It's payback time for Canada for March 7 border opening

[rancher]

I am not getting kinky, I knew he was male. But if he would post his picture then my wife would appreciate what she has at home. :nod: :lol:

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

If you say so! :wink: :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

:roll: Amazing Oltimer how you think that Canadian cattle producers have such an unfair advantage over their US counterparts. What a vendictive and and strange mind you have my friend. Why the fear? What is it that makes you strike out against change and or anything other than a warm fire and a bottle of whiskey? You and your Rcalf buddies can dream up all the unfair advantages that you want, and then go spend your money on lawyers to prove your point. Trade will go on, even after you and I are both gone. Decisions will be made by minds not so entrenched in righteousnous like yours. Say you fight your battle for justice, but we all know it is because you like things the way they are, and do not want to be forced, coerced, or even have your hand held through change that could even be good for you.

Kaiser- Big Muddy--I thought I was the one that wanted change- I know you can't even out the playing fields on both sides of the border- too much social, economical, political, even ideological differences--but I think it only fair and right that we country of origin label all beef from any nation we import from and let the consumer sort it out....and the last that I knew Canada still was an independent nation (I don't buy this United States of North America bull)--but to me it seems the Canadians are the ones that want to go back in time to pre 2003 and maintain the status quo....I'm not sure if that will be possible for some time to come- the two years the border has been closed has awakened many to the impact the Canadian trade has on our market....

Like I've said before- If we had mandatory country of origin labeling, I think the border would have been open months ago.......

 

[baling wire]

My 30% must have got lost in the mail!

 

[Tam]

Like I've said before- If we had mandatory country of origin labeling, I think the border would have been open months ago.......

How in the H E double tooth picks could you have guaranteed the origin of US cattle you have no way of tracing the animal to where it was born, or raised. Were you just going to take the word of the seller. What about the vets and Livestock auction owners that cut the CCIA tags out of the Canadian cattle were you going to take their word too. Or you going to take the word of the guy that can buy cheaper cattle in Canada because of the dollar difference and sell them as US beef because of the better price. Manditory COOL will not work unless you can prove the origin and it only covered the meat that was bought in a grocery store not the food ate in restraunts If you want the consumer to know something why don't you let them know that you have no way of guaranteeing that label. :x

 

[Anonymous]

Like I've said before- If we had mandatory country of origin labeling, I think the border would have been open months ago.......

How in the H E double tooth picks could you have guaranteed the origin of US cattle you have no way of tracing the animal to where it was born, or raised. Were you just going to take the word of the seller. What about the vets and Livestock auction owners that cut the CCIA tags out of the Canadian cattle were you going to take their word too. Or you going to take the word of the guy that can buy cheaper cattle in Canada because of the dollar difference and sell them as US beef because of the better price. Manditory COOL will not work unless you can prove the origin and it only covered the meat that was bought in a grocery store not the food ate in restraunts If you want the consumer to know something why don't you let them know that you have no way of guaranteeing that label. :x

Miss Tam - how the H E double toothpicks do we guarantee that the information data that you submit for the tags with your cattle is correct? Do we just take your word? Until you invent the bull that blows an RFID chip at time of conception, you will have to take some type of affiant statement to back that info- your perfect world doesn't exist yet- Thank God.......

With the new proposed border rules they can jerk out all the eartags they want-- that CAN brand will still be there..........

 

[Tam]

Like I've said before- If we had mandatory country of origin labeling, I think the border would have been open months ago.......


With the new proposed border rules they can jerk out all the eartags they want-- that CAN brand will still be there..........

First of all you said that with MCOOL the border would have been open When I ask how can you prove the origin of US cattle you point at our system . How is our system taking anyones word? The tag is registered when you buy the tag and it is put in the ear of the animal before it leaves the birth place. When that animal hits the slaughter house rail that bar code is programed into the hook that that animal is hanging on in the plant. If anything is wrong with the animal at inspection the bar code is read to see where the animal was born.

Then you say with the new rule they can jerk the tags but the brand will still prove it.

Now if the US wants us to brand these animals then fine but that isn't a part of the flawed MCOOL bill that you keep wanting passed and said would have open the border. The MCOOL bill did not stop the US guys from cutting out the CCIA tags and it will not stop the packer from claiming the beef, that does not have a hide on it once it passes the hide chute, as US origin if it is more profitable.

