bse-tester
Well-known member
And so it begins - again.
It's Prion time again in Alberta.
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bse-tester
Well-known member
Alberta mad cow case is Canada's 12th
Hanneke Brooymans, edmontonjournal.com
Published: 12:12 pm
EDMONTON - Mad cow disease has been found in a six-year-old dairy cow from Alberta, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency said today.
No part of the animal's carcass entered the human food or animal feed systems, the agency said in a statement.
This 12th case of bovine spongiform encephalopathy in Canada will not affect the country's "controlled-risk" status, the agency added.
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Font:****This new case is in an animal born five years after a feed ban was introduced in 1997. The ban is supposed to greatly reduce the chances of transmitting the disease.
Canada's 11th case of BSE was also found in Alberta on a farm east of Red Deer this past December. That animal was a 13-year-old beef cow. Nine of the 12 cases have been found in Alberta.
The food inspection agency says that as Canada progresses toward eradication of BSE, a small number of cases is expected to appear from time to time. Canada's BSE surveillance program, which targets the highest-risk animals and regions, continues to benefit from very strong producer participation, the agency adds.
So far this year, 6,228 samples from high-risk animals have been tested. Last year's sampling program tested 58,177 animals.
The first positive case in Canada was found in Alberta in 2003.
Hanneke Brooymans, edmontonjournal.com
Published: 12:12 pm
EDMONTON - Mad cow disease has been found in a six-year-old dairy cow from Alberta, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency said today.
No part of the animal's carcass entered the human food or animal feed systems, the agency said in a statement.
This 12th case of bovine spongiform encephalopathy in Canada will not affect the country's "controlled-risk" status, the agency added.
Email to a friend
Printer friendly
Font:****This new case is in an animal born five years after a feed ban was introduced in 1997. The ban is supposed to greatly reduce the chances of transmitting the disease.
Canada's 11th case of BSE was also found in Alberta on a farm east of Red Deer this past December. That animal was a 13-year-old beef cow. Nine of the 12 cases have been found in Alberta.
The food inspection agency says that as Canada progresses toward eradication of BSE, a small number of cases is expected to appear from time to time. Canada's BSE surveillance program, which targets the highest-risk animals and regions, continues to benefit from very strong producer participation, the agency adds.
So far this year, 6,228 samples from high-risk animals have been tested. Last year's sampling program tested 58,177 animals.
The first positive case in Canada was found in Alberta in 2003.
don
Well-known member
so where the heck is this wonder test of yours and what good will it do us?
bse-tester
Well-known member
Are you asking or being sarcastic? It sure sounded sarcastic Don??
You decide where it is and then ask the CFIA why they punted it out of their offices in 2003 - that is if you want to be sarcastic of course?
Also, as long as they only test 30K or 40K of the total amount of testable animals, ask yourself how many they have missed and you and I have possibly eaten. That is of course, if you continue to want to be sarcastic???
You decide where it is and then ask the CFIA why they punted it out of their offices in 2003 - that is if you want to be sarcastic of course?
Also, as long as they only test 30K or 40K of the total amount of testable animals, ask yourself how many they have missed and you and I have possibly eaten. That is of course, if you continue to want to be sarcastic???
Shaft
Well-known member
BSE-tester,
On a guaranteed non-sarcastic note, I would be grateful to learn:
1. The type of test you propose. Is it a fluorescent antibody ELISA sandwich, for example?
2. What is the specificity?
3. What is the sensitivity?
4. Does it detect all three subtypes of BSE (C, H and L)?
On a guaranteed non-sarcastic note, I would be grateful to learn:
1. The type of test you propose. Is it a fluorescent antibody ELISA sandwich, for example?
2. What is the specificity?
3. What is the sensitivity?
4. Does it detect all three subtypes of BSE (C, H and L)?
don
Well-known member
just seems so coincidental that they find another positive and here you are again. i wish you would outline the specific benefits of a live test because it will not, as far as i can see, certify a herd as bse free. with the 'sound science' it has a long incubation period so an animal tested a month or a year before slaughter is not going to be accepted as negative and we have a definitive test we just need to use on every animal slaughtered or those over a certain age. maybe your test will have a screening or convenience value but for the time being i don't see it as a big issue. your biggest problem isn't with sarcastic skeptics, cfia presently doesn't care if you can turn lead into gold they won't allow your test.
bse-tester
Well-known member
Don wrote:
So here I am again - but then, here you are again, how strange is that?? I never left the board Don and I have actually been known to discuss other issues on it other than my test.
