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It's Pretty Sad........And Some Good News, Too!!!!

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Ranchy

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I picked up the Junior Livestock Sale pictures from our fair, in Reserve yesterday. I got all my 4-H kids theirs, at our meeting last night, then Al and I stopped by the FFA member's house, to leave his. Got to visiting with his mom a little, and became very "enlightened" about some of the politics that go on "behind the scenes" at our little county fair.

I found out that the guy whose kids usually win Grand or Reserve Champion in just about everything they're entered with......also picks the judge. Hmmmmmmmmm. Interesting, don'tcha think?

The 11-year old son of the afore mentioned parent, was congratulated recently on his Reserve Champion Steer at the State Fair. Reportedly, he said "of course I won, I didn't come here to loose".........makes ya wonder just what the heck we're teaching our kids?

Also.......you don't stand a chance of winning Grand unless you have one of four different last names. I got to checking out the winners from the past 5 years, and guess what? She was right. Out of all the Grands during that time, there were only 4 who didn't have the "right" last name (of those were the kid who won with his heifer this year, Al for his heifer last year, the gal who won with her goat last year, and our neice with her pig back in 2005) ......hmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

She's also looking for a replacement for her Fair Board position, and I was thinking of maybe taking her up on it, since she was hinting like crazy at it, if it doesn't mean I'd have to make a choice between Fair Board and being a 4-H leader. Not sure how that works, conflict of interest or something maybe.

On a happier note, the heifer that beat Al's Bandita out for Grand at our fair, won Grand Champion Maine-Anjou (or however you spell it) and third overall heifer, at the State Fair. Kinda makes ya feel better, knowing your kid was beat by someone who actually had a better heifer in the eyes of different judges, instead of it just being another game of politics, and such.

Also did 4-H Member of the Year elections last night, and Al tied with his cousin.........we're probably going to have co-winners this year.........

Al also is our VP for the year, narrowly losing the #1 position to the same cousin........lol And for the first time in several years, there are less Laney members, than other family names here........lol Nice to see some other families taking an interest. We even have 2 new members who are moving up from Clover Buds this year (both sisters of current members).....one was elected as Treasurer for the club, the other is going to be our Historian. Gotta love the enthusiasm of the little ones! They were so excited......... 8)
 
Ranchy said:
I picked up the Junior Livestock Sale pictures from our fair, in Reserve yesterday. I got all my 4-H kids theirs, at our meeting last night, then Al and I stopped by the FFA member's house, to leave his. Got to visiting with his mom a little, and became very "enlightened" about some of the politics that go on "behind the scenes" at our little county fair.

I found out that the guy whose kids usually win Grand or Reserve Champion in just about everything they're entered with......also picks the judge. Hmmmmmmmmm. Interesting, don'tcha think?

The 11-year old son of the afore mentioned parent, was congratulated recently on his Reserve Champion Steer at the State Fair. Reportedly, he said "of course I won, I didn't come here to loose".........makes ya wonder just what the heck we're teaching our kids?

Also.......you don't stand a chance of winning Grand unless you have one of four different last names. I got to checking out the winners from the past 5 years, and guess what? She was right. Out of all the Grands during that time, there were only 4 who didn't have the "right" last name (of those were the kid who won with his heifer this year, Al for his heifer last year, the gal who won with her goat last year, and our neice with her pig back in 2005) ......hmmmmmmmmmmmm.....





Hate to break it to you.....but this IS NOT news on the small time ( nor big time) show circuit!!!
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that is the exact reason I do not let my kids do the 4h thing. also I don't have the time to run everywhere for all the stuff they do. I have heard too many parents say they have to go home and finish Jr's 4h project.

plus, if my kids showed cattle, they would compete with a neighbor who has some nationally know cattle of the same breed. why should a 7th grader compete against a professional
 
Guess y'all can just call me niave? It was a shocker to me, that's for sure! :shock: :shock: :shock:

It's just too bad that things are that way............I really don't think 4-H was set up to teach those kinda things.............it makes me pretty sad. :(

Now, I'm not sure I could even make a difference, if I was on the Fair Board....... :?
 
jigs said:
that is the exact reason I do not let my kids do the 4h thing. also I don't have the time to run everywhere for all the stuff they do. I have heard too many parents say they have to go home and finish Jr's 4h project.

plus, if my kids showed cattle, they would compete with a neighbor who has some nationally know cattle of the same breed. why should a 7th grader compete against a professional
Click to expand...