The US has a creditbility problem,
We all have heard the FDA say that the US is 99% compliant of the 1997 feed bans but the investigation by the US Government clearly shows that was only just recently achieved and according to the report it can't be proven because the FDA doesn't re-inspect non-complying feed mills to see that they are complying. And the FDA reason is because they don't have enough funding to do the job right.
We have read where the USDA is testing all downers in the survelliance program, only later to find out they test a very small percentage and the ones they do test come from slaughter houses which by the USDA's own rules are not suppose to accept downers. And because of Budget cuts they will not even come close to testing the number they need to, to see the true prevalence of BSE.
Then there is the rule to remove the SRM's from OTM animals and we hear that plant inspectors have reported the OTM beef is going though the plants with the SRM not removed and being exported as UTM beef. Why because the removal takes time and MONEY which the plants aren't willing to spare. But what does the USDA do, they go after the inspectors that reported the violations instead of the plants that were doing the violating and why because it was more cost efficient to stop the squealing than the violating. Just like the violations to the testing. Good thing there are still some US citizens that have some intigruity.
Then there is the US Beef organizations that are claiming The US is BSE free and all Canadian beef is tainted while they refuse to turn over their dead and dieing animals off farm for testing. Why because they are scared Sh**less that they will find BSE and will have to justify all the stupid comments they made about Canadian beef and Because no amount of fund raising or court actions that will get back Consumer confidence after months of lies.
If MCOOL is enacted,I see it as just another nail in the US beef industry creditibility coffin. As sooner or later the media will come out with a story about how a plant was slipping cheaper priced Canadian beef through the system as higher priced US beef because the system to verify where US beef originates wasn't in place as it was to costly and burdensome for US ranchers or the government wasn't able to inspect the labeling process because of budget cut backs.

Oldtimer why don't you get the programs and rules, that are already suppose to be in place to protect all the US consumer domestic or otherwise, implimented and funded properly. Before you put any more flawed programs in place that will also be underfunded and impossible to impliment with any kind of guarantee. Which would be a big waste of time and money if consumers knew all beef is safe as long as the the rules that put in place to protect them were being followed, no matter where the beef is born, raised or slaughtered.

 

[Anonymous]

Like I've said before- If we had mandatory country of origin labeling, I think the border would have been open months ago.......


With the new proposed border rules they can jerk out all the eartags they want-- that CAN brand will still be there..........

First of all you said that with MCOOL the border would have been open When I ask how can you prove the origin of US cattle you point at our system . How is our system taking anyones word? The tag is registered when you buy the tag and it is put in the ear of the animal before it leaves the birth place. When that animal hits the slaughter house rail that bar code is programed into the hook that that animal is hanging on in the plant. If anything is wrong with the animal at inspection the bar code is read to see where the animal was born.

Then you say with the new rule they can jerk the tags but the brand will still prove it.

Now if the US wants us to brand these animals then fine but that isn't a part of the flawed MCOOL bill that you keep wanting passed and said would have open the border. The MCOOL bill did not stop the US guys from cutting out the CCIA tags and it will not stop the packer from claiming the beef, that does not have a hide on it once it passes the hide chute, as US origin if it is more profitable.

The US has a creditbility problem,
We all have heard the FDA say that the US is 99% compliant of the 1997 feed bans but the investigation by the US Government clearly shows that was only just recently achieved and according to the report it can't be proven because the FDA doesn't re-inspect non-complying feed mills to see that they are complying. And the FDA reason is because they don't have enough funding to do the job right.
We have read where the USDA is testing all downers in the survelliance program, only later to find out they test a very small percentage and the ones they do test come from slaughter houses which by the USDA's own rules are not suppose to accept downers. And because of Budget cuts they will not even come close to testing the number they need to, to see the true prevalence of BSE.
Then there is the rule to remove the SRM's from OTM animals and we hear that plant inspectors have reported the OTM beef is going though the plants with the SRM not removed and being exported as UTM beef. Why because the removal takes time and MONEY which the plants aren't willing to spare. But what does the USDA do, they go after the inspectors that reported the violations instead of the plants that were doing the violating and why because it was more cost efficient to stop the squealing than the violating. Just like the violations to the testing. Good thing there are still some US citizens that have some intigruity.
Then there is the US Beef organizations that are claiming The US is BSE free and all Canadian beef is tainted while they refuse to turn over their dead and dieing animals off farm for testing. Why because they are scared Sh**less that they will find BSE and will have to justify all the stupid comments they made about Canadian beef and Because no amount of fund raising or court actions that will get back Consumer confidence after months of lies.
If MCOOL is enacted,I see it as just another nail in the US beef industry creditibility coffin. As sooner or later the media will come out with a story about how a plant was slipping cheaper priced Canadian beef through the system as higher priced US beef because the system to verify where US beef originates wasn't in place as it was to costly and burdensome for US ranchers or the government wasn't able to inspect the labeling process because of budget cut backs.

