Just for the sake of discussion

[Anonymous]

I'm not against their proposal- in fact I support it, but what makes that group better than the next?-- why say they should have US beef when many others don't even have the choice......I agree with you that all US taxpayers dollars should be spent for US product if its available.

Everyone "has a choice". There are plenty of branded beef products available whereby the consumer can get anything they want. I am just saying that there is no reason for cattle producers to be burdened with the extra expense of labeling our beef as "USA-Raised Beef" when it doesn't mean a thing. It is just commodity beef, selling for commodity price, so why have extra expense that will never be recovered. Branded beef with COOL is "special" so the expense of labeling it as such will be recovered.

I disagree with you again Soap- Maybe you live in a cultured enough area to buy a branded beef- but about the only I've ever found in my area was CAB or Lauras Lean- both of which won't guarantee a US product...All others have to be special shipped in at a huge cost...I'd have to travel 150-300 miles to find a store that sells true branded beef- not really a quick jaunt to the corner store....

And they are at a cost many of the young families starting out, the elderly, the disabled, and food stamp person cannot afford...Many of which support US products and would prefer them if available- especially now with the health issues arising out of Mexico and Canada...

And I do not see the cost- it isn't there...All imported beef/cattle at this time are sourced to the country they come from, and that source is required to follow them thru to the retail (part of the Homeland Security law)-- all that is required is some truth in labeling that required that label to stay on for the consumer....

Even USDA when cornered came down about 10 times in their estimated cost- which is still way above what it actually will be according to private studies.....

 

[Jason]

I sell pounds the more the better..............

Ok to be more serious I support county of origin labeling. I do think with all the bse on the news consumers want to know where the animal they are serving is coming from. We recently ran out of meat and had to buy some in the store. Buying hamburger is a science you have to decide how much fat you want and then have no idea where it came from. That bothered me a bit.

But you still bought it.

 

[Northern Rancher]

Soapweed you are a wise fellow-nice to see not everybody is a closeminded as a couple of my favorite ranchers.net poster. Your original post was bang on the money.

 

[Tam]

Reread my previous post slowly.............we dont have to trade branded beef programs for M COOL, do you ?................good luck

I never said you did I asked you why if you want your beef labeled can't you get yours into a branded program. As labeling your High quality :wink: beef with a generic label of US raised beef puts your beef at the risk of being the same as the producer that doesn't care what he does with his cattle. Tell us just what that US raised label will do for you if the some of beef under that label gives all the beef under that label a BAD NAME? :roll:

"if " ""if "if" "if" if the dog hadnt stopped ta %#$%&&$# he woulda caught the jack rabbit,state some facts Miss Tam,anybody can create these hypothetical scenarios............good luck
PS Where did you learn that,the saskatchewan stock growers

No Haymaker I went to school in the good old US just ask Oldtimer. :wink: It is funny that you will not except my hypothetical scenarios but all we hear from you R-CALF's is If's.
If we import cattle from Canada we will be risking our herds health
If we import beef from Canada we will be risking human lives. IF IF IF Haymaker life is full of a IF . :roll:

 

[Manitoba_Rancher]

Tam,

Havent you figured out by now that Haymaker is full of it himself..... :wink:

 

[Tam]

Tam,

Havent you figured out by now that Haymaker is full of it himself..... :wink:

:lol: :lol:

 

[Tommy]

Soapweed...My Wilson boots are made with Mexican labor, but they are high quality boots. They suit me fine. My straw hat was made in Mexico. My handy-dandy cowboy shirt, complete with snaps, yokes, and pockets, was made in China. For twelve bucks at Walmart, I'm not complaining.

I don't think consumers are nearly as country conscious as we would hope them to be. If I'm not, how can I hold other consumers to a higher standard than I do myself.

How did you know where your hat, shirt, and boots came from Soapweed? Did you just guess?
Do you think all the branded beef will just disappear if-when M-COOL is inacted? Tyson sells all select beef in wal-mart, with water and flavor added. Will they stop doing this?

Reading your and mj's posts on this I get the feeling that you two think all American beef but branded is junk.

