Sandhusker
Well-known member
Big Muddy rancher said:Does Japan remove SRM's?
Yes, they do.
Do they remove all nerve tissue?
Big Muddy rancher said:Does Japan remove SRM's?
Sandhusker said:Big Muddy rancher said:Does Japan remove SRM's?
Yes, they do.
Do they remove all nerve tissue?
Big Muddy rancher said:Sandhusker said:Big Muddy rancher said:Does Japan remove SRM's?
Yes, they do.
Do they remove all nerve tissue?
Strange they remove SRM's
They test all cattle.
Which one are they stepping away from doing?
bse-tester said:S.S.A.P. wrote:
A question for bse-tester
Does your live (urine) test require that each and every animal have the brain stem test as a followup?
Once it is validated and accepted then the only test required as a confirmatory test will be that which the government mandates. We will of course, strongly suggest that upon our test being validated and accepted by the OIC and subsequently by the USDA and the CFIA, that the only confirmatory testing needing be done in the event of a positive sample being found will be to confirm that animal only and any blood-line or herd-members associated with it.
Having said that, we will be conducting, as part of the total testing procedure, a second test for all animals as it is common practice that all tests come in two parts - preliminary and secondary/confirmatory.
The sample taken for the second test, unlike the first test which is done using only urine, will include urine, liver and brain tissue in an homogenate and a portion of that second sample mixture will be tested and the remainder will be kept in a minus 80 C freezer for a period that is equal to the average time it takes for the beef product to go from producer to slaughter to kitchen and consumption. Of course, we do factor in the average time a steak might sit in a domestic freezer also. Our IT guys have told us that we can easily keep any number of traceable records indefinitely and that we can keep stored tissue samples for as long as necessary and as many as necessary.
bse-tester said:RobertMac wrote:
Whether or not SRM removal is discontinued if testing is implemented is "irrelevant"???
TimH wrote:
Are you friggin' serious???
The fact is, it is the government(s) that make that decision and simply because a test is available to ensure that the product is safe and free of BSE would negate the need to remove SRM's is not the point. The point is whether or not the government of the day would discontinue what would then become a useless practice.
If the test has been accepted by the authorities and mandated throughout the world as the test for BSE, then once an animal has passed through the testing protocol and proven to be BSE free then it can be declared to have been tested for BSE and catagorically declared to have no sign of the disease in the carass whatsoever. It then follows that the removal of SRM's will be considered a mute point and would likely also be declared an unnecessary expense of time and money on the line.
As for the other point regarding the use of muscle tissue and/or brain tissue in homogenate for prion testing:
The point that prions are not found in muscle tissue is perhaps one of the more moronic statements that TImH has repeatedly made as part of his misguided attacks on prion research. - hence his use of the term "Sirloin Steak" and he has convinced himself that the only means of removing ALL PrPsc from the carcass is to remove all SRM's and that by doing so will render the carcass free of PrPsc.
SRM removal will take out those areas of the carcass that are known to hold concentrations of PRPsc but will not eradicate PrPsc from the carcass completely. Once PrPsc has replicated enough to manifest itself in sufficient numbers within the SRM's, it is absolutely going to be found in all other tissues throughout the body. Perhaps it will not be found in such numbers as is found in SRM's but it will be found nonetheless. To count on only SRM removal is courting tragedy on a huge scale and to put it mildly, utterly stupid.
Perhaps TimH can answer these questions:
How does the PrPsc manage to concentrate itself in SRM's and not in muscle tissue as he is so convinced??
Why is PrPsc, according to TimH, not found in muscle tissue?
Is PrPsc evident in the blood in an infected animal?
How does PrPsc travel within the host animal?
How many PrPsc does it take to declare an animal infected?
Can PrPsc be found in the vascular and lymphatic system of the animal?
What is the typical incubation period in cattle Vs. Human hosts?
Would Timh eat "Sirloin Steak" from a "PrPsc Positive" carcass after all of the SRM's have been removed?
How does the PrPsc manage to concentrate itself in SRM's and not in muscle tissue as he is so convinced??
Why is PrPsc, according to TimH, not found in muscle tissue?