Oldtimer why don't you get the programs and rules, that are already suppose to be in place to protect all the US consumer domestic or otherwise, implimented and funded properly. Before you put any more flawed programs in place that will also be underfunded and impossible to impliment with any kind of guarantee. Which would be a big waste of time and money if consumers knew all beef is safe as long as the the rules that put in place to protect them were being followed, no matter where the beef is born, raised or slaughtered.

Tam- How do I know thats your cow you are putting the tag in? Are you sure it isn't your neighbors? Because you say so and sign an affirmation when you sell it that it is yours--Or doesn't Canada use bill of sales?... How do I know that cow is what age? Because you input that data to go along with the tag-- Or isn't your system that far along yet? My point is that somewhere you have to tag the animal and input the data to go with that tag, and you have to affirm that that info is correct- the tag doesn't magically know it all- you still have to trust someone somewhere...

As far as the branding along with COOL- that was part of the initial proposal-- got all muddied in the waters of politics and packer lobbying... You call it a flawed law- but I've seen few that started out perfect-and no law is written in stone- they can be modified, amended and changed- most are over the years beore they get the loopholes and bugs out of them... Its just like the COOL opponents a few months ago that falsely argued that you couldn't brand Canadian cattle without violating the law- they were wrong- all it took was a USDA rule change--- Either that or is the whole March 7 border proposal illegal because of that?.....

As far as jerking off tags, hides, falsifying info- There is nothing foolproof.... How do you know when you buy a hamburger that it isn't horse meat? If the packers can make this much committing fraud then whats keeping them from buying cheap horse meat and mixing in? Thats the reason we have rules, regulations and laws and official oversight- but they can all be gotten around at one time or another......

Why you and some of the other Canadians want the US to find BSE is a wonder to me-- maybe subconciously you are looking for a career change.....Us finding BSE will not help the Canadian cattlemans situation in the least bit...Right now Canadians better hope the US consumer doesn't lose confidence or you will have nowhere to go with that beef.....I think we will lose enough anyway with the border opening and the inability to choose between Canadian or US.......

I truly believe in a few years, with all the free trade agreements being signed- which will allow generic beef from around the world to be shipped very cheaply into the US and then funneled north into Canada, that Canadian cattlemen will be screaming for COOL too..... Might be too late then...

I can't for the world see why Canadians wouldn't want anyone to know that Canada produces good beef.......As it is now most US consumers and foreign markets don't think they have ever eaten Canadian beef-- Had to be US beef- it had a USDA stamp on it.....

I guess I have a hard time understanding how anyone can oppose a law that gives consumers more info than they now have available, cancels out a fraudulent and deceptive practice which USDA is allowing, and leaves the ultimate and final choice to the individual....

 

[frenchie]

The reason they are cheap, is because our government subsidizes them.

Just another one of those socialized Canadian subsidies we have to compete against!!! Like the Canadian Wheat Board- Prairie Provinces grazing and hayland payments, trucking subsidies, heifer retainment program (CAIS), etc. etc................

Wish the US government would give us $200 to winter our replacement heifers.........

FAIR trade :???:

Oh you poor little cry baby.... you have had subsidies out your a$$. Some to even buy that Canada hay to feed your herds..poor baby can,t compete because of lack of management skills.

 

[Anonymous]

The reason they are cheap, is because our government subsidizes them.

Just another one of those socialized Canadian subsidies we have to compete against!!! Like the Canadian Wheat Board- Prairie Provinces grazing and hayland payments, trucking subsidies, heifer retainment program (CAIS), etc. etc................

Wish the US government would give us $200 to winter our replacement heifers.........

FAIR trade :???:

Oh you poor little cry baby.... you have had subsidies out your a$$. Some to even buy that Canada hay to feed your herds..poor baby can,t compete because of lack of management skills.

frenchie- we at least still have our pride-haven't surrendered to every country that said boo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[frenchie]

Just another one of those socialized Canadian subsidies we have to compete against!!! Like the Canadian Wheat Board- Prairie Provinces grazing and hayland payments, trucking subsidies, heifer retainment program (CAIS), etc. etc................

Wish the US government would give us $200 to winter our replacement heifers.........