Dittos all the way around. My perverted theory is that a person can run an extra hundred ranch cows on less work than one or two show calves require. :wink: :)
 
I am on my way to greatness, for I now realize I think like Soapweed....... ok, so a Soapweed with Herefords, but still I am pointed in the right direction!







you can show this to Peach Blossom next time she doubts you, as proof SOMEONE believes in you! :wink:
 
jigs said:
I am on my way to greatness, for I now realize I think like Soapweed....... ok, so a Soapweed with Herefords, but still I am pointed in the right direction!

you can show this to Peach Blossom next time she doubts you, as proof SOMEONE believes in you! :wink:
Click to expand...

Thanks for the encouraging words. I need all the allies I can get. :wink: :)
 
I guess we are pretty fortunate in our County...Yes, 1 kid kicks everyones Butt Every year....Guess what? He travels and Kicks butt all over with great animals and hard work...Very nice kid and all the other kids think very highly of him.....One girl once came home and said, "______ is just the smartest kid ever"..... He is well liked by everyone, even his competitors.....


I say this because it is rewarding to know that in spite of a lot of bad around, it is extremely heartening to know it does work out....
 
I like & support 4H. I told our Daughter that wanted to participate that if we were in it for the ribbons, that I'd go buy a box of ribbons and forget the work involved. There was indeed a lot of work involved, just as soapweed says. That was one of the things that was a lot of profit to her. I would not feed for her or do her job. Of coarse there were many times that I had to help her do the job. It was a lot of time on both our parts. I guess that was a profitable thing too. I spent time with her o;n her project. She learned a lot about feeding, responsibility, record keeping, public speaking, working with and helping others, and being a sucess even without a purple ribbon. The best year was when her home raised Char steer made the final drive, but the judge knocked her out because "although her steer was put up right, her animal just wouldn't grade". Her steer got a blue in class, but the reserve champion carcass when the hide was off. The judge's pick was 26th in carcass. Sarah learned that she can be right, and the judge can be wrong. The experience is the reward, not the ribbons. Go you 4H kids, here is one old man that is behind ya! :D :D
 
I reread Ranch'ys post. 4 different last names in 5 years is real good. At our fair it is 4 names in the last 20 years!! A lot of that has to do with how much they spend for the club calf. Lots of people are in it for the wrong reason--thats their loss. We always took something from home, knowing that we wouldn,t win the show, but would have some fun in the race. We made more money over the period of years, than the people who spent tons of money trying to get a $10 ribbon. The public always supported the kids well at the sale. The most important trait in a club calf is disposition. Will this be a calf that likes people, will he be easy, and fun to work with? A raunchy calf will undo the whole purpose of the project.
 
Shortgrass....I was trying to think of a way to say just that...It is about what you get out of it, not what someone else "Gives" you for it...

I was floored when a friend of mine who raises Limo's made this comment. His Kids steer won Grand Champion several years in a row...Good kid that worked hard and I do not in anyway dismiss him getting what he earned...He did..

However, the dad was floored when the steer was middle of the class in carcass data...His comment was the graders must not undersand because their opinion differed from the judges....Ummmm...What ultimetly matters?

LOL,

PPRM
 
You know the same names win at our club too but I've found that they usually work harder and have better calves alot of the time. I get so sick of sour grapes about 4H, minor sport,school sports etc-if winning isn't everything why is everybody so devastated when you don't. There's a million excuses you can dredge up for keeping your kids out of things-about five of them are valid. No matter what situation your child is in there's a positive. I've had kids finish dead last-sit on the bench-and get cut for maybe the wrong reasons-did we pee and moan about it not hardly-you suck it up and try harder next time. I just finished making cuts for three teams in hockey-believe me its not an easy task-I look at it this way-our rink rafters are full of Meadow Lake kids who went on the play pro-EVERY one of them faced setbacks on the way-not one of them packed it in. My parents kept me out of 4H because of perceived injustices-I never really forgave them for it-something to think about.
 
