that will make you want to quit the business after trying to deal with them! This situation sounds like either a very naive producer or a serious health/genetic or just plain mismanagement.
 
Alabama,
Send a vet of your choice to her farm. Have him test the semen (at your expense). If he is fertile, then make your decision based on that. I know way to many people who have been done over in this type of situation. However if he is a fantastic bull maybe you want him back anyhow :) You want to be the good guy here so just have him tested. YOU PICK THE VET THOUGH!!!!!!
 
I'm just wondering, does she have the bull insured? We always insure our bulls, and if we find a problem with them after the first year, we have them checked out by a vet. If there is a problem, he recommends we sell the bull, we contact the insurance company, sell him, show them the check, and then they pay out the difference between the check and what the bull is insured for. We get all our money back, take it and go bull shopping again.

As far as I see, alabama, you have no obligations to guarantee that bull after the second breeding season.
 
cowsense said:
Our family has been in the seedstock business for over 60 years and believe me we've seen pretty well it all. You're under NO obligation to do anything after this length of time and any decision to help is above and beyond in the area of customer service. I would recquest a current vet check on the bull (and perhaps an evaluation of the management and credibility of the customer). We seldom bring any bulls back home (health concerns) and would rather have the bull shipped and offer a credit towards the purchase of a replacement. Most people are very straight forward and honest but there are some out there that will make you want to quit the business after trying to deal with them! This situation sounds like either a very naive producer or a serious health/genetic or just plain mismanagement.
Click to expand...

Good advice...

'Bama don't bring him home!!!! You have no idea what he's packing! A Vegas hooker could be cleaner than he is. Don't bring that home!!! It's just not good biosecurity, herd health, or worth the risk to your own herd's health!

I think cowsense nailed it on the rest too.

Cheers and good luck---

TTB :wink:
 
Well the lady ain't called back so maybe she just took him to the sale barn. If she does bring him back and his body condition is less than a 5 she can keep him. If he is a 5 or better I will pin him alone and take him to the sale barn on the next sale.
Thank you for all the great advice.
 
Updated:
Well she called Tuesday evening about 6:30 and said, "We got him caught and he is in the trailer. Can we bring him back in the morning?"
I gave her directions and they got to my house about noon. I had them take him to a friends catch pin in an empty pasture just down the road where we let him out. When the bull stepped off the trailer all I could do was have pity for him. The poor guy was a very well bred carcass bull that looked the part when I sold him. Although he was still a very deep bull and still had, a very nice profile but he had been stunted and did not have an ounce of fat on him. When he turned sideways to us, the owner said, "look he is fat as a pig." By this time, I am mad but I controlled myself and said nothing. We left and went to the bull pasture and I caught the yearlings. While I was sorting them, without any help I may add, she stated that they sure were small. I said, "They are only 12 months old and weigh 1100 to 1200 pounds.
When they left, I hooked up my trailer and took the poor bull to the stockyard. He will sell in the sale today. I ask that they run a BSE on him before the sale just so I can have the results for my records.
I wanted to tell these people so bad that they can't expect a bull to work that has just come off test and is only 15 months old if you don't take care of him. You can't take a young bull, turn him out for 2 years, and never give him a break or something to eat. And if you try in the southeast, you should at least try to worm him and give him some mineral salt.
"You can't starve a living out of cattle"
 

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