FAIR trade :???:

Oh you poor little cry baby.... you have had subsidies out your a$$. Some to even buy that Canada hay to feed your herds..poor baby can,t compete because of lack of management skills.

frenchie- we at least still have our pride-haven't surrendered to every country that said boo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DEFINITION OF PRIDE Webster Dictionary=Self respect Really but you joined forces with Animal Right people....so who surrended to who there....or did r- calf propose 1st.. and as you said to me prior...about the problems that Canadian Ranchers were having...Its all management Good luck OT

 

[Manitoba_Rancher]

Frenchie:

Oldtimer is always bragging about his cows out grazing in the winter and he whines when he has to feed them some hay. Last time I checked I feed my cows hay and grain twice a day for around 210 days. I think the US producers have a leg up on us since there cost of production is way less! What about you Frenchie, are your cows out grazing grass yet? ... lol.. OT should live in Manitoba he'd know what it costs to produce a calf then. IF he was out feeding cows he would n t have time to come on her and run us Canadian producers down! Maybe he should stick to raisin horses since hes so damn good at that. :wink:

 

[Kato]

I think you misunderstand us OT. I for one do not WANT the U.S. to find BSE. That does not mean it won't happen. If your surveillance efforts really are genuine, it's very possible that one will show up.

What upsets me is the spouting off by your so called 'representing grassroots cattlemen' organizations that is going to make sure everyone gets a big fat kick in the head if/when one shows up.

You haven't found it yet. That doesn't mean you won't. Wanting it or not will not make a lick of difference.

Learn from our experience. We've taken the worst damage that the initial impact inflicted. By living throught the first shock, the fallout in international markets, and the financial suffering that followed, we've softened the blow for you guys. You don't have to believe that, but it's true.

North American consumers have gotten past that first 'knee jerk' reaction that happens whenever a new 'food safety crisis' strikes. They have gotten to the point now where they can look at this whole issue with a rational view, rather than the media hyped panic that happens initially in this sort of situation.

Look north and you will see how a crisis like this should be handled in a manner that will ensure your consumers will keep their faith in the safety of their beef. No one does anything perfectly, but we did stand up and face our problem, and went to extrardinary lengths to retain our credibility with consumers. They are not stupid. They saw that we were still coming out and looking for and finding positives even after the horrific results of finding the first one. They saw that we were still honest about BSE, even though many of us were in very real danger of losing all we had worked for all our lives.

Credibility! DON'T LOSE IT! It's all that stands between a healthy prosperous beef industry and financial ruin. If you do the groundwork now, there won't be a big backlash if one shows up. I believe there are people in your country who know that, and are working hard to do that work.

This is why the likes of R-Calf and their cohorts is so aggravating. If they have their way, they could just be the key to the ruin of exactly the people they claim to be representing. :!:

 

[frenchie]

Frenchie:

Oldtimer is always bragging about his cows out grazing in the winter and he whines when he has to feed them some hay. Last time I checked I feed my cows hay and grain twice a day for around 210 days. I think the US producers have a leg up on us since there cost of production is way less! What about you Frenchie, are your cows out grazing grass yet? ... lol.. OT should live in Manitoba he'd know what it costs to produce a calf then. IF he was out feeding cows he would n t have time to come on her and run us Canadian producers down! Maybe he should stick to raisin horses since hes so damn good at that. :wink:

Why no MB rancher my cows are not out grazing yet. :lol: I wish oldtimer did live in Manitoba..Then he could really see how cushy things are here notThe way he talks, you,d think we ranch in Disneyland.
I wonder if Oldtimer ever had to feed any of that dreaded Canadian hay, they were subsided to buy. :wink:

 

[S.S.A.P.]

Oldtimer posted: Miss Tam - how the H E double toothpicks do we guarantee that the information data that you submit for the tags with your cattle is correct? Do we just take your word?

Yes Oldtimer you will have to accept our word, JUST as we as a country are expected to accept that the regulations, rules and laws are being followed for the Billions of dollars worth of products that Canada imports from the U.S. And in the same breath you criticise the buyer's of YOUR calves with " they can jerk out all the eartags they want-- that CAN brand will still be there.........." You criticise USDA (quote:" fraudulent and deceptive practice which USDA is allowing), NCBA, APHIS etc for not following the rules or breaking the law. You have stated the "inadequacy" of every level within the US cattle and beef industry, between your own theories and those of R-Calf and it's affiliates you have lessened the credibility of your beef and Canada's. No wonder Asian markets are dragging their feet on resuming trade .....

Oldtimer posted " I can't for the world see why Canadians wouldn't want anyone to know that Canada produces good beef......."

Everyone does know that Canada produces good beef. Those that view it differently now, have let themselves believe in one version - That is R-Calf and affiliates, repeatingly sending out lies and misconceptions (tainted, ridden with BSE, BSE epedemic, ...etc. etc. etc.) which inturn are repeated by folks such as yourself at the local water hole, auction barn, coffee spot .... and to everyone you meet and so on and so on.