Is PrPsc evident in the blood in an infected animal?
How does PrPsc travel within the host animal?
How many PrPsc does it take to declare an animal infected?
Can PrPsc be found in the vascular and lymphatic system of the animal?
What is the typical incubation period in cattle Vs. Human hosts?
Would Timh eat "Sirloin Steak" from a "PrPsc Positive" carcass after all of the SRM's have been removed?
bse-tester said:I know personally know three prion researchers who routinely use muscle tissue to detect the presence of PrPsc in an homogenate of muscle tissue and sterile phosphate-buffered saline (ph7) - of course, there are nerve fibrils embedded in the muscle, but then, how does one take them out Timmy??
As for the cases of vCJD Tim, if you had any idea of how prion diseases affect humans, then you would not ask that question due to your incredible knowledge of how long the incubation period we humans have when infected with PrPsc. It could well be decades before we see any clinical signs of dramatic increases in vCJD - something that the UK Government stated clearly in their own admissions when questioned about the long term effects of human exposure prior to and during the early stages of the UK BSE outbreak. The published an alert which stated that they expect to see approximately 4300 cases of vCJD within the UK alone in the next two to three decades from exposure prior to the UK outbreak in which 185,000 sanimals were found to be BSE positive.
But nooooooooo, Timmyboy knows all about prion disease and how it affects us humans and further more, he is the self-appointed expert when it comes to which parts of the animal will have PrPsc in it and which parts will not.
Folks, we are in the presence of true magnificence with our Timmyboy and wow, if we had only known that back in the early outbreak days in the UK!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol:
I also know that you failed to answer the questions I posed to you Timmy - why is that? Well Tim, are you smarter than a first grader?? Here is another chance for you to show us all just how smart you really are Tim. Go for it.
Time for you to give us some answers Tim. Try it, afterall, this should be easy for someone with your level of indepth prion experience. :roll: :roll:
How does the PrPsc manage to concentrate itself in SRM's and not in muscle tissue as he is so convinced??
Why is PrPsc, according to TimH, not found in muscle tissue?
Is PrPsc evident in the blood in an infected animal?
How does PrPsc travel within the host animal?
How many PrPsc does it take to declare an animal infected?
Can PrPsc be found in the vascular and lymphatic system of the animal?
What is the typical incubation period in cattle Vs. Human hosts?
Would Timh eat "Sirloin Steak" from a "PrPsc Positive" carcass after all of the SRM's have been removed?
Sandhusker said:Big Muddy rancher said:Does Japan remove SRM's?
Yes, they do.
Do they remove all nerve tissue?
Big Muddy rancher said:Thanks Terry.
Off the top of my thoughts;
How long is this test "good for"? As in how often is the live test needed to be done to classify as a "BSE free herd"? Breeding stock (heading to slaughter) will be retested when losing a calf or ripping a sheath in a year or two? Or will all this be mandatory for the seller's of fat/slaughter cattle only?
As I see it, there is no way the world is going to stop SRM removal even if the urine test is validated. (is the packer going to 'hold' the carcass with SRM intact until secondary/confirmatory test has been completed). I believe in progressive marketing techniques but enough already!!
mrj said:Sandhusker: "So, are you going to tell us SRM removal assures beef safety?"
Oh no! Sandhusker is busted after all these years of you telling the world SRM removal ISN'T protection against BSE????
mrj
"The sample taken for the second test, unlike the first test which is done using only urine, will include urine, liver and brain homogenate in an homogenate and a portion of that second sample mixture will be tested and the remainder will be kept in a minus 80 C freezer for a period that is equal to the average time it takes for the beef product to go from the producer to slaughter to kitchen and consumption."
bse tester please confirm, thank you:
are these your words Ron? Is this from your testing protocol?
Quote:
"The sample taken for the second test, unlike the first test which is done using only urine, will include urine, liver and brain homogenate in an homogenate and a portion of that second sample mixture will be tested and the remainder will be kept in a minus 80 C freezer for a period that is equal to the average time it takes for the beef product to go from the producer to slaughter to kitchen and consumption."