It's payback time for Canada for March 7 border opening

[Tam]

Truth be known not alot of our beef would be labeled as most imported beef is eaten in the restraunts or processed and as we all know that beef doesn't have to be labeled. But if we did and R-CALF keeps up the lies about our beef what fair chance does our beef have?
Oldtimer if I were a US consumer and I had to pick between the US handleing of BSE ie. the one BSE positive cow, the BSE Testing, the SRM removal and feed ban compliance and the Canadian handling of BSE I would have to take Canada hands down. At least Canada is facing their problem and cleaning it up not trying to blame another country. I would really watch what I ask for if I were you because like I said before MCOOL could save you but if the US consumers are thinking like I am it could also destroy you!!!!

OLDTIMER WROTE "I know that is not true- you raise a good product"

by saying this are you saying the R-CALF is lieing every time they say our beef is unsafe, tainted, an added risk to the US herd and consumer health. Oldtimer I thought you believed every word Bill Bullard spoke and now you tell us the you think we have a "good product"

Oldtimer wrote "I guess that comes from the frustration of not being able to do anything-"
Who says we are doing nothing, we have increased slaughter capacity by 22% and Canada has set a record for re-openning export markets in the wake of BSE and we retained and built on consumer confidence because of the systems we have in place to protect our consumers. I wouldn't say that is nothing.
The frustration is coming from hearing a beef organization trying to destroy us with LIES. You come to expect it from anti beef groups but not cattlemen that will also pay if consumer confidence is hurt. Every time R-CALF tells a lie about our beef and then says if we had MCOOL the consumer would know if the got tainted Canadian beef or Safe US beef. Do you think they are going to take a chance and get the wrong package of beef. No they are going to just pick pork or chicken, resulting in a decrease in demand of all beef even the unmarked US beef.

And no Oldtimer we don't blame the US or Bill Bullard for bad weather you blame us remember just like you blame us for your lost exports.

The truth is that R-CALF is a thorn in our side and when you live with even a small thorn long enough you get sick and tired of it when it keeps poking at you.

 

[S.S.A.P.]

I can't for the world see why Canadians wouldn't want anyone to know that Canada produces good beef.......
....."I know that is not true- you raise a good product- "


YOUR words Oldtimer ... I just reposted to enforce the message.

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Oldtimer: "Why are Canadians afraid to compete in the open? Why are they afraid to have their beef labeled and laid out beside US beef? "

And how is Canada stopping the U.S. from labelling?????

Afraid to compete in the open??

We have delegates in many countries negotiating for Beef sales ...Canadian beef. Canadian beef is good, perhaps that's why it shares retail cooler space and is used in the food service sector in your country. But as you have stated, yourself, the inadequacies of your industry can not 100% differentiate Canadian from American at this time
You can't blame that on Canada ... it leaves here labelled.

Branded beef programs are also labelled on both sides of the border. Imported American commodity beef is retailed in Canada. Why are Americans afraid to compete in the open? Why are they afraid to have their beef labeled and laid out beside Canadian beef?



Oldtimer: The only thing consumers know about Canadian beef is that the Canadian cows have mad cow- and they got that from the media coverage....."

I think we covered the media reports ... if they are not from R-Calf themselves, most sound very familiar with R-Calf releases - you know the ones containing the lies and misconceptions ... the ones that were factually corrected by a special government release but completely ignored by R-Calf and affiliates.

 

[Anonymous]

What I and most Canadians would like to know is the true picture of BSE not the picture the USDA and the US ranchers like you want us to see. It is easy to blame Canadian when you hide behind lies. Maybe if you and R-CALF weren't trying to destroy us with your lies none of us would have to worry about consumer confidence. You sit for months telling your consumers that our beef is tainted but What are you going to do if we are right and another fluke positive cow of US origin slips though. How will you and R-CALF explain to the US consumer that your beef is save. The Records show that the three known cases in Canada never made it to the food chain unlike the one case in the US. Who's beef is safer with that knowledge. Oldtimer. I will say it again if you and R-CALF weren't trying to destroy us with your food safety lies, the consumers wouldn't have any reason to loss confidence in ours or your beef if you do find a case. There would be no need for the MCOOL label as all beef would be save in the eyes of the consumers if you weren't spreading your fear-mongering propoganda.