 

[HAY MAKER]

I never said you did I asked you why if you want your beef labeled can't you get yours into a branded program. As labeling your High quality :wink: beef with a generic label of US raised beef puts your beef at the risk of being the same as the producer that doesn't care what he does with his cattle. Tell us just what that US raised label will do for you if the some of beef under that label gives all the beef under that label a BAD NAME? :roll:

"if " ""if "if" "if" if the dog hadnt stopped ta %#$%&&$# he woulda caught the jack rabbit,state some facts Miss Tam,anybody can create these hypothetical scenarios............good luck
PS Where did you learn that,the saskatchewan stock growers

No Haymaker I went to school in the good old US just ask Oldtimer. :wink: It is funny that you will not

except

my hypothetical scenarios but all we hear from you R-CALF's is If's.
If we import cattle from Canada we will be risking our herds health
If we import beef from Canada we will be risking human lives. IF IF IF Haymaker life is full of a IF . :roll:

No "if's" Miss Tam "when" we import canadian cattle we risk herd health.
"when" we import canadian cattle we are creating a human health issue.................good luck
PS "when" you went to school in the good ole USA did they ever say any thing to you about the pledge of alligence ?
And the word is accept,as in Miss Tam will accept what Hay Maker says as truthful :wink:

 

[HAY MAKER]

I'm not against their proposal- in fact I support it, but what makes that group better than the next?-- why say they should have US beef when many others don't even have the choice......I agree with you that all US taxpayers dollars should be spent for US product if its available.

Everyone "has a choice".

There are plenty of branded beef products available whereby the consumer can get anything they want. I am just saying that there is no reason for cattle producers to be burdened with the extra expense of labeling our beef as "USA-Raised Beef" when it doesn't mean a thing. It is just commodity beef, selling for commodity price, so why have extra expense that will never be recovered. Branded beef with COOL is "special" so the expense of labeling it as such will be recovered.

Another burr under my blanket started gouging again yesterday while listening to the Derry Brownfield show. Once again he was harping that "ranchers don't sell beef, they sell cattle". What an ignorant statement. Any rancher that doesn't realize that his cattle are "beef on the hoof", isn't very smart. As ranchers, we need to do everything in our power to make sure that the cattle we raise go on to become the best BEEF that they can be. This includes giving shots only in the neck, handling the cattle with as little stress as possible, and doing anything else of a quality control nature. Derry Brownfield's "common sense coalition" sometimes seems like a common sense coagulation, with the common sense all clotted and no longer moving. :?

Soapweed,"choice" and the fact that the consumer is being deprived of it is what this fight is about .
I agree with your assessment of tending cattle to the best of our ability,but the fact is not all ranchers are a part of the beef industry,I realize there are ranchers selling beef on the grid,they choose to be part of the beef industry.
There are also ranchers selling at local sales barns where there ownership and obligations stop way before that steer is beef.
I believe if you did some checking you might be pleasantly surprised at labeling costs to the rancher.
Labeling costs are just a smoke screen to stall M COOL,you know why packers dont want M COOL and it aint labeling costs...........good luck

 

[Soapweed]

.

How did you know where your hat, shirt, and boots came from Soapweed? Did you just guess?

For years, I ordered my Wilson boots from the Bowman Wilson Boots headquarters at Livingston, Montana. The boots were made to measure, and I assumed that they were made right there in Montana. I'll admit to being somewhat disappointed when I finally figured out that they were actually sub-contracted out and made in Mexico. But, hey, they make a good boot that stands up to a lot of hard use and looks good while doing it. I don't know of any American-made boot that can hold a candle to them for looks, price, and desirability.

Do you think all the branded beef will just disappear if-when M-COOL is inacted? Tyson sells all select beef in wal-mart, with water and flavor added. Will they stop doing this?

Reading your and mj's posts on this I get the feeling that you two think all American beef but branded is junk.

No, the branded beef will not just disappear if M-COOL is inacted, but if M-COOL goes into effect it will just be an added expense and an exercise in futility.

Tyson will stop selling their beef in Walmart when consumers quit buying it.

My point on non-branded beef is that it is commodity beef, selling for commodity price. Country of origin labeling will not add a bit of value, and it will be an added expense and unrecoverable cost to the producer.

 

[HAY MAKER]

.

How did you know where your hat, shirt, and boots came from Soapweed? Did you just guess?

For years, I ordered my Wilson boots from the Bowman Wilson Boots headquarters at Livingston, Montana. The boots were made to measure, and I assumed that they were made right there in Montana. I'll admit to being somewhat disappointed when I finally figured out that they were actually sub-contracted out and made in Mexico. But, hey, they make a good boot that stands up to a lot of hard use and looks good while doing it. I don't know of any American-made boot that can hold a candle to them for looks, price, and desirability.

Do you think all the branded beef will just disappear if-when M-COOL is inacted? Tyson sells all select beef in wal-mart, with water and flavor added. Will they stop doing this?