Good comments! I can see both sides of the issue. Jiggs and Soapweed, we did pretty much as you did and did not get our kids into 4-H. My siblings did the 4-H thing and learned a lot and did fairly well, although there were many instances on the bad side, pretty much as described in the thread.

My mother enjoyed it more and learned even more than the kids because when they studied plants, she learned the names of things she had observed closely from childhood when she and some of her siblings had to herd their cattle, mostly on foot, to keep them where they belonged. She treasured the kids week books as long as she lived, using them as references when curious about something she saw while riding on the cows.

Now, from what I hear/see in my area, I think kids learn a lot and maybe there is more fairness in some places today. There just is not way to make life equal in a free society, is there? But if all have opportunities, luck, like rain, falls on the just and unjust alike.

"Club Calves" have long been a problem. Aside from the fair or unfair aspects, don't they perpetuate the ills of the show circuit? Until judging focuses more on reality than the show circuit criteria and relies more on carcass merit, it seems people are not well served by the "Club Calf" jockeys, IMO.

mrj
 
The market beef judge at our county fair a year ago made a comment before he selected the Grand Champion Steer. He said that every exhibitor in the ring that day was a winner. They had started and finished a project. The cattle were well broke and had been worked with a lot. As a group they had been well fed and cared for. I believe he is right. We have families that are always very competitive in the show ring. Also, we have families that are very competitive in the rate of gain. And, our county fair is fortunate to have a carcass show. So, a lot of kids win. . .they all win if they do their own chores.

Another great thing our county fair started a few years ago is a bucket calf class. We had over 20 bucket calves exhibited. The kids are visited at least once at home and interviewed during the show.(I am on the committee) and 2/3 of the results are based on how much the kids know about the care and feeding of the calf. The little girl that won this year had an order buyer purchase her dairy crossbred heifer out of a sale barn. It was sick when it got home (bloody scours). She slept in the barn with it for 3 days to feed and medicate it every four hours. The family had NEVER owned a bovine before.

Our State Fair (Iowa) has a performance beef class in both 4-H and FFA. Results are based totally on weight per day of age and carcass value. I don't know of anything more "real" in the beef industry over a 220 day feeding period.

Also, we have families that go spend big bucks for calves and hire professional fitters. I don't like the message it sends to the kids. My own kids never paid over $700 for a steer or $1200 for a heifer. But every year we would have a rate of gain winner or a carcass show winner or a breed champion. They never made a lot of money. . .but, They never lost any and I always thought there were a lot worse things they could be doing than chores. and, no one can tell them they don't know ****. :D

I had a lad in the pasture last week. . .looking for an angus steer. .. his goal before he graduates is to have every "county raised" breed champion at our county fair. Yes, we have a breed show and "county" produced champions. AND< it takes a pretty good calf to get the banner. We had 93 county produced cattle at our county fair last year (157 head over all). He had 2 county produced breed champions last year. He needs angus and charlois to accomplish his goal. I believe he has a good chance of getting it done.

I guess what I am saying here is that = It will be what you make of it. If the only thing that is important is winning. YOU LOSE>>>>
 
I think 4-H and FFA projects are a great opportunity to teach kids responsibility. There are always those parents that "help" alot more than they should, but there are always that many or more kids that are actually out there doing the work. It's also a great social organization for kids. They make relationships they never would have made without 4-H and FFA activities.

For the past couple of years I have been taking some calves to a sale for youngsters to come and purchased ranch raised "club calves". Most of the kids buying are not raised on a beef operation, but want to be involved with a project at the fair. Sure, I do most of the hard work getting them calmed down, but if those kids go on and take care of the rest and do a good job, it makes me feel like the hard work I do is worth it.

