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Just for the sake of discussion

To be fair Soapweed, Scott hasn't changed much. He responds in kind, for the most part.

I was here on Ranchers long before Lone Wolf, long before the board had many posts at all. I answered lots of questions, mainly from people with little cattle knowledge and generally basic how/what do I feed etc.

When the discussions started focusing on areas of the cattle biz I wasn't as familiar with, but knew were very important, Lone Wolf showed up. He divulged his real name to me early on, under the agreement I wouldn't blab it. I never did.

However as you have mentioned, his facts and relentless approach to the truth about packer concentration, made it so blamers focused on his identity rather than his message. No one has ever answered the simple question of: "If packers control the beef industry, why do prices go up?"

Recently with his temporary abcence, blamers went wild posting all kinds of lies and innuendo about everything from packers to, USDA to NCBA and just about everything in between.

SH's posts are not about changing the minds of those crazed people that think they have all the answers, it is to provide factual basis.

He has been made to twist a couple times when it has been 5-6 or even 7 against him just looking to find anything to discredit him. To his credit, the only thing they have found, is him missing a date on a bet, and his agressive style.

Love him or hate him, he is a real asset to Ranchers.
 
Then possibly a mid-life hormonal imbalance came along or something equally as upsetting. The ultimately cool Lone Wolf changed both his name and his attitude. He became ~SH~, and the nice Doctor Jekyll became the vicious, brutal creature Mr. Hyde.
Click to expand...

Maybe it was the attacks on the US cattle industry by RCALF that brought on the Jeckell and hyde?

I'd be a little irate if a US org. was attacking the safety of US beef too!
 
Sandhusker said:
Maybe it's because he's a flippin idiot! Should we take a poll and get a consensus?
Click to expand...

Maybe it's snips like that, that make him cranky. I know it gets old when a direct issue is posed and when it can't be answered truthfully it turns to a "poll" or a name calling battle.
 
Murgen said:
Then possibly a mid-life hormonal imbalance came along or something equally as upsetting. The ultimately cool Lone Wolf changed both his name and his attitude. He became ~SH~, and the nice Doctor Jekyll became the vicious, brutal creature Mr. Hyde.
Click to expand...

Maybe it was the attacks on the US cattle industry by RCALF that brought on the Jeckell and hyde?

I'd be a little irate if a US org. was attacking the safety of US beef too!
Click to expand...

The best way to get around those attacks is to address them, Murgen. The USDA doesn't seem to be willing to do it and that is one of the reasons that the organic movement is so strong. Some people want to buy safe, quality food products, not ones adulterated by the industry for their own bottom line.
 
Sandbag: "Maybe it's because he's a flippin idiot! Should we take a poll and get a consensus?"
Click to expand...

So predictable!

Takes his empty little cheap shot from his cheap seat and seeks solace in his little support group of blamers, who can't seperate fact from fiction either, to create another "ILLUSION" with a poll. Hahaha!

How could talk be any cheaper?

Why don't you prove that I'm an idiot Randy. Take a quote from me and bring the facts that prove me wrong. I don't care what issue it is.

Because you can't, that's why! You can't even win a bet without me doing the research and admitting to being wrong over a date. LOL!

I quiver in my boots at your mere presence. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzz!

You support R-CALF and R-CALF hasn't won a court decision yet and I am somehow the idiot??? Hahaha!

You support "M"COOL to segregate 5% of our current US beef consumption as "imported beef" but your chosen organization opposes "M"ID when "M"ID will be required to enforce "M"COOL an I'm somehow the idiot??? Hahaha!

You claim Japan wants bse tested beef from countries that have had bse while Japan is currently importing beef from Canada, that has had bse, without bse testing and I'm somehow the idiot??? Hahaha!

Talk couldn't be any cheaper than it is from you little ankle biter!

I have a better idea Sandbag, let's call it the "Sandhills challenge"

How about you and I debate these issues at a future Sandhill Cattlemen's Association meeting and let a group of unbiased college Ag students decide who the idiot is.

I'd bet you'd rather take a poll of your support group of blamers and create an "ILLUSION" wouldn't you? I thought so!



Soapweed, so noted!



~SH~
 
Jason, "To be fair Soapweed, Scott hasn't changed much. He responds in kind, for the most part."

:lol: :lol: :lol: That, Jason, is nonsense. He's the first person to go to childish name calling. When Rod first came on, SH was cordial to him and I told Rod it would only be a matter of time before he was a "blamer" and worse. SH proved me a prophet in less than a month!

