Coyotes are causing me some serious losses, over 50 calves lost last year. And this years starting to look like last year. I would apreciate any help or suggestions on what can be done to minimize these coyote losses. I'm also having problems with the mountain lions but believe the coyotes are the main problem. My ranch is located in very rough and mountainous county.
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Is anybody else having losses due to coyotes?
- Thread starter Ranchero
- Start date
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Anonymous
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Ranchero said:Coyotes are causing me some serious losses, over 50 calves lost last year. And this years starting to look like last year. I would apreciate any help or suggestions on what can be done to minimize these coyote losses. I'm also having problems with the mountain lions but believe the coyotes are the main problem. My ranch is located in very rough and mountainous county.
If its very rough and remote the best thing I can think of is the the old M/44 coyote getters- cyanide guns--If you can get them or use them in Mexico they do the job....
ropesanddogs
Well-known member
I agree,if its legal,1080 or sianide poisoning,absolutely the most lethal,the only problem is that they can kill other animals if they eat the tainted meat.
ropesanddogs
Well-known member
My dad said they used to get them from a state rep. along with a liscence,but this is in the US,and 20 plus years ago..
Ray
New member
How about a gallon of antifreeze and 5lbs, of hot dogs. Had one dog with a kidney transplant at UCLA Davis survive that.
How about guard animals such as dogs (Geart Pyrenese), donkeys or llamas. I've heard they work well in small pastures but don't know about large open range pastures. My pastures are very large, the cattle are spread out for miles.
I have heard of people injecting hen eggs with a strain of distemper. The coyotes eat the eggs and contract distemper and spread it to the rest of the coyotes. In other words, you cause a outbreak of distemper in coyotes. Now that I think of it was not distemper but Parvo. Now where you get some parvo germs I don't know but blood from a positive animal should do it. I bet some on here knows how to do it.
This is safer than poising as it only effects canines (I think) and only those not vaccinated. Just make sure any domestic dogs in the area are vaccinated.
Good luck and let us know what works.
This is safer than poising as it only effects canines (I think) and only those not vaccinated. Just make sure any domestic dogs in the area are vaccinated.
Good luck and let us know what works.
Mike
Well-known member
Alabama said:I have heard of people injecting hen eggs with a strain of distemper. The coyotes eat the eggs and contract distemper and spread it to the rest of the coyotes. In other words, you cause a outbreak of distemper in coyotes. Now that I think of it was not distemper but Parvo. Now where you get some parvo germs I don't know but blood from a positive animal should do it. I bet some on here knows how to do it.
This is safer than poising as it only effects canines (I think) and only those not vaccinated. Just make sure any domestic dogs in the area are vaccinated.
Good luck and let us know what works.
Good idea! Would that be called "biological warfare"?
ok,
here's another view. I preface this by saying I still would shoot the yotees, but nthought an article I came accross was interesting, not sure where it was.
A guy came to the realization that all his family had shot them for generations with no success. He was doing a private label beef program, and decided maybe a diffferent approach was in order. This guy was a 4th or 5th generation rancher, not some animal welfare or enviro nut. he dicided to try to get along witth them and incorporate it into his private label beef as predator freindly practice.
First of all, he will still shoot a problem predator. But as I recal, he tried some different practices. It involved where the cattle were in relation to the predators. The guyb started spending time with the cattle and watching them. They would kind of tell him by their nervousness where the predators were. He'd move them. He also did some things to keepmtehm better protected around calving.
Bottom line results were as follows-------
He really hasn't noticed it help his Private Label, Predator freindly didn't take off like the dolphin freindly did with Tuna.
His predator losses really dropped.
The big bonus was that in spending more time with cattle and moving them mre, his range utilization went up considerably. I want to say he is stocking 50% more cattle. I know it was significantly more,
Anyway, thought it was interesting,
pprm
here's another view. I preface this by saying I still would shoot the yotees, but nthought an article I came accross was interesting, not sure where it was.
A guy came to the realization that all his family had shot them for generations with no success. He was doing a private label beef program, and decided maybe a diffferent approach was in order. This guy was a 4th or 5th generation rancher, not some animal welfare or enviro nut. he dicided to try to get along witth them and incorporate it into his private label beef as predator freindly practice.
First of all, he will still shoot a problem predator. But as I recal, he tried some different practices. It involved where the cattle were in relation to the predators. The guyb started spending time with the cattle and watching them. They would kind of tell him by their nervousness where the predators were. He'd move them. He also did some things to keepmtehm better protected around calving.