An animal tested a month or a year prior to slaughter Don will show up as positive if it is carrying the deadly isoform PrPsc. Also, the confirmatory test is done at the time of slaughter so kind of puts your argument to bed I think. Further to your comments regarding what you perceive as "sound science." I would ask you to define what you regard as being "sound science" Don and I sure as heck hope you are not referring to the current tests being used by the CFIA and the USDA??? Because if you are, then my friend, you know little of what is supposed to be "sound science."
Lastly, what kind of test would you suggest Don that would actually certify a herd as being BSE free if it were availalbe??? Come on Don, tell us what test would meet your requirements for that distinction?
Seems to me Don, that you sound like a lot of other producers who frankly don't give a darn about whether or not you animals should be tested or not for BSE as long as you get your price per pound! What does that provide the consumer Don - a slim chance that your animals were among the pitiful few that were tested under the current miserable standard??
So here I am again - but then, here you are again, how strange is that?? I never left the board Don and I have actually been known to discuss other issues on it other than my test.
An animal tested a month or a year prior to slaughter Don will show up as positive if it is carrying the deadly isoform PrPsc. Also, the confirmatory test is done at the time of slaughter so kind of puts your argument to bed I think. Further to your comments regarding what you perceive as "sound science." I would ask you to define what you regard as being "sound science" Don and I sure as heck hope you are not referring to the current tests being used by the CFIA and the USDA??? Because if you are, then my friend, you know little of what is supposed to be "sound science."
Lastly, what kind of test would you suggest Don that would actually certify a herd as being BSE free if it were availalbe??? Come on Don, tell us what test would meet your requirements for that distinction?
Seems to me Don, that you sound like a lot of other producers who frankly don't give a darn about whether or not you animals should be tested or not for BSE as long as you get your price per pound! What does that provide the consumer Don - a slim chance that your animals were among the pitiful few that were tested under the current miserable standard??
don
Well-known member
i think every animal slaughtered should be tested for bse before it can be fed to anything. my point is that a bse free herd means nothing if the incubation period is as long as seems to be accepted. you can weed out the positives at the time of testing but if you retest a year later you could find others so test at slaughter. i do give a darn and i do want my animals tested. i would hate to be party to anything like that circus in california and then have it fed to schoolkids. i agree that the current standard is not high enough but i don't need you crawling out of the woodwork whenever there is a positive to proclaim that you can save the world. i wonder if you would know much at all about tse's if you weren't an investor. believe me i have capital at stake here too and i would dearly love to see all animals tested to determine the prevalence and insure the safety of the beef being eaten but i don't see your enterprise as being the only path to salvation.
bse-tester
Well-known member
Shaft wrote:
In order to give you a definitive answer Shaft, the urine test will detect the presence of all TSE's - that is it will identify the presence of PrP, PrPc & PrPsc. It matters not whether the malformed isoform - PrPsc - is detected in a deer, a goat, cattle or sheep or whether it is a classical or a-typical or whatever - it is still PrPsc. Having said that, evidence is mounting that shows that different strins of prion disease are certainly surfacing and our test has been able to detect and identify all so far. Further, the test utilises Western Blot with an exceedingly high level of sensitivity. we have detected PrPsc in as little as 1 ml of urine and done so repeatedly.
The test will also identify the early stages of CJD, vCJD, Alzheimer's Disease and Parkinsons Disease. The antibody we use is proprietary and is made specifically for us in Cleveland at the US National Prion Surveillance Labs at Case Western University.