Jason, "However as you have mentioned, his facts and relentless approach to the truth about packer concentration, made it so blamers focused on his identity rather than his message. No one has ever answered the simple question of: "If packers control the beef industry, why do prices go up?"

His "facts"? :lol: :lol: :lol: He's the only person to lose $100 here because he got called on his "facts"! :lol: :lol: Jason - OPEC.

Jason, "SH's posts are not about changing the minds of those crazed people that think they have all the answers, it is to provide factual basis."

Factual basis? :lol: :lol: :lol: Like his claim that Japan never asked for testing? His "deception" arguement? His "proof" on Tyson's Canadian/vs US packers profits that didn't include a dollar figure? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Jason, "He has been made to twist a couple times when it has been 5-6 or even 7 against him just looking to find anything to discredit him. To his credit, the only thing they have found, is him missing a date on a bet, and his agressive style."

It doesn't take 7 people to discredit him. He's done a masterful job of that himself. He's been run up a tree so many times he needs to change his moniker to "woody".

Jason, "Love him or hate him, he is a real asset to Ranchers."

How can a hyper-biased junior high punk on a suger high be an asset? :lol: Take away the "et" and you're on target!

Run with clowns, and you'll be a clown.
 
How can anyone reach a higher degree of stupidity than to claim that Japan wants tested beef when they are importing untested beef???

I am the only person who lost $100 in a bet based on the technicality of a date where I proved myself wrong and admitted to my own mistake. Sandbag contributed absolutely nothing to the bet and used Agman's word to prove me wrong then questioned that same word which proved my initial statement correct. The epitomy of a snake belly.

As far as the "deception" argument, Creekstone themselves admitted that their "BSE TESTS" did not guarantee "BSE FREE". Who needs further proof than that?

Anytime you want to debate me publicly Randy, just name the time and place. I suggest the Sandhills Cattlemens Association. Producers need to see firsthand your inability to back your positions. Let's do it big talker.


~SH~
 
Anytime you want to debate me publicly Randy, just name the time and place. I suggest the Sandhills Cattlemens Association. Producers need to see firsthand your inability to back your positions. Let's do it big talker.


~SH~

You said many times you won't debate in person as you will do it all here. Many offered to pay for your trip to debate Bullard or Leo and you ran. What is up?
 
~SH~ said:
How can anyone reach a higher degree of stupidity than to claim that Japan wants tested beef when they are importing untested beef???

I am the only person who lost $100 in a bet based on the technicality of a date where I proved myself wrong and admitted to my own mistake. Sandbag contributed absolutely nothing to the bet and used Agman's word to prove me wrong then questioned that same word which proved my initial statement correct. The epitomy of a snake belly.

As far as the "deception" argument, Creekstone themselves admitted that their "BSE TESTS" did not guarantee "BSE FREE". Who needs further proof than that?

Anytime you want to debate me publicly Randy, just name the time and place. I suggest the Sandhills Cattlemens Association. Producers need to see firsthand your inability to back your positions. Let's do it big talker.


~SH~
Click to expand...

You want to talk stupid? How about complety ignoring article after article written by the Japanese themselves, and a letter from the Secretary of Agriculture herself? I guess you don't see what you refuse to look at.

You lost the bet because you were wrong. You refused to double or nothing on your "original statement" that you whine about because you know you can't prove that either. By the way, the offer is still open to you to prove your original statement. The epitome of a wind-bag.

If Creekstone made that admission (which they did), how can there be deception? Everything is out in the open! How could I deceive you into buying someting that doesn't work if I said, "SH, this doesn't work"? You don't know what deception means.

Who would drive a block to hear you debate anything SH? All they have to do is look at your posts here and they would know all they would hear was an egotistical punk with a chip on his shoulder.
 
http://www.fsc.go.jp/sonota/measure_bse_injapan170520.pdf

Shows the Japanese believe testing does not provide any additional food safety.
 
Murgen said:
http://www.fsc.go.jp/sonota/measure_bse_injapan170520.pdf

Shows the Japanese believe testing does not provide any additional food safety.
Click to expand...

Your right- the Japanese government thinks that way--But they are not the ones buying and eating the meat-- the Japanese people- the consumers- want testing and don't want meat that isn't...

Thats why all thats slaughtered in Japan is still tested even tho the government mandate has expired....
 