Big Muddy- It was too late last night to really answer you- past my bedtime...

You talk of consumer safety, consumer confidence and safe beef and what would happen if a native case is found in the US...

If I remember right R-CALF pretty well covered that in their testimony to Congress --they recommended that the Canadians test everything until they find the extent of the problem or could show it was eliminated-they recommended that the US track down every Canadian cow they could in the US and test them and then if a domestic origin case is found that we should test everything too--Maintain consumer confidence at all cost.... I agree with you and R-CALF that we should not be playing under the covers and behind the scenes with this situation...We should be open with the consumers and if necessary take a 5-10 year added expense on the industry to prove that our product is safe...

I believe that is one of the things that has upset many Agriculture and consumer groups- and made them question the actions of animal and health safety depts of both countries- Any other country in the world that found as many BSE cattle as Canada has went to testing everything until they found the full extent of the problem and shown they had it eliminated--all the rules and past practices were bent and broke for Canada...

I still can't see why didn't the Canadian government mandate 100% testing? With all the questions still out there and the uncertainty it would seem the thing to do-- it couldn't have been the cost as they have blew more money into the BSE payments then the testing would have cost-- and you still have no major exports and are setting on a glut of cattle.......

As far as COOL- both countries should have it- both Canadian or American consumers should be able to tell if that product comes from the US, Canada, Mexico, Uruguay or, as I suspect we will see much of in the future, Australia and Brazil.........

 

[Anonymous]

OLDTIMER WROTE "I know that is not true- you raise a good product"

by saying this are you saying the R-CALF is lieing every time they say our beef is unsafe, tainted, an added risk to the US herd and consumer health. Oldtimer I thought you believed every word Bill Bullard spoke and now you tell us the you think we have a "good product"

Tam- to clarify for you- Canadians raise great cattle- Canadians produce great beef---BUT right now there is a huge black cloud hanging over these cattle called BSE.... I feel that so far not enough testing has taken place over a long enough time period to prove that they are safe or that they don't constitute a risk.... BSE has an incubation period, and since post-ban cattle are showing up now it leaves a big question --How many more are there? I think we need to find out more about the extent of infection and the disease itself before we begin lowering or dropping any barriers that were put in place to protect the US cattle herd, beef industry and US consumer...

 

[Northern Rancher]

Oldtimer just who has Canada ever surrendered too-as the son of a WW2 veteran with 3 uncles buried in Europe I find your stay at home patriotism sickening-I've never heard a U.S. soldier question the bravery of Canadians just you big mouths that are at home safe and warm. In fact if I remeber right my country was in WW2 for 3 years before you showed up maybe were just returning the favour in Iraq.

 

[Anonymous]

Oldtimer just who has Canada ever surrendered too-as the son of a WW2 veteran with 3 uncles buried in Europe I find your stay at home patriotism sickening-I've never heard a U.S. soldier question the bravery of Canadians just you big mouths that are at home safe and warm. In fact if I remeber right my country was in WW2 for 3 years before you showed up maybe were just returning the favour in Iraq.

my comment was to a frenchman..........not to Canadians or you...and I was wrong to say it-- I know better than to answer personal attacks in kind.........

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Oldtimer, you have said so many things it is hard to keep setting you straight. I was just reading a post on page four where you said how do we know the packers aren't making hamberger out of horse meat. I had a friend that worked in the plant in Ft McLeod that killed horse and buffalo. He wanted to buy some Buffalo and said don't give me any horse meat and they said "NO CHANCE" as horse meat was way more expensive then Bison. So quit throwing scarey statemet around it doesn't do your credibility any good.
As far as blanket testing we are still a minimun risk country because of the number of cases compared to our herd size. Britian had 1000's of cases. we have had 3.5. as far as testing we are testing at a higher level then the US and removing the SRM which is supposed to make it safe anyway.
I can't see as how we will lower your market much as our feeder and fat prices are getting to a liveable level with the export of boxed beef. our cow prices would pick up but most of the meat it would diplace would be other imported meat into the US right now as your packers want animals to process.
My biggest BEEF with R-CALF is the outright LIES the have stated about the safety of Canadian beef and the irrepairable damage they will have caused the North American Beef industry when a BSE postive cow is found in the US. And that is NOT saying I want to see a case of BSE found in the US as I have lived thru this in Canada I don't want to deal with it again . :cowboy:

 

[frenchie]

I wonder if Oldtimer ever had to feed any of that dreaded Canadian hay, they were subsided to buy. :wink:

frenchie- I haven't had to feed any of your hay and have never raised or bought subsidized hay.............

frenchie, MR, Kato, Tam-- You can slam me all you want- you can slam R-CALF all you want-- But none of you have answered my one question yet... Why are Canadians afraid to compete in the open? Why are they afraid to have their beef labeled and laid out beside US beef? Is there a fear that it is an inferior product that can't compete in the open without the retail charade of putting the USDA stamp on it and passing it off as a US product? I know that is not true- you raise a good product- but your continued peeking around the USDA's skirts doesn't make it look that way......

You spend all your energies blaming your entire situation on R-CALF- I guess that comes from the frustration of not being able to do anything- we did that down here for years too- just took what was offered to us...

You have put Bill Bullard on a pedestal of power somewhere comparable to Joseph Stalin or the Pope....Canadians must think he can walk on water as in awe of him as they are.....I've just been waiting for one of you to blame the bad weather on him too--Imagine- one little group made up of producers who are fighting to get the best prices and marketing opportunities for its members can put a whole nations industry into trembling by just mentioning their name.....My God what a great country we live in- there is still hope for the average guy.......

So Oldtimer never got a subsidy ever...highly unlikely

Oldtimer i have told you before I have no problems with Canadian beef marked as such..I guess you forgot again, how convienent I,m absolutely not afaid to compete with U.S beef at any time anywhere.

Oldtimer You spend all your time blaming the Canadians for your problems.

As far as Animal Rights people, Bullard and yourself....You made your bed ,now lie in it

 

[frenchie]

Everyone does know that Canada produces good beef.


SSAP-- How would anyone know that? I'll bet you could ask 90% of the US consumers and they would tell you they have never ate Canadian beef- it has all came into the US, had the Canadian markings removed, had a USDA inspected stamp slapped on it and passed off as a US product.....

The only thing consumers know about Canadian beef is that the Canadian cows have mad cow- and they got that from the media coverage.....

And R-calf

 

[Mike]

frenchie:"So Oldtimer never got a subsidy ever...highly unlikely"

I just searched the "Farm Subsidy Database" and found that Oldtimer has NOT received any subsidies from 1995 to 2003. For your info.

Livestock subsidies down here are paid usually only during extreme droughts, etc. If he didn't take any during these years it was his own choosing because they were available.

 

[frenchie]

Oldtimer just who has Canada ever surrendered too-as the son of a WW2 veteran with 3 uncles buried in Europe I find your stay at home patriotism sickening-I've never heard a U.S. soldier question the bravery of Canadians just you big mouths that are at home safe and warm. In fact if I remeber right my country was in WW2 for 3 years before you showed up maybe were just returning the favour in Iraq.

my comment was to a frenchman..........not to Canadians or you...and I was wrong to say it-- I know better than to answer personal attacks in kind.........

Personal Oldtimer...your a laugh .I called a spade a spade

As far as surrendering to anything....never happened...my family is full of WW1 and WW2 vets as well as Korean War vets..And they left a few behind in Europe.

 

[frenchie]

frenchie:"So Oldtimer never got a subsidy ever...highly unlikely"

I just searched the "Farm Subsidy Database" and found that Oldtimer has NOT received any subsidies from 1995 to 2003. For your info.

Livestock subsidies down here are paid usually only during extreme droughts, etc. If he didn't take any during these years it was his own choosing because they were available.

And before that date Mike.. please post a link

 

[Mike]

Farm Subsidy Database:

http://www.ewg.org/

 

[Manitoba_Rancher]

Oldtimer: The only thing consumers know about Canadian beef is that the Canadian cows have mad cow- and they got that from the media coverage....."