Bottom line results were as follows-------
He really hasn't noticed it help his Private Label, Predator freindly didn't take off like the dolphin freindly did with Tuna.
His predator losses really dropped.
The big bonus was that in spending more time with cattle and moving them mre, his range utilization went up considerably. I want to say he is stocking 50% more cattle. I know it was significantly more,
Anyway, thought it was interesting,
pprm
Jinglebob
Well-known member
pprm
Good post. I don't believe we should fight mother nature either. Nomadic man (we of the horse and cow clan) have worked with nature for centuries and that is why we have lasted. We can build any structure to protect us, but in time, nature will wear it out. If we follow the seasons as the wildlife does, we will be better off. At times we will still be caught unaware, but we will prevail.
What would happen if Argentina grass fed beef came into the country and the consumer decided that they wanted grass fattened beef and would pay more for it? How many would switch to all forage diet for their livestock if they could be payed a premium?
As for the coyote problem, how many would use horned longhorn steers for protection of livestock if it were proven that they worked and how many would let horns grow on their cattle if they found that they could then be better able to protect themselves? Maybe we need to cull the ones who can't or won't protect themselves against predators?
Good post. I don't believe we should fight mother nature either. Nomadic man (we of the horse and cow clan) have worked with nature for centuries and that is why we have lasted. We can build any structure to protect us, but in time, nature will wear it out. If we follow the seasons as the wildlife does, we will be better off. At times we will still be caught unaware, but we will prevail.
What would happen if Argentina grass fed beef came into the country and the consumer decided that they wanted grass fattened beef and would pay more for it? How many would switch to all forage diet for their livestock if they could be payed a premium?
As for the coyote problem, how many would use horned longhorn steers for protection of livestock if it were proven that they worked and how many would let horns grow on their cattle if they found that they could then be better able to protect themselves? Maybe we need to cull the ones who can't or won't protect themselves against predators?
First, I would like to thank you all, for your input and suggestions. I agree that we ought nought to fight with mother nature. But, Mr. Coyote is taking a hell-of-a-bite out of my retirement plan.
I couldn't get much closer to my cattle than I already am. Myself and the hired cowboys spend 8-12 hours per day on horseback taking care of them now. I am doctoring 3 coyote bitten' calves in the corral today. We lost 8 more calves last week.
I have been studying many different methods of predator control. Right now I am seriously considering the use of Guard Dogs (Great Pyrenees) on the ranch. This method seems to be the least toxic and the most environmentally friendly. I know the sheep industry has been able to use these natural enemies to affectively reduce predator losses. But I have'nt found much info available regarding their use for cattle or open range conditions, such as mine. I think, I will have to stock my ranch with more Guard Dogs, because the pastures are so large.
Does anybody have some knowledge or recomendations reguarding this method of predator control?
I couldn't get much closer to my cattle than I already am. Myself and the hired cowboys spend 8-12 hours per day on horseback taking care of them now. I am doctoring 3 coyote bitten' calves in the corral today. We lost 8 more calves last week.
I have been studying many different methods of predator control. Right now I am seriously considering the use of Guard Dogs (Great Pyrenees) on the ranch. This method seems to be the least toxic and the most environmentally friendly. I know the sheep industry has been able to use these natural enemies to affectively reduce predator losses. But I have'nt found much info available regarding their use for cattle or open range conditions, such as mine. I think, I will have to stock my ranch with more Guard Dogs, because the pastures are so large.
Does anybody have some knowledge or recomendations reguarding this method of predator control?
BEN PASCOE
Member
THEIR ARE SEVERAL WAYS, THE DOGS YOU TALKED ABOUT WONT REALLY WORK THAT WELL BEING SHEEP TEND TO BUNCH UP MORE AND CATTLE SPREAD OUT MORE. POISIONING SEEMS YOUR BEST BET, USE STRYCNINE OR ANTIFREEZE, IF YOU USE STRYCNINE PUT THE PILLS IN SOME KIND OF GREASE OR LARD. THERE IS ANOTHER POISON YOU CANR USE BUT I CANNOT REMEBER THE NAME....I WILL CALL A FRIEND AND ASK HERE SHORTLY AND GET BACK WITH YOU AND GOOD LUCK. I HAVE HAD MY WIFE HORSE BACK WITH A SHOT GUN AND THE COYOTS WENT AFTER HER AND HER HORSE WITH HER SHOOTING.. THERE SEEMS TO BE A FEW OF THE PACK WORST THAN THE REST AND ONCE YOU GET RID OF THE TROUBLED ONES IT WILL SETTLE A LITTE BIT
BEN PASCOE
Member
THE DOGS WILL NOT WORK BECAUSE THE DOGS WILL NOT STAY WITH THE HEARD BECAUSE CATTLE DONT BUNCH LIKE SHEEP. THATS WHY THERE IS NO INFO ABOUT USING DOGS FOR CATTLE. IF YOU ARE GOING TO USE PIOSON DONT TRY THE DOGS TOO USE ONE OR THE OTHER BUT POISON IS THE ONLY WAY IT WILL WORK. ANOTHER NAME FOR THE POISON (AND I DONT KNOW HOW TO SPELL IT) IS SHYCNINE (BASICLLY THE SAME THING AS STRYCNINE BUT IT KILLS THE ONE INFECTED ANIMAL AND STYCNINE KEEPS KILLING.