Wonder what kind of branded beef program could have been developed with all that money R-calf has collected and spent? Value added program from hoof to plate in the Dakotas, Montana and bordering states. A program which could have offered premiums to your prices and helped alot of R-Calf member producers. A marketing program that could compete with Canadian beef and darn it .... you could have labelled it
R-Timer's Obsession - "COOL Beef that BordersThe Best"

 

[Anonymous]

I wonder if Oldtimer ever had to feed any of that dreaded Canadian hay, they were subsided to buy. :wink:

frenchie- I haven't had to feed any of your hay and have never raised or bought subsidized hay.............

frenchie, MR, Kato, Tam-- You can slam me all you want- you can slam R-CALF all you want-- But none of you have answered my one question yet... Why are Canadians afraid to compete in the open? Why are they afraid to have their beef labeled and laid out beside US beef? Is there a fear that it is an inferior product that can't compete in the open without the retail charade of putting the USDA stamp on it and passing it off as a US product? I know that is not true- you raise a good product- but your continued peeking around the USDA's skirts doesn't make it look that way......

You spend all your energies blaming your entire situation on R-CALF- I guess that comes from the frustration of not being able to do anything- we did that down here for years too- just took what was offered to us...

You have put Bill Bullard on a pedestal of power somewhere comparable to Joseph Stalin or the Pope....Canadians must think he can walk on water as in awe of him as they are.....I've just been waiting for one of you to blame the bad weather on him too--Imagine- one little group made up of producers who are fighting to get the best prices and marketing opportunities for its members can put a whole nations industry into trembling by just mentioning their name.....My God what a great country we live in- there is still hope for the average guy.......

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Why you and some of the other Canadians want the US to find BSE is a wonder to me-- maybe subconciously you are looking for a career change.....Us finding BSE will not help the Canadian cattlemans situation in the least bit...Right now Canadians better hope the US consumer doesn't lose confidence or you will have nowhere to go with that beef.....I think we will lose enough anyway with the border opening and the inability to choose between Canadian or US.......

What I and most Canadians would like to know is the true picture of BSE not the picture the USDA and the US ranchers like you want us to see. It is easy to blame Canadian when you hide behind lies. Maybe if you and R-CALF weren't trying to destroy us with your lies none of us would have to worry about consumer confidence. You sit for months telling your consumers that our beef is tainted but What are you going to do if we are right and another fluke positive cow of US origin slips though. How will you and R-CALF explain to the US consumer that your beef is save. The Records show that the three known cases in Canada never made it to the food chain unlike the one case in the US. Who's beef is safer with that knowledge. Oldtimer. I will say it again if you and R-CALF weren't trying to destroy us with your food safety lies, the consumers wouldn't have any reason to loss confidence in ours or your beef if you do find a case. There would be no need for the MCOOL label as all beef would be save in the eyes of the consumers if you weren't spreading your fear-mongering propoganda.

 

[Anonymous]

There would be no need for the MCOOL label as all beef would be save in the eyes of the consumers

You forgot to add-- and Canadian beef could continue to ride on the shirtails of the US producer................

If your going to be open and honest you have to have the rest of the story.......

 

[Anonymous]

Everyone does know that Canada produces good beef.


SSAP-- How would anyone know that? I'll bet you could ask 90% of the US consumers and they would tell you they have never ate Canadian beef- it has all came into the US, had the Canadian markings removed, had a USDA inspected stamp slapped on it and passed off as a US product.....

The only thing consumers know about Canadian beef is that the Canadian cows have mad cow- and they got that from the media coverage.....

 

[Anonymous]

Oldtimer"frenchie, MR, Kato, Tam-- You can slam me all you want- you can slam R-CALF all you want-- But none of you have answered my one question yet... Why are Canadians afraid to compete in the open? Why are they afraid to have their beef labeled and laid out beside US beef? Is there a fear that it is an inferior product that can't compete in the open without the retail charade of putting the USDA stamp on it and passing it off as a US product? I know that is not true- you raise a good product- but your continued peeking around the USDA's skirts doesn't make it look that way......"

There is one BIG reason some Canadians are unsure of your version of COOL. Canadian beef would then be an easy target for underhanded tactics from R-Calf. We saw it happen at one particular border crossing with bogus claims of fecal material and the same would happpen with claims of "tainted" beef from the meat case.

Something wrong with let's call it Canadian and our problem is over. Dounds exactly like this whole BSE fiasco doesn't it?