Reading your and mj's posts on this I get the feeling that you two think all American beef but branded is junk.

No, the branded beef will not just disappear if M-COOL is inacted, but if M-COOL goes into effect it will just be an added expense and an exercise in futility.

Tyson will stop selling their beef in Walmart when consumers quit buying it.

My point on non-branded beef is that it is commodity beef, selling for commodity price. Country of origin labeling will not add a bit of value, and it will be an added expense and unrecoverable cost to the producer.

Soap, I know alot of Canadian ranchers that are grinning about that statement.
When the border was clamped tight every house wife in canada had her freezer full of that ole Maple leaf beef as a show of solidarity,wonder how she knew which package to buy ?..............good luck

 

[Anonymous]

Soap- Your so hung up on the cost of COOL- What do you think the cost of M-ID will be that NCBA is pushing thru with all their might :???: ...I guarantee it will cost producers 10 times more than implementing M-COOL (and when you figure in the whole building of a new government bureaucracy to operate and oversee it- the cost could be much more) - and will guarantee the consumer absolutely no more traceback as the plan is to allow the Packers to throw away the tag at the kill floor door.....

Since we had a gift certificate that was given to us as an anniversary gift--I would have bought a couple hundred dollars of beef products off that Schwann's man if he could have guaranteed he wasn't selling me Mexican or Canadian beef- but since neither he, nor the district rep could, the wife spent it on fish...

 

[MoGal]

While I agree that everyone should be trying to raise the best quality of beef that they can, unless any of these programs incorporate TENDERNESS into the equation (this is what the consumer wants... price and tenderness is what they are looking for) then any program is not any better than cab (which cannot guarantee a consumer it is angus beef and the butcher will tell you, if asked, all he can guarantee is that it is black hided).

Also environment plays a big part, what works in Montana may not be feasible in Florida.

I firmly believe if TENDERNESS is added to any checkoff list that will cause consumers to look for that brand of beef in the grocery store.

just my .02

 

[Mrs.Greg]

.

How did you know where your hat, shirt, and boots came from Soapweed? Did you just guess?

For years, I ordered my Wilson boots from the Bowman Wilson Boots headquarters at Livingston, Montana. The boots were made to measure, and I assumed that they were made right there in Montana. I'll admit to being somewhat disappointed when I finally figured out that they were actually sub-contracted out and made in Mexico. But, hey, they make a good boot that stands up to a lot of hard use and looks good while doing it. I don't know of any American-made boot that can hold a candle to them for looks, price, and desirability.

Do you think all the branded beef will just disappear if-when M-COOL is inacted? Tyson sells all select beef in wal-mart, with water and flavor added. Will they stop doing this?

Reading your and mj's posts on this I get the feeling that you two think all American beef but branded is junk.

No, the branded beef will not just disappear if M-COOL is inacted, but if M-COOL goes into effect it will just be an added expense and an exercise in futility.

Tyson will stop selling their beef in Walmart when consumers quit buying it.

My point on non-branded beef is that it is commodity beef, selling for commodity price. Country of origin labeling will not add a bit of value, and it will be an added expense and unrecoverable cost to the producer.

Soap, I know alot of Canadian ranchers that are grinning about that statement.
When the border was clamped tight every house wife in canada had her freezer full of that ole Maple leaf beef as a show of solidarity,wonder how she knew which package to buy ?..............good luck

Don't change this into a Canadian vs. you guys thread Haymaker...thats really not the point of the discussion.The point is not all beef is greated equal...doesn't matter the country of origin...Soapweed has VERY valid points...for BOTH countries....

 

[katrina]

What bugs the hell out of me is that we have a renter next to our cows. They have every color of the rainbow for cows. Not only colorful, but bad quality. The bulls look like sharpie'(sp) dogs. Can clear a five wire fence in one single bound. And come fall their caves bring good money.. And here is ole dumb Katrina breeding cows with vertigo and working very hard to raise the best quality calves she can... I think it's time that quality stands for something..... Not with certain epds......... But plain ash long square quality cattle... Pounds across the scale isn't enough... Now off my soapbox and back to what I was doing.......[/b]

 

[Manitoba_Rancher]

Soap- Your so hung up on the cost of COOL- What do you think the cost of M-ID will be that NCBA is pushing thru with all their might :???: ...I guarantee it will cost producers 10 times more than implementing M-COOL (and when you figure in the whole building of a new government bureaucracy to operate and oversee it- the cost could be much more) - and will guarantee the consumer absolutely no more traceback as the plan is to allow the Packers to throw away the tag at the kill floor door.....