Murgen said:
http://www.fsc.go.jp/sonota/measure_bse_injapan170520.pdf

Shows the Japanese believe testing does not provide any additional food safety.
Click to expand...

Murgen, what matters is the opinion of the Japanese PEOPLE. They are the ones who actually buy beef, not the Japanese government. The people, the actual customers, have said they want testing - there's no doubt about it.
 
Sandhusker said:
Murgen said:
http://www.fsc.go.jp/sonota/measure_bse_injapan170520.pdf

Shows the Japanese believe testing does not provide any additional food safety.
Click to expand...

Murgen, what matters is the opinion of the Japanese PEOPLE. They are the ones who actually buy beef, not the Japanese government. The people, the actual customers, have said they want testing - there's no doubt about it.
Click to expand...

:lol: :lol: :lol: We said the same thing at the same time :wink:
 
~SH~ said:
How can anyone reach a higher degree of stupidity than to claim that Japan wants tested beef when they are importing untested beef???

I am the only person who lost $100 in a bet based on the technicality of a date where I proved myself wrong and admitted to my own mistake. Sandbag contributed absolutely nothing to the bet and used Agman's word to prove me wrong then questioned that same word which proved my initial statement correct. The epitomy of a snake belly.

As far as the "deception" argument, Creekstone themselves admitted that their "BSE TESTS" did not guarantee "BSE FREE". Who needs further proof than that?

Anytime you want to debate me publicly Randy, just name the time and place. I suggest the Sandhills Cattlemens Association. Producers need to see firsthand your inability to back your positions. Let's do it big talker.


~SH~
Click to expand...

.....and you learned. You don't make any more bets on the nonsense you spout out anymore do you, SH? It seems you can be taught.
 
Ranch hand: "You said many times you won't debate in person as you will do it all here. Many offered to pay for your trip to debate Bullard or Leo and you ran. What is up?"
Click to expand...

I ran??? Hahaha!

Leo McDonnell used to post on this forum. I asked him a few questions he couldn't or wouldn't answer and he never showed up again. Leo likes to make statements, not answer pointed questions that require comittment or provide facts to back a position.

Mike Callicrate used to post on this forum, I asked him a few questions and he said he'd answer them if I'd reveal my identity. I revealed my identity and he ran.

Neither has been back since.

Twice I have questioned Bill Bullard. Once on the radio and once in public. Both times he diverted my question.

I RAN???? You bet ranchhand!

You guys seem to prefer the comfort of your "neck tie grabbing" lynch mobs so you can yell down your opponents and try to discredit them rather than debate the facts of the issues. I've seen it many times.

I never said I wouldn't debate in person but I'm not going to run all over the country at some alias's requests to debate the same issues that I can debate right here at my convenience.

Why don't you invite those guys here to debate the issues? Don't you want to see how well their arguments would hold up under scrutiny? That way everyone can debate the issues at their convenience and anyone can read them at their convenience. The arguments don't change in public.

The only reason I would love to debate Sandbag publicly is so everyone can see him squirm to avoid committing to a position. That would be worth my time. I'd pay my own way.

Since most producers don't frequent these forums, if you want to set up a full fledged debate between R-CALF and the NCBA, set it up. Pick a panel for each side and let's do it. I'd pick Agman because he knows the factors that affect cattle markets better than I do but I would be more than willing to participate.

Not a question and statement forum, a full fledged debate so your heros are forced to back their positions with factual information.

Set it up!

I'd love to ask Leo how Canadian beef can be "contaminated" and "high risk" due to Canada having bse in their native herd and how that same standard would not apply to the US. I'd love to see him dance around that.

I'd love to question Bullard on his captive supply conspiracy theories.

I'd love to have Mike Callicrate provide the proof to back his statement that Tyson stepped out of the cash market for 8 weeks.

I'd love to discuss the facts about Country of Origin Labeling as that is my favorite topic.

I think it would be very educational for producers to see your heros try to defend their positions with facts instead of empty rhetoric.


~SH~
 
Murgen said:
http://www.fsc.go.jp/sonota/measure_bse_injapan170520.pdf

Shows the Japanese believe testing does not provide any additional food safety.
Click to expand...

Murgen, here is your chance!!! Go get the Japanese to buy untested meat for their kid's school lunches. What an opportunity!!!! :roll: :roll:
 
~SH~ said:
Ranch hand: "You said many times you won't debate in person as you will do it all here. Many offered to pay for your trip to debate Bullard or Leo and you ran. What is up?"
Click to expand...

I ran??? Hahaha!