Thanks Ben for your suggestions. I do have limited knowledge and access to the medicine you mentioned. But I don't know how to use anti-freeze. Would you please explain how. We have some cattle dogs that would need to be tied up and left at the house in order to use poisons. How can one use the above without kiilling the ranch dogs too?
BEN PASCOE
Member
ANITFREEZE PUT IN A CUP OR BOWL,BUT YOU HAVE TO KEEP TABS ON YOUR DOGS, IT WILL KILL THEM. KNOW WHERE YOU R POISON IS AND WHEN YOUR IN THE AREA DONT BRING YOUR DOGS OR KEEP THEM RIGHT NEXT TO YOU. dONT KNOW THE LAY OF YOUR LAND OR HOW MANY DOGS YOU HAVE BUT ITS KINDA HARD TO EXPLAINE ON HERE IT IS EASIER TO EXPLAIN TALKING TO YOU, I HAVE HAD EXPERIENCE WITH THIS ALL MY LIFE. FEEL FREE TO E-MAIL ME WITH YOUR PHONE NUMBER AND I WILL CALL YOU OR I WILL GIVE YOU MY NUMBER.
Kato
Well-known member
Antifreeze is a long slow painful death. It starts with kidney failure, and goes on from there slowly killing the animal. You sure don't want a dog getting at it. I've seen a dog die from antifreeze, and it ain't pretty.
Have you thought about putting a donkey or two with them? They are a lot cheaper to feed than a dog, and they really do work. We've had them for years, and coyote losses are non existent at our place. And it's not because we don't have coyotes either. There are at least three packs within a three mile radius, and you can hear them howling every single night without fail. The important thing is that they howl from outside the fence, not inside. They have learned their lessons well.
Shooting bad coyotes more often than not results in their places being taken by more bad coyotes. Better to get the local ones trained, and they may keep new ones from moving into the neighbourhood. :clap:
Have you thought about putting a donkey or two with them? They are a lot cheaper to feed than a dog, and they really do work. We've had them for years, and coyote losses are non existent at our place. And it's not because we don't have coyotes either. There are at least three packs within a three mile radius, and you can hear them howling every single night without fail. The important thing is that they howl from outside the fence, not inside. They have learned their lessons well.
Shooting bad coyotes more often than not results in their places being taken by more bad coyotes. Better to get the local ones trained, and they may keep new ones from moving into the neighbourhood. :clap:
I have given some thought to stocking my ranch with a bunch of donkey's to help chase off the coyotes. I am sure they would help, as I have seen them run off stray dogs, on a smaller farm I used to own years ago. Also, there is an ample supply of the long eared critters in my neck of the woods. Somebody else recommended against using donkey's, they said the donkey's wouldn't let the cattle into the salt and mineral feeders. It might have been an isolated incident.
Watching anything die a long slow death is a sad thing. There is nothing worse than watching a poor little coyote bitten calf, die slowly over the course of a couple two or three weeks of daily doctoring. Not to mention how ugly it is to watch your projected calf crop dwindle away.
Northern Rancher
Well-known member
The last thing we need is a bunch of 'ranchers' on here discussing illegal ways to poison wildlife-give your heads a skake for crying out loud-were calving right now in probably as predator laden country as anybody. We lose the odd calf for sure but between good momma cows and guard dogs we keep them down. The old adage is if your residant predators aren't too bad leave them be-you shoot them and 10 relkatives come to the funeral and some of them might be stock killers. The only biological warfare we practice is not killing mangy 'yotes we let them spread their gift around. Donkeys and some rangy longhorn steers would probably help you out for sure.
