Japanese Consumers Reach Out To U.S. Beef

[Anonymous]

OCM,

What's wrong? Question too uncomfortable for you?

Where is your proof that Japanese consumers are demanding BSE tested beef in light of your poor little Creekstone defense?

BRING IT!

Your diversion dance is too obvious!



~SH~

 

[Sandhusker]

Quote:
OCM: "Not going to take the private industry deal with Creekstone to show what the Japanese wanted? You only want an answer as to the government position? I thought you claimed to be a private industry kind of guy!"


SH, "DIVERSION! Using your logic on "private industry", we should allow private companies to sell drugs without FDA approval."

A couple of huge holes in your logic, SH.
1) The FDA oversees drugs in the US, not Japan. Creekstone's tested beef was destined for Japan, not the US.
2) Tested beef not only was allowed in Japan, but was law.

Quote:
Sandbag: "Secretary Veneman certainly knows where it is, unless they don't write anything down in trade negotiations..... You can ask her about it when you ask what the context of her letter was."


SH, "DIVERSION! I'll take that as your admission that Japan never requested bse testing which would be confirmed by recent purchases of US beef without testing. WHAT I WANT TO BELIEVE ..... by Sandhusker "

You'll probably will take it that way as that is what you want to believe. However, that woud be grossly incorrect.


Quote:
Sandbag: "Have you figured out why a consumer might buy, and pay a premium, for organic product?"

SH, "Because they want a product that was produced without growth hormones or antibiotics. "

Why would they buy a product that was produced without growth hormones or antibiotics? What would be the perceived benefit? You can't say there isn't one because they are even paying a premium for it.

 

[Murgen]

2) Tested beef not only was allowed in Japan, but was law.

Untested beef was also allowed. The law applied to Domestic Japanese beef.

 

[Sandhusker]

2) Tested beef not only was allowed in Japan, but was law.

Untested beef was also allowed. The law applied to Domestic Japanese beef.

Because domestic had BSE..... like we do.... The point is the FDA has jurisdiction in the US, not in Japan or anyother foreign nation and tested beef was already established in Japan. SH is trying to compare illegal activity in this country with established and legal policies in another country. :roll:

 

[Tam]

2) Tested beef not only was allowed in Japan, but was law.

Untested beef was also allowed. The law applied to Domestic Japanese beef.

Because domestic had BSE..... like we do.... The point is the FDA has jurisdiction in the US, not in Japan or anyother foreign nation and tested beef was already established in Japan. SH is trying to compare illegal activity in this country with established and legal policies in another country. :roll:

If it was a Japanese law and that was the only way they would except beef, WHY did they rewrite their law? Why didn't they just state WE WILL ONLY TAKE YOUR BEEF IF YOU TEST IT???? :? Their actions were to change their law to reflect the test results they had gathered over years of 100% testing their herd. That was not the actions of the FDA or the USDA that was the actions of the JAPANESE GOVERNMENT. Just like the actions of the USDA are to change your import policies to REFLECTED THE NEW SCIENCE SURROUNDING BSE. That is the nice thing about some laws they can be rewritten to reflected the new knowledge gathered by the experts as in the OIE experts not the R-CALF wannabes experts.

 

[Anonymous]

1) The FDA oversees drugs in the US, not Japan. Creekstone's tested beef was destined for Japan, not the US.

Irrelevant! The point is, we have laws in the US that do not allow consumer fraud and the USDA will not allow private companies to participate in consumer fraud in foreign countries either.

2) Tested beef not only was allowed in Japan, but was law.

I have not seen the specifics on this law to know what aged cattle were being tested in Japan to know whether or not this is another of your many apples to watermelons comparisons.

Japan is accepting and has accepted non bse tested beef. How could Japan's concerns be more obvious than that?

Only a complete idiot would argue against actual Japanese consumer actions.

Sandbag: "You'll probably will take it that way as that is what you want to believe. However, that woud be grossly incorrect."

Bullcrap! If you had proof that Japan wanted bse tested beef, you would have provided it. Instead, we know Japan is accepting non tested beef. What a fool you are to argue against actions with cheap talk.

Sandbag: "Why would they buy a product that was produced without growth hormones or antibiotics? What would be the perceived benefit? You can't say there isn't one because they are even paying a premium for it."

Only a handful of consumers want growth hormone and antibiotic free beef. Why? Because they have probably been subjected to the lies of the anti beef organizations that R-CALF has aligned themselves with. "PERCEIVED" benefits of organic beef does not justify consumer fraud with bse testing. Nobody is hurt by organic beef. That's not the case with bse tests that create an illusion of safety that his not actually provided.


~SH~

 

[Mike]

SH wrote: Nobody is hurt by organic beef.

I wouldn't speak too soon. The current spinach recall pertains to organic labeled product.