Since we had a gift certificate that was given to us as an anniversary gift--I would have bought a couple hundred dollars of beef products off that Schwann's man if he could have guaranteed he wasn't selling me Mexican or Canadian beef- but since neither he, nor the district rep could, the wife spent it on fish...

Oldtimer-
Did they tell you where the fish came from? You have sure got a chip on your shoulder when it comes to Canadian beef havent you? Your a protectionist and the only way you can run our beef down is by saying it is diseased..... Probally safer than what you are raising there.

 

[Anonymous]

Soap- Your so hung up on the cost of COOL- What do you think the cost of M-ID will be that NCBA is pushing thru with all their might :???: ...I guarantee it will cost producers 10 times more than implementing M-COOL (and when you figure in the whole building of a new government bureaucracy to operate and oversee it- the cost could be much more) - and will guarantee the consumer absolutely no more traceback as the plan is to allow the Packers to throw away the tag at the kill floor door.....

Since we had a gift certificate that was given to us as an anniversary gift--I would have bought a couple hundred dollars of beef products off that Schwann's man if he could have guaranteed he wasn't selling me Mexican or Canadian beef- but since neither he, nor the district rep could, the wife spent it on fish...

Oldtimer-
Did they tell you where the fish came from? You have sure got a chip on your shoulder when it comes to Canadian beef havent you? Your a protectionist and the only way you can run our beef down is by saying it is diseased..... Probally safer than what you are raising there.

I hadn't heard of your fish having BSE too- but with the powerful strain they just found I guess anything is possible -EH :???:

 

[HAY MAKER]

Soap- Your so hung up on the cost of COOL- What do you think the cost of M-ID will be that NCBA is pushing thru with all their might :???: ...I guarantee it will cost producers 10 times more than implementing M-COOL (and when you figure in the whole building of a new government bureaucracy to operate and oversee it- the cost could be much more) - and will guarantee the consumer absolutely no more traceback as the plan is to allow the Packers to throw away the tag at the kill floor door.....

Since we had a gift certificate that was given to us as an anniversary gift--I would have bought a couple hundred dollars of beef products off that Schwann's man if he could have guaranteed he wasn't selling me Mexican or Canadian beef- but since neither he, nor the district rep could, the wife spent it on fish
Oldtimer-
Did they tell you where the fish came from? You have sure got a chip on your shoulder when it comes to Canadian beef havent you? Your a protectionist and the only way you can run our beef down is by saying it is diseased..... Probally safer than what you are raising there.

I hadn't heard of your fish having BSE too- but with the powerful strain they just found I guess anything is possible -EH :???:

I never thought about that OT,you are right,pretty dang powerful strain of BSE across that medicine line,cows watering in a creek,start pooting it up,along comes Mr catfish eats cattle droppins,gets infected with BSE,travels many miles up stream into canada,a canuckle head has some lines set,catches Mr Catfish has a lil fish fry and throws the bones and head into his grinder/mixer for a lil protein eh ? ..........good luck

 

[Anonymous]

I hadn't heard of your fish having BSE too- but with the powerful strain they just found I guess anything is possible -EH :???:

I never thought about that OT,you are right,pretty dang powerful strain of BSE across that medicine line,cows watering in a creek,start pooting it up,along comes Mr catfish eats cattle droppins,gets infected with BSE,travels many miles up stream into canada,a canuckle head has some lines set,catches Mr Catfish has a lil fish fry and throws the bones and head into his grinder/mixer for a lil protein eh ? ..........good luck

But Canadian fish is now labeled as a Product of Canada to be sold in the US- not a bad product either...Canadian ranchers aren't that proud of their product tho to want that- they want to pass it all off as good old USA beef so they can sell it.. :wink:

 

[HAY MAKER]

I never thought about that OT,you are right,pretty dang powerful strain of BSE across that medicine line,cows watering in a creek,start pooting it up,along comes Mr catfish eats cattle droppins,gets infected with BSE,travels many miles up stream into canada,a canuckle head has some lines set,catches Mr Catfish has a lil fish fry and throws the bones and head into his grinder/mixer for a lil protein eh ? ..........good luck

But Canadian fish is now labeled as a Product of Canada to be sold in the US...Canadian ranchers aren't that proud of their product tho to want that.. :wink:

Well we just hafta continue gently coaching them to accept fair trade,they are like a lil bird learnin ta fly after they get the hang of it,they will be just fine.............good luck