If only we knew the targets

[DiamondSCattleCo]

BTW, for those who claim cattle need extra flesh in harsh environments, can you explain how some continental breeds survived in harsh winter environments without excessive amounts of back fat? Perhaps that's just an angus problem. Hmmmm???

Those of us who promote easy doing cattle in harsh environments I don't think have ever argued the ability of the continentals to "survive", but rather argued the profitability of said animal. Although I've seen some pencil gutted no-fat continentals (or for that matter, British) around that I would be concerned about. With feed getting more expensive all the time, those fleshy cattle _will_ eat much less than a thin animal, and as long as you don't end up taking too big a hit when it comes time to ship, you'll make more money with them.

Someone mentioned 50-75% British crossed to exotic earlier in the thread. This is a heckuva good way to ensure you get the best of both worlds. Those smaller, fleshy Brit cows will winter better and cheaper than any continental cow can (on an average, I know there are exceptions to the rule). Cross them to a continental, and keep the calves well bedded in the -40F stuff and you'll make money.

Rod

 

[Jason]

You guys keep forgetting fat at slaughter is a different fat than fat at maturity.

All animals when mature will lay down fat for environmental reasons.

Animals at slaughter will only have a portion of their mature fat layer if they are not the very early maturing types.

Angus breeders have not done a good job of selecting for marbling while reducing external fat AT SLAUGHTER.

False assumptions that a leaner AT SLAUGHTER animal will be leaner its whole life have been a serious downfall to the business.

Research has shown very few breeds can increase marbling without the external fat cover. Angus can.

I saw the kill data on steers sired by my bulls and I know it is very easy to hit 1400 pounds live at 11-14 months with 94% choice and 70% yg2 with no yg4. Those genetics did it year after year. My customer kept heifers and his herd was grazing for all but 5 weeks a year.

My cows are still grazing where there is anything to graze. I have 1 group of 90 cows that get a 1300 pound bale daily because the stubble is pretty bare. Those are mostly the crossbred cows that I bought this spring and they aren't in as good of flesh as my Angus cows that weigh 300 pounds more and are grazing stubble in another field and had no supplimentation even through the -40 windchills we had for most of November.

It can and is being done.

 

[Anonymous]

Jason: "Research has shown very few breeds can increase marbling without the external fat cover. Angus can."

Herein lies the problem Jason. With the advent of cryovac aging and better meat preperation methods, marbling is highly overrated but the Angus breed continues to support the notion that choice is always better while CHB beats CAB in a side by side test test at CSU.

"Oh what tangled webs we weave"


~SH~

 

[Econ101]

Jason: "Research has shown very few breeds can increase marbling without the external fat cover. Angus can."

Herein lies the problem Jason. With the advent of cryovac aging and better meat preperation methods, marbling is highly overrated but the Angus breed continues to support the notion that choice is always better while CHB beats CAB in a side by side test test at CSU.

"Oh what tangled webs we weave"


~SH~

I suppose you would make the argument that cutter is better because there is little difference between high cutter and low select (the old good).

 

[Jason]

Why breed for the bottom grades when you can breed for the higher grades and take them off feed sooner if the lower grade pays?

Angus also has a finer grain to the meat so it is a nicer product regardless of marbling.

The market is calling for more choice cattle, it is dealing with the fat for now, smart breeders will be producing cattle that will address both.

 

[Mike]

Angus also has a finer grain to the meat so it is a nicer product regardless of marbling.

All the research I have read gives the edge to the double muscled breeds (Belgians and Piedmontese) when it comes to tenderness and the finer grains in meat.

 

[PORKER]

Piedmontese and Angus says it all, right on.

 

[Work Hard and Study Hard]

Well for the last 40 years a 1200-1300 pound steer with some yield did you allright up in Canada-lately if there's some extra marbling even better. Maybe not the maximum price everytime but if that's what you raised consistantly you could keep going in the cattle business. 50-75 British breeding the rest some exotic to bump the yield. It's funny how our Dad's who didn't know much had that figured out years ago-now were just trying to reinvent the wheel.

Are you saying 50 to 75 percent British is the way to go or are you mocking it? Personally I see wide advantages of cross bred beef cattle, I could name them but i assume you already know them. Yet in my area high quality angus, red angus, and hereford cattle seem to bring the top dollar with the exception of straight herefords. Some breeders in the area sell bulls on 16" RE merrit. Personally I would rather have a 12" well marbled RE but there has to be a happy medium in there somewhere. Also how big a cow do you have to have to birth a calf that kills with a 16" RE? It's all economics and they change with each environment.