And has anyone from your cult gathering had anything to do with this? yes or no? R-cult has been told they can't fight the border opening on price protection so now they ve turned to saying our beef is diseased!
R-calf is always handing out news releases on Canadian cattle being full of BSE. Well I think we as Canadians should start sending out News releases saying R-calf and its members are full of BS! Anyone remember the people that died in that big relidgious cult in WAKO texas? Well I think the leaders of that cult got out and now are heading R-calf! Better get the military ready to go into Billings when they loose there fight against Canadian cattle because there will be trouble. I can see it all now they will lock themselves up in there head office along with OT, and Nebrusker , and a few other 100 members and they will be threating to kill themselves if Canadian cattle cross the border.


As far as I can see alot of American buyers are up here buying cattle, even some close fat cattle getting ready for the border opening. Hold onto your hats R-calf I think they will get blown off your skinny empty heads by cattle trucks hauling yes Canadian UTM cattle!

 

[Tam]

OLDTIMER WROTE "I know that is not true- you raise a good product"

by saying this are you saying the R-CALF is lieing every time they say our beef is unsafe, tainted, an added risk to the US herd and consumer health. Oldtimer I thought you believed every word Bill Bullard spoke and now you tell us the you think we have a "good product"

Tam- to clarify for you- Canadians raise great cattle- Canadians produce great beef---BUT right now there is a huge black cloud hanging over these cattle called BSE.... I feel that so far not enough testing has taken place over a long enough time period to prove that they are safe or that they don't constitute a risk.... BSE has an incubation period, and since post-ban cattle are showing up now it leaves a big question --How many more are there? I think we need to find out more about the extent of infection and the disease itself before we begin lowering or dropping any barriers that were put in place to protect the US cattle herd, beef industry and US consumer...

Most the rest of the world sees a black cloud of doubt hanging over the US herd and you are still hiding behind the lies and blameing Canada aren't you? The rest of the world closed exports to you because of one Canadian cow but if they trusted your beef system they would be taking US beef now wouldn't they. They don't trust your beef because that one Canadian cow was in YOUR food chain and they know just how many more animals were imported that you can't find. In the OIE report it states that other infected cattle could have come in to the US in the past and since they weren't detected, infected material was probably rendered and fed back to cattle and amplified within the US herd. They also recommended that the US cease the investigation for these animals as without a tracking system the likelyhood of finding them all is nil. The USDA took that advice but the OIE also said to redirect resources into the planning, implementation and enforcement of an extented, targeted, surveillance program and other measures to protest human and animal health. Does the USDA really think that a one time shot testing of 250,000 head of slaughter cattle is what the OIE ment by an EXTENDED, TARGETED surveillance program. The targeted animals that were recommended to the US were "The population with the highest risk for BSE have been shown to be those exhibiting signs compatible with BSE(passive surveillance), fallen stock(cattle that die on the farm and during transport), and cattle for emergency slaughter older than 30 months, which includes all catagories of downers cows. The OIE said a one year programm could achieve the goal but they recommended it with the idea that the USDA would be testing all downers not the very small percentage of slaughter cattle that the US is testing.
Did you forget the OIE rule that says you can't put restriction on a importing country that you yourself don't practice on your domestic herd?
How do you think the US would react if Canada did go to 100% testing? The USDA doesn't want to 100% test and that is why they are not telling Canada we have to. If the US had to go to 100% testing they couldn't pick and choose which animals were to slip by without a test like they have in the past.
Again with the Protect the US cattle herd.and US consumers Tell us just how is the US herd and consumers put in danger Oldtimer if the US slaughter plants and feed mills comply to the rules that are in place to protect them. Removal of the SRM removes risk to consumers and feed bans were implemented to protect the US herd. SO how can either be protected further by not allowing importing cattle of any age in for slaughter in your plants. Are you telling us the the US plants (slaughter and feed) are not compliant with the rules? And if they aren't what is protecting the US herd and US consumers from the animals that the rest of the world knows exsist in the US herd. :???:
By the Way Oldtimer just how many years do you think it will take and do you think the USDA are willing to live with the same time frame if/when BSE is found in the US herd? How many years do you think the USDA will 100% test to prove to your trading partners that the US beef isn't totally comtaminated when they won't even test your downers now? Remember what you ask for the USDA will have to abide by when BSE is found there.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Oldtimer"I believe that is one of the things that has upset many Agriculture and consumer groups- and made them question the actions of animal and health safety depts of both countries- Any other country in the world that found as many BSE cattle as Canada has went to testing everything until they found the full extent of the problem and shown they had it eliminated--all the rules and past practices were bent and broke for Canada...