Are you in the field or just reading about prions Shaft?
In order to give you a definitive answer Shaft, the urine test will detect the presence of all TSE's - that is it will identify the presence of PrP, PrPc & PrPsc. It matters not whether the malformed isoform - PrPsc - is detected in a deer, a goat, cattle or sheep or whether it is a classical or a-typical or whatever - it is still PrPsc. Having said that, evidence is mounting that shows that different strins of prion disease are certainly surfacing and our test has been able to detect and identify all so far. Further, the test utilises Western Blot with an exceedingly high level of sensitivity. we have detected PrPsc in as little as 1 ml of urine and done so repeatedly.
The test will also identify the early stages of CJD, vCJD, Alzheimer's Disease and Parkinsons Disease. The antibody we use is proprietary and is made specifically for us in Cleveland at the US National Prion Surveillance Labs at Case Western University.
Are you in the field or just reading about prions Shaft?
bse-tester
Well-known member
Don, you make some good points. Having said that, the current tests being used will not detect PrPsc in any animal in the early stages of the PrPsc beginning to replocate within the host. The test simply is not that sensitive.
Our test will. We have shown that in numerous studies at Case Western. Our test will identify PrPsc in an animal months or even years prior to that animal displaying clinical symptoms and that is what seperates our test from the one the CFIA/USDA uses and my point is simply this - do you think the US & Canadian Governments want to test all animals now that they have received a level 3 ranking from the OIE - sure as hell not!! If they used our test to test all animals, then there would be a heck of a lot more animals found and that would blow their OIE ranking out of the water.
Our test will. We have shown that in numerous studies at Case Western. Our test will identify PrPsc in an animal months or even years prior to that animal displaying clinical symptoms and that is what seperates our test from the one the CFIA/USDA uses and my point is simply this - do you think the US & Canadian Governments want to test all animals now that they have received a level 3 ranking from the OIE - sure as hell not!! If they used our test to test all animals, then there would be a heck of a lot more animals found and that would blow their OIE ranking out of the water.
Sandhusker
Well-known member
Ron, surely you're not implying that our governments are prioritizing trade over safety, are you? Please say it isn't so!
Shaft
Well-known member
BSE-tester,
It would be fair to say that in a previous incarnation I was directly in the field, having done my post-graduate work in immunology at the University of Texas Health Science Centre at Dallas (an absolutely beautiful facility - I was extremely fortunate to be there), and having an ongoing, serious and abiding interest in prions ever since reading Stanley Prusiner's very entertaining survey article in Scientific American back when dinosaurs roamed the earth. 25 years ago. I feel old just thinking about it.
However, I have since become what has been colloquially termed by that famous joke as a "scum-sucking bottom feeder" who now works his tail off in relative obscurity for the benefit of cattle producers and others who have been victimized by government negligence (alleged). Lo, how the mighty have fallen, one might say, but not me. I frankly love it and have every confidence that God, in Her infinite wisdom and mercy, has some larger purpose in mind.
So, the short answer is that yes, I have been officially in the field, and yes I am currently in the field although in a much different guise.
High levels of sensitivity are good, given that false negatives are bad. Do you have a percentage?
What about specificity? BSE, like STD, requires that false positives be kept to an absolute minimum. Specificity issues have always given me pause when it comes to BSE testing. The last thing we need is a test that detects BSE where there is none. Things are bad enough. Do you have a specificity percentage figure?
I presume you have done a workup on the cost of kitting out an onsite mini-lab for testing at the packing plant. It has been quite some time since I looked at Western blot equipment. Is there a proposed timely and cost-effective design that works to test each animal before slaughter that includes a rigorous record-keeping protocol?
Given that the US will never voluntarily agree to BSE test, and COOL threatens to choke off Canadian access to US markets in the absence of BSE testing, I would think that your natural insertion point would be the packing plants in Canada, with the Canadian government providing the tax incentives to pay for it.