Leo McDonnell used to post on this forum. I asked him a few questions he couldn't or wouldn't answer and he never showed up again. Leo likes to make statements, not answer pointed questions that require comittment or provide facts to back a position.

Mike Callicrate used to post on this forum, I asked him a few questions and he said he'd answer them if I'd reveal my identity. I revealed my identity and he ran.

Neither has been back since.

Twice I have questioned Bill Bullard. Once on the radio and once in public. Both times he diverted my question.

I RAN???? You bet ranchhand!

You guys seem to prefer the comfort of your "neck tie grabbing" lynch mobs so you can yell down your opponents and try to discredit them rather than debate the facts of the issues. I've seen it many times.

I never said I wouldn't debate in person but I'm not going to run all over the country at some alias's requests to debate the same issues that I can debate right here at my convenience.

Why don't you invite those guys here to debate the issues? Don't you want to see how well their arguments would hold up under scrutiny? That way everyone can debate the issues at their convenience and anyone can read them at their convenience. The arguments don't change in public.

The only reason I would love to debate Sandbag publicly is so everyone can see him squirm to avoid committing to a position. That would be worth my time. I'd pay my own way.

Since most producers don't frequent these forums, if you want to set up a full fledged debate between R-CALF and the NCBA, set it up. Pick a panel for each side and let's do it. I'd pick Agman because he knows the factors that affect cattle markets better than I do but I would be more than willing to participate.

Not a question and statement forum, a full fledged debate so your heros are forced to back their positions with factual information.

Set it up!

I'd love to ask Leo how Canadian beef can be "contaminated" and "high risk" due to Canada having bse in their native herd and how that same standard would not apply to the US. I'd love to see him dance around that.

I'd love to question Bullard on his captive supply conspiracy theories.

I'd love to have Mike Callicrate provide the proof to back his statement that Tyson stepped out of the cash market for 8 weeks.

I'd love to discuss the facts about Country of Origin Labeling as that is my favorite topic.

I think it would be very educational for producers to see your heros try to defend their positions with facts instead of empty rhetoric.


~SH~
Click to expand...

SH with all due respect I have tried to set something like you descibed up,when I mention your name ,all I get is strange looks and laughs :???: ..............good luck
PS I aint givin up tho,I hope to see you in action some day :D
 
SH:I'd love to have Mike Callicrate provide the proof to back his statement that Tyson stepped out of the cash market for 8 weeks.

Econ: Perhaps you would like to take him to court on a perjury case instead of just talking about it?
 
Sandbag: "You want to talk stupid? How about complety ignoring article after article written by the Japanese themselves, and a letter from the Secretary of Agriculture herself? I guess you don't see what you refuse to look at."
Click to expand...

Articles and statements do not trump the fact that Japan has already accepted untested beef and their current negotiations regarding imports from bse countries hinge around source verification rather than bse testing.

You're the only one stupid enough to believe that statemetnts in articles trump Japan's actions.


Sandbag: "You lost the bet because you were wrong."
Click to expand...

My original statement that you called a lie was correct. Agman stated that and you thanked him for his honesty since it meant that I was wrong about calendar year 2004. You pick and choose what you wants to believe. You thanked Agman for his honesty but you picked where that honesty applied which says more about you than words can describe.

I provided the proof to back my original statement and you wouldn't accept it. No need to provide it now because you wouldn't accept it now either.

Did you prove me wrong? Of course not! You never do. All you ever have is cheap talk and a need to blame.


Sandbag: "If Creekstone made that admission (which they did), how can there be deception? Everything is out in the open! How could I deceive you into buying someting that doesn't work if I said, "SH, this doesn't work"? You don't know what deception means."
Click to expand...

THEY MADE THAT ADMISSION IN AN INTERVIEW, NOT ON THE DAMN PACKAGE OF BEEF.

If Creekstone included a disclaimer on every package of beef that stated, "BSE TESTED BUT NOT GUARANTEED BSE FREE", then you'd have a legitimate argument.

This argument is just as empty as the last hundred times you threw it out.


Sandbag: "Who would drive a block to hear you debate anything SH? All they have to do is look at your posts here and they would know all they would hear was an egotistical punk with a chip on his shoulder."
Click to expand...

Hahaha! As expected!

ALL FOAM AND NO BEER!

Sandbag's just smart enough to know exactly what would happen in a public debate. Facts and truth don't matter to blamers, all that matters is that they can blame something and share that with other blamers.


~SH~
 

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