Politics are politics, it happens everywhere. Its the parents that make a big deal out of it and get their kids feeling the same way. I am not disagreeing with anyone that there is always that family that shows alot and has the good cavles and wins alot, I was one of those kids at one time. But you can't hold back because of that. I bet if your neighbor that always wins and has good cattle, would help a youngster that wants to get going.
 
I was in 4-H , FFA, and a few other groups. I took many first places, lots of inbetweens, and a lot of last places. I learned the work ethic , public speaking, and to stand up for what is right.

FHA, 4-H, FFA, Lutheran Pioneers, Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, Art , Drama, or Political clubs that teach our Children to be better people and better citizens are a PLUS for the future of our country. The hard part is that as parents is realizing that it is our responsibility to encourage our youth to make the most of these programs.
 
Seems to me that most of the politics that might be going on at the county fair are between families. I've judged lots of fairs and have seen the most discontent when the "wrong kid" wins the purple ribbon. Usually the "wrong kid" is a youngster that wins every year (or the family does) and they typically put a lot of effort toward winning. Lots of times that extra effort includes extra dollars. May not be the true intent of the livestock show, but it's the real world. As Northern said, those kids and their parents that put up the big bucks to buy their livestock are often working very hard every day to make their investement pay off. I can't say that they are bad people for that. They're putting their money where they place some importance. It's not necessarily a level playing field since not everyone can spend that kind of money. Oh well, I've been learning that life isn't fair for a long time now. :wink: :lol:

Blaming the judge for political ties to the family that wins is usually a bunch of hogwash. Now the judge might not be a very good evaluator (I've been accused of that :lol: ) but if you're not really a judge of livestock yourself, how is it right to jump on the judge? Most judges that I know just love to work with youth that have an interest in livestock and participating in what is supposed to be a great learning and growing experience. Usually it's the parents that mess the whole thing up.
 
there are a lot of good things they get out of 4h, but most of the ones I talk to say we need to get our kids in there because they get so much money. well, that is not a good enough reason for me. if they want a few calves, I will set them up, then when they sell, the money is thiers. let them learn the real world , not an inflated pyramid scam of marketing
 
One of the most powerful testimonials I ever heard for 4H was a cousin of mine. He served on the parole board for the state of Colorado for a few years. He said in reviewing prisoners files that were applying for parole, he never saw a prisoner that had had extensive 4H experience. Evidently the things that are learned contribute to being productive citizens.
 
4-H is a great way for parents and kids to "bond" and spend quality time together. It does teach responsibilities. In my own case, when I was eight years old, my dad asked me if I wanted to join the 4-H club. I asked what it would involve, and he said that I would learn to lead a calf and show it. My response was, "Could I ride it instead?" He more or less indicated that it could be a possibility. Guess what? He would never let me ride my 4-H calf, and it almost seemed to me to be a breach of promise. :? :wink: :)

I just hated coming home from school and having to break a stupid Hereford calf to lead. Work itself wasn't disliked; it was just that I didn't like that kind of work. I would much rather have ridden horseback and handled cattle in that fashion. Even fixing fence would have been preferred to tying up calves to wash them. Looking back, 4-H was probably "good for me," but there are just about as many unpleasant memories as there were fun rewarding times.

Once again, a good motto to live by is, "all things in moderation." This would certainly include 4-H activities and sports. Sure, a little friendly competition is great, but when it is a "winner take all" attitude, and be darned who gets tromped in the process, it goes way beyond sensibility.

One thing to consider is whether the kids are really all that interested in these types of activities, or is it the parents trying to live out their own unfulfilled dreams through their children. I've seen cases where a boy doesn't really care at all for football, but their dad thinks they should be the star player. The dad puts more miles on charging up and down the sidelines than the kid does playing in the game. The dad will chain smoke cigarettes and holler until he is blue in the face, and all that goes wrong is the fault of the coach and the referees.

It really doesn't matter if a person or team wins or loses; it is how they played the game. If hanky panky crooked stuff is involved to win, it is better to lose.

Another consideration is that we all march to a different drummer. What is very important to one person is not at all important to another. That doesn't mean either one is wrong; it just means they have different interests.
 

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