Should packers in Canada ever begin to BSE test, as things stand now the US market would likely have an insatiable demand for tested Canadian product. Likely at a premium price. Even Sandhusker agrees that, apart from BSE, Canadian beef is safer. Those of us that know Mike Myers is Canadian suspected all along that SH has a soft spot for the Great White North.
It would be fair to say that in a previous incarnation I was directly in the field, having done my post-graduate work in immunology at the University of Texas Health Science Centre at Dallas (an absolutely beautiful facility - I was extremely fortunate to be there), and having an ongoing, serious and abiding interest in prions ever since reading Stanley Prusiner's very entertaining survey article in Scientific American back when dinosaurs roamed the earth. 25 years ago. I feel old just thinking about it.
However, I have since become what has been colloquially termed by that famous joke as a "scum-sucking bottom feeder" who now works his tail off in relative obscurity for the benefit of cattle producers and others who have been victimized by government negligence (alleged). Lo, how the mighty have fallen, one might say, but not me. I frankly love it and have every confidence that God, in Her infinite wisdom and mercy, has some larger purpose in mind.
So, the short answer is that yes, I have been officially in the field, and yes I am currently in the field although in a much different guise.
High levels of sensitivity are good, given that false negatives are bad. Do you have a percentage?
What about specificity? BSE, like STD, requires that false positives be kept to an absolute minimum. Specificity issues have always given me pause when it comes to BSE testing. The last thing we need is a test that detects BSE where there is none. Things are bad enough. Do you have a specificity percentage figure?
I presume you have done a workup on the cost of kitting out an onsite mini-lab for testing at the packing plant. It has been quite some time since I looked at Western blot equipment. Is there a proposed timely and cost-effective design that works to test each animal before slaughter that includes a rigorous record-keeping protocol?
Given that the US will never voluntarily agree to BSE test, and COOL threatens to choke off Canadian access to US markets in the absence of BSE testing, I would think that your natural insertion point would be the packing plants in Canada, with the Canadian government providing the tax incentives to pay for it.
Should packers in Canada ever begin to BSE test, as things stand now the US market would likely have an insatiable demand for tested Canadian product. Likely at a premium price. Even Sandhusker agrees that, apart from BSE, Canadian beef is safer. Those of us that know Mike Myers is Canadian suspected all along that SH has a soft spot for the Great White North.
Sandhusker
Well-known member
Shaft, "Even Sandhusker agrees that, apart from BSE, Canadian beef is safer. Those of us that know Mike Myers is Canadian suspected all along that SH has a soft spot for the Great White North."
Even though I've been accused of it many times, I've got absolutely nothing against Canadians. Facts are facts, the Canadian government takes food safety more serious than the US - although I'm not ready to put them in the role of being a model yet.
Even though I've been accused of it many times, I've got absolutely nothing against Canadians. Facts are facts, the Canadian government takes food safety more serious than the US - although I'm not ready to put them in the role of being a model yet.
bse-tester
Well-known member
So, a comment that really jumped out at me was the "God, in Her infinite wisdom." So, do I make the obvious assumption that I am conversing with a well educated woman or am I being presumptuous?
I will say that it is refreshing to "talk" with one who at least understands that science is ever evolving and that attitudes tend to change infinitely slower if at all.
I will send you something to mull over. PM your e-mail to me if you wish.
To answer your question - percentages so far have been higher than 99.9% with no false pos.
I will say that it is refreshing to "talk" with one who at least understands that science is ever evolving and that attitudes tend to change infinitely slower if at all.
I will send you something to mull over. PM your e-mail to me if you wish.
To answer your question - percentages so far have been higher than 99.9% with no false pos.
rkaiser
Well-known member
Shafty old boy. How's it going. Yes some males believe God is a woman Ron and others simply believe in the power of the Universe.
Talked with a fellow (man) yesterday who knows the Japanese market inside and out. Spends most of his time selling a competitive protein over there but hay - they gotta survive to.