 

[Sandhusker]

SH, "Bullcrap! If you had proof that Japan wanted bse tested beef, you would have provided it. Instead, we know Japan is accepting non tested beef. What a fool you are to argue against actions with cheap talk."

Mike posted the proof (Veneman's letter) twice. You won't accept it. If you won't accept anything from the Secretary of Agriculture, what can I offer as proof that you will accept.


Quote:
Sandbag: "Why would they buy a product that was produced without growth hormones or antibiotics? What would be the perceived benefit? You can't say there isn't one because they are even paying a premium for it."


SH, "Only a handful of consumers want growth hormone and antibiotic free beef."

You need to tell Walmart that. They're spending millions on an ad campaign advertising their organic product for that "handful of consumers". :roll:


SH, "Nobody is hurt by organic beef. That's not the case with bse tests that create an illusion of safety that his not actually provided."

So how would the Japanese get hurt by Creekstone's tested beef?

 

[Anonymous]

Sandbag: "Mike posted the proof (Veneman's letter) twice. You won't accept it. If you won't accept anything from the Secretary of Agriculture, what can I offer as proof that you will accept."

Hahaha! What a damn hypocrite. When Veneman says what you want to believe, then it's gospel. When Veneman doesn't buy the packer blaming rhetoric, then "ANN HAS TO GO". What a hypocrite. Like a typical R-CULTer, you pick and choose when your sources have credibility when it serves your purpose at the time.

Veneman's quote will not trump actual Japanese purchases of non tested beef, PERIOD!

Sandbag: " You need to tell Walmart that. They're spending millions on an ad campaign advertising their organic product for that "handful of consumers"."

Hormone free means hormone free.

"BSE TESTED" does not mean "BSE FREE" when it comes to cattle under 24 months of age.

APPLES TO WATERMELONS.

Sandbag: "So how would the Japanese get hurt by Creekstone's tested beef?"

If the Japanese consumer bought "BSE TESTED BEEF" they would buy it believing it was "BSE FREE". "BSE TESTED" does not mean "BSE FREE" when it comes to cattle under 24 months of age.


~SH~

 

[Sandhusker]

Quote:
Sandbag: "Mike posted the proof (Veneman's letter) twice. You won't accept it. If you won't accept anything from the Secretary of Agriculture, what can I offer as proof that you will accept."


SH, "Hahaha! What a damn hypocrite. When Veneman says what you want to believe, then it's gospel. When Veneman doesn't buy the packer blaming rhetoric, then "ANN HAS TO GO". What a hypocrite. Like a typical R-CULTer, you pick and choose when your sources have credibility when it serves your purpose at the time. Veneman's quote will not trump actual Japanese purchases of non tested beef, PERIOD!"

Nice diversionary rant. Back to the topic..... you asked for proof and it was given.


Quote:
Sandbag: " You need to tell Walmart that. They're spending millions on an ad campaign advertising their organic product for that "handful of consumers"."


SH, "Hormone free means hormone free. "BSE TESTED" does not mean "BSE FREE" when it comes to cattle under 24 months of age.
APPLES TO WATERMELONS. "

Again, you divert from the topic. I think more than "a handful" of consumers are buying organic.


Quote:
Sandbag: "So how would the Japanese get hurt by Creekstone's tested beef?"


SH, "If the Japanese consumer bought "BSE TESTED BEEF" they would buy it believing it was "BSE FREE". "BSE TESTED" does not mean "BSE FREE" when it comes to cattle under 24 months of age. "

You have a heck of a time staying on track, don't you. You want to try to answer the question again?

 

[Mike]

SH, "If the Japanese consumer bought "BSE TESTED BEEF" they would buy it believing it was "BSE FREE". "BSE TESTED" does not mean "BSE FREE"

What about beef that was to be labeled "BSE FREE" but WASN'T tested? :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Sandbag: "Nice diversionary rant. Back to the topic..... you asked for proof and it was given."

A quote is proof of nothing!

Sandbag: "I think more than "a handful" of consumers are buying organic."

Doesn't matter. Hormone free is hormone free. BSE TESTED does not mean BSE FREE.

Sandbag: "You want to try to answer the question again?"

Whether or not Japanese consumers get hurt does not justify consumer fraud. The Japanese consumer is hurt by believing "BSE TESTED" means "BSE FREE" when it doesn't.


~SH~

 

[Sandhusker]

SH, "A quote is proof of nothing! "

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: A classic SH statment from SH!



Quote:
Sandbag: "I think more than "a handful" of consumers are buying organic."


SH "Doesn't matter. Hormone free is hormone free. BSE TESTED does not mean BSE FREE."

Doesn't matter? I think it matters when you change your tune in a short period of time.

Who said BSE tested meant BSE free? You keep parroting that when I don't know of anybody who has said any different.