The rules made by the USDA were the rules they want to have to live by when BSE is found in the US. It was alot easier to set the rules for the world when it was Canada suffering and not the US producers. :cowboy:

 

[frenchie]

frenchie:"So Oldtimer never got a subsidy ever...highly unlikely"

I just searched the "Farm Subsidy Database" and found that Oldtimer has NOT received any subsidies from 1995 to 2003. For your info.

Livestock subsidies down here are paid usually only during extreme droughts, etc. If he didn't take any during these years it was his own choosing because they were available.

you lied I will send you the direct link in your P.M Oldtimer I had orginally posted the link...but that was wrong

 

[Anonymous]

frenchie:"So Oldtimer never got a subsidy ever...highly unlikely"

I just searched the "Farm Subsidy Database" and found that Oldtimer has NOT received any subsidies from 1995 to 2003. For your info.

Livestock subsidies down here are paid usually only during extreme droughts, etc. If he didn't take any during these years it was his own choosing because they were available.

you lied http://www.ewg.org/farm/addrsearch.php?s=yup&stab=MT&city=&zip=&last=Britzman&first=Richard&i=Search+Recipients&fullname=


Sorry OT its public info

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Frenchie- can you read????-- this is what I posted....

frenchie- I haven't had to feed any of your hay and have never raised or bought subsidized hay.............

I did not lie---I have never got subsidy payments for hay.............If you look futher you will find that I got drought disaster for some cows I had in a drought county and a barley payment because I have a barley allotment on some land........

And I will agree that much of our Farm program is a farce- the barley payments I get without even seeding barley, but you have to sign up for it in order to maintain it or have it to sell with the land........I can't even remember when that program started----

Did you happen to notice how high I am in the county rolls--- Last time I looked I was #837 out of 1100 county recipients in a county that has a population of about 7500.......I'm really playing the government system..... :lol:

 

[frenchie]

frenchie:"So Oldtimer never got a subsidy ever...highly unlikely"

I just searched the "Farm Subsidy Database" and found that Oldtimer has NOT received any subsidies from 1995 to 2003. For your info.

Livestock subsidies down here are paid usually only during extreme droughts, etc. If he didn't take any during these years it was his own choosing because they were available.

you lied http://www.ewg.org/farm/addrsearch.php?s=yup&stab=MT&city=&zip=&last=Britzman&first=Richard&i=Search+Recipients&fullname=


Sorry OT its public info

-----------------------------------------

Frenchie- can you read????-- this is what I posted....

frenchie- I haven't had to feed any of your hay and have never raised or bought subsidized hay.............

I did not lie---I have never got subsidy payments for hay.............If you look futher you will find that I got drought disaster for some cows I had in a drought county and a barley payment because I have a barley allotment on some land........

And I will agree that much of our Farm program is a farce- the barley payments I get without even seeding barley, but you have to sign up for it in order to maintain it or have it to sell with the land........I can't even remember when that program started----

Did you happen to notice how high I am in the county rolls--- Last time I looked I was #837 out of 1100 county recipients in a county that has a population of about 7500.......I'm really playing the government system..... :lol:

I meant MIKe lied OT....and I am sorry I posted the direct link.That was plain wrong.

Are you saying you defrauded the Gov,t by not seeding land to barley :shock:

 

[Anonymous]

I meant MIKe lied OT....and I am sorry I posted the direct link.That was plain wrong.

Are you saying you defrauded the Gov,t by not seeding land to barley :shock:[/quote]
--------------------------------------------

Nope Frenchie -- They know exactly what is going on- In fact the current Sheriff's wife- who runs the local conservation office calls me and reminds me and helps me fill the paperwork out-- someone smarter than me will have to tell you why they pay you not to plant.....But if you drop it, you lower the land value.....Much of these programs were supposed to go away with the Freedom to Farm Act- I think all it did was add more......