He came at a couple of numb skull ABP boys in the room with a BULL ****, when they tried the old --"Japan is getting away from testing" routine. In Japan, the cities own the packing plants and cities are in Prefectures (kind of equivalent to our provinces or American states.) The feds in Japan have said that they are passing the responsibility of testing down to the Prefectures (sp) in an attempt to distract the mighty American warlord that says "You will submit to full OIE standards".
If Canada, or the good old US of A hopes to ever reach retail beyond the commodity beef sold in Walmart Japan and especially the most lucrative food service market --- we will have to test our product to the same standards as the Japanese currently test and WILL test for a long long time........
Talked with a fellow (man) yesterday who knows the Japanese market inside and out. Spends most of his time selling a competitive protein over there but hay - they gotta survive to.
He came at a couple of numb skull ABP boys in the room with a BULL ****, when they tried the old --"Japan is getting away from testing" routine. In Japan, the cities own the packing plants and cities are in Prefectures (kind of equivalent to our provinces or American states.) The feds in Japan have said that they are passing the responsibility of testing down to the Prefectures (sp) in an attempt to distract the mighty American warlord that says "You will submit to full OIE standards".
If Canada, or the good old US of A hopes to ever reach retail beyond the commodity beef sold in Walmart Japan and especially the most lucrative food service market --- we will have to test our product to the same standards as the Japanese currently test and WILL test for a long long time........
Shaft
Well-known member
SH,
If I don't tease you, who will? As a lifelong confirmed s-disturber, it is a responsibility that I take very seriously.
BSE-tester,
Moses was one of the most steadfast servants of God. When he was leading the children of Israel in the wilderness there came a point in time where they were all dying of thirst. God told Moses to command a rock to bring forth water. Moses spoke alright, but he also struck the rock twice with his staff and sure enough, water came forth. God said that because Moses struck the rock instead of just speaking to it as instructed, Moses would not live to enter the Promised Land.
How else can you explain that other than God must be a woman?
If I don't tease you, who will? As a lifelong confirmed s-disturber, it is a responsibility that I take very seriously.
BSE-tester,
Moses was one of the most steadfast servants of God. When he was leading the children of Israel in the wilderness there came a point in time where they were all dying of thirst. God told Moses to command a rock to bring forth water. Moses spoke alright, but he also struck the rock twice with his staff and sure enough, water came forth. God said that because Moses struck the rock instead of just speaking to it as instructed, Moses would not live to enter the Promised Land.
How else can you explain that other than God must be a woman?
bse-tester
Well-known member
I guess I have to believe the fact that when God created man, she was only kidding!!!!
RobertMac
Well-known member
Shaft said:
But only a woman would have rationalized this!!!
God created man is His image...if God was a woman, She would have created woman first, not from the rib of man! :shock: :wink:
Shaft
Well-known member
RobertMac,
You must be one of those deluded types that believes he controls his own destiny. I gave up on that idea long ago. My wife and daughter own me lock, stock and barrel. I'm deleriously happy with that set-up, I must admit. Why can't it work that way on a macro scale as well?
Kidding aside, the idea that God is male or female is a tribute to our seemingly endless collective arrogance. Who are we to attempt to define the form of God?
You must be one of those deluded types that believes he controls his own destiny. I gave up on that idea long ago. My wife and daughter own me lock, stock and barrel. I'm deleriously happy with that set-up, I must admit. Why can't it work that way on a macro scale as well?
Kidding aside, the idea that God is male or female is a tribute to our seemingly endless collective arrogance. Who are we to attempt to define the form of God?
bse-tester
Well-known member
People, if you want to get into some serious religeous conversations, please open a forum for that elsewhere.
Not to be disrespectful, but preaching the why's, where's, who did what and why and whether God is a woman or whatever is not what this thread is all about so please, take your pulpit(s) and set it up some place else so this thread can get back to that which it was designed for.
Not to be disrespectful, but preaching the why's, where's, who did what and why and whether God is a woman or whatever is not what this thread is all about so please, take your pulpit(s) and set it up some place else so this thread can get back to that which it was designed for.