Quote:
Sandbag: "You want to try to answer the question again?"

SH, "Whether or not Japanese consumers get hurt does not justify consumer fraud. The Japanese consumer is hurt by believing "BSE TESTED" means "BSE FREE" when it doesn't."

They explain to me why consumers are not hurt when they believe hormone free is safer when it isn't?

 

[Mike]

SH wrote:A quote is proof of nothing!

A quote by the Secretary of Ag and Robert Zoeller (U.S. Trade rep who was actually doing the negotiating with the Japs) is proof of "NOTHING"?

My my, what have we come to? :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Sandbag: "Doesn't matter? I think it matters when you change your tune in a short period of time."

Who changed their tune? MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHERE IS YOUR PROOF THAT SOMEONE CHANGED THEIR TUNE?

Sandbag: "Who said BSE tested meant BSE free? You keep parroting that when I don't know of anybody who has said any different."

Oh quit being such a deceptive SOB. Why the hell would anyone buy "bse tested" beef if they didn't think "bse tested" meant "bse free"???

Sandbag: " They explain to me why consumers are not hurt when they believe hormone free is safer when it isn't?"

Do I really have to explain that to you?

Hormone free beef is not less safe than regular beef.

In contrast, "bse tested" does not mean "bse free" so it could be less safe.

Mike: "A quote by the Secretary of Ag and Robert Zoeller (U.S. Trade rep who was actually doing the negotiating with the Japs) is proof of "NOTHING"?"

You think those quotes carry more weight than ACTUAL JAPANESE CONSUMER PURCHASES???

My my, what level of ignorance have we come to?


~SH~

 

[Mike]

SH wrote:You think those quotes carry more weight than ACTUAL JAPANESE CONSUMER PURCHASES???

What you have to take in consideration is a "Timeline of Events".

The Japs cut us off in Dec of 2003. They didn't start accepting beef again until Dec 2005. The cut us off again in Jan of 2006.

The time period we were not shipping cost the beef industry BILLIONS.

Had the USDA allowed shipping tested beef in early 2004 we would have not allowed the Aussies to get their foot in the door.

Why the "ignorant" statement? Is everyone who doesn't see things like you do ignorant? :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Mike: "Had the USDA allowed shipping tested beef in early 2004 we would have not allowed the Aussies to get their foot in the door."

Bullcrap!

You have absolutely no proof that Japan would have accepted bse tested beef. IN CONTRAST, WE KNOW THEY ARE NOW ACCEPTING NON TESTED BEEF.

That dog won't hunt Mike!

Mike: "The time period we were not shipping cost the beef industry BILLIONS."

Because we had BSE and because we shipped Japan products that we had agreed not to ship them not because we would not test.


FACE THE FACTS!!!


~SH~

 

[Sandhusker]

Quote:
Sandbag: "Who said BSE tested meant BSE free? You keep parroting that when I don't know of anybody who has said any different."


SH, "Oh quit being such a deceptive SOB. Why the hell would anyone buy "bse tested" beef if they didn't think "bse tested" meant "bse free"???

For the same reason somebody would buy hormone free.


Quote:
Sandbag: " They explain to me why consumers are not hurt when they believe hormone free is safer when it isn't?"


SH, "Do I really have to explain that to you? Hormone free beef is not less safe than regular beef. In contrast, "bse tested" does not mean "bse free" so it could be less safe."

How is BSE tested beef less safe?

 

[Mike]

SH wrote:You have absolutely no proof that Japan would have accepted bse tested beef.

There was certainly enough proof to convince millions of people in the media AND at the USDA.

Why would the USDA deny Creekstone this practice if they thought the Japs wouldn't accept it anyway? They KNEW the Japs would accept it. That's why they put a lid on it.

Do you think it was because the USDA was trying to save Creekstone money? :lol: :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Mike: "There was certainly enough proof to convince millions of people in the media AND at the USDA."

What you want to believe will not trump the fact that Japan is importing non tested beef from 2 countries that have had bse.

Mike: "Why would the USDA deny Creekstone this practice if they thought the Japs wouldn't accept it anyway?"

USDA's responsibility was to tell the Japanese the truth about deceptive bse testing. Obviously they accomplished their goal of telling the truth about bse testing because Japan is not demanding tested beef.

Why do you continue to be an advocate for bse testing when that is obviously not what Japanese consumers are now willing to buy?

Sandbag: "For the same reason somebody would buy hormone free."

Wrong!

When consumers buy hormone free beef, they are buying hormone free. When consumers buy bse tested, AND THEY BELIEVE THIS MEANS BSE FREE, they are not getting BSE FREE. APPLES TO WATERMELONS.

Sandbag: "How is BSE tested beef less safe?"

By implying that it is bse free when it may not be